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 Do any of you do a "Christ in the Passover" Jewish Seder at your church? |
brotherjames |
| Just wondering if any of you have had or are having one and what were your experiences? Jews for Jesus do them for local churches but there are many other ministries that do so also and some even do their own. Any experiences? |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
3/23/16 11:02 am
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| Guess not |
brotherjames |
| Or they're too busy stumping for Trump? |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
3/23/16 2:55 pm
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Brandon Bohannon |
We have done one on our own. We had about 140ish participate in it. It was a wonderful learning experience.
We aren't required to keep it as Gentile Christians but our congregation seemed to derive a lot from the experience.
_________________
Proverbs 3:5-6; John 13:34-35; Acts 1:8 |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 571
3/23/16 3:05 pm
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| Thanks Brandon |
brotherjames |
| Was just curious if anyone was doing these. We have had one for many years and it has become a major staple of our passion week activities. Seeing Christ and the prophetic fulfillment of the pascal lamb in the Jewish seder is a powerful time. We have a good meal, it takes about 2 hrs and do it on a wed. Nite as our midweek service. Just had ours tonight to about 150. Had a great time and many visitors who were curious and left blessed. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
3/23/16 8:40 pm
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| I have conducted several |
maqqebet |
Passover Seders for local congregations.
However, I use a Messianic Jewish Seder (order) to give the Passover Meal its complete context.
Always had good response.
_________________
The Hammer
Mi kamocah ba'elim Adonai
"Who is like you, Adonai, among the mighty?" (Exodus 15:11, CJB) |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1771
3/24/16 5:33 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| We have one thing Jewish in our services in Pikeville: Jesus! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
3/24/16 5:52 pm
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| I use a messianic haggedah (passover seder) |
brotherjames |
| and discuss the symbolism and prophetic fulfillment of Christ in the Passover. If you don't grasp the types and shadows of the old testament fulfilled in the new testament you lose a great deal of understanding of the magnitude of God's plan and provision fulfilled to us in Christ, in my opinion. |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 935
3/24/16 6:09 pm
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| OTCP, |
maqqebet |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | We have one thing Jewish in our services in Pikeville: Jesus! |
Well, why don't you call Him by His Jewish name. Jesus isn't a Jewish name. Hebrew doesn't even have an English equivalent for the letter "j".
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The Hammer
Mi kamocah ba'elim Adonai
"Who is like you, Adonai, among the mighty?" (Exodus 15:11, CJB) |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1771
3/24/16 6:18 pm
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Da Sheik |
We have done it before but not this year. Our congregation has always enjoyed it. We have a Messianic congregation that uses our facility on Saturdays. They are a great bunch. We don't charge them rent but we have always been blessed. We have a Russian congregation that meets on Sunday afternoons. Sometimes I sit in on it and I'm always blessed even though I haven't got a clue what they are saying  |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1865
3/24/16 6:57 pm
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| Re: OTCP, |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| maqqebet wrote: | | Why don't you call Him by His Jewish name. Jesus isn't a Jewish name. |
Cause he aint Jewish no more, he's got a glorified body. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
3/24/16 8:18 pm
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| Re: OTCP, |
maqqebet |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | maqqebet wrote: | | Why don't you call Him by His Jewish name. Jesus isn't a Jewish name. |
Cause he aint Jewish no more, he's got a glorified body. |
Oh, I see. When He received His glorified body, He is no longer Jewish and He took the English name Jesus!
Imagine that.
OTCP, sorry ol' timer that logic doesn't fly.
BTW, it doesn't matter to me if you refer to our Savior and Lord as Jesus... or Yeshua, or the Aramaic Yeshu'a, or a better English transliteration Yehoshu'a, or or Galilean pronunciation Yeshu, or try to pronounce the Greek Iesous, Latin Iesus, or the Original KJ Iesous.
But what does matter to me finding fault in your line of thought and smug attitude. Whether it is your intention or not [and I'm sure you'll try to offer some humble presentation protesting you are not] at times you can come across as a know it all and your position is always the right position.
Of course, in your defense, I'm sure the Apostle Paul referred to Him as Jesus.
_________________
The Hammer
Mi kamocah ba'elim Adonai
"Who is like you, Adonai, among the mighty?" (Exodus 15:11, CJB) |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1771
3/24/16 9:45 pm
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| Re: Thanks Brandon |
Brandon Bohannon |
| brotherjames wrote: | | Was just curious if anyone was doing these. We have had one for many years and it has become a major staple of our passion week activities. Seeing Christ and the prophetic fulfillment of the pascal lamb in the Jewish seder is a powerful time. We have a good meal, it takes about 2 hrs and do it on a wed. Nite as our midweek service. Just had ours tonight to about 150. Had a great time and many visitors who were curious and left blessed. |
Praise God! 
_________________
Proverbs 3:5-6; John 13:34-35; Acts 1:8 |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 571
3/24/16 10:45 pm
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| Re: OTCP, |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| maqqebet wrote: | OTCP, it doesn't matter to me if you refer to our Savior and Lord as Jesus... or Yeshua, or the Aramaic Yeshu'a, or a better English transliteration Yehoshu'a, or or Galilean pronunciation Yeshu, or try to pronounce the Greek Iesous, Latin Iesus, or the Original KJ Iesous.
But what does matter to me finding fault in your line of thought and smug attitude. Whether it is your intention or not [and I'm sure you'll try to offer some humble presentation protesting you are not] at times you can come across as a know it all and your position is always the right position.
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Mark, son, the ole timer is just aggravatin ya on this Jewish thing. While I am firmly convinced that the New Covenant believer needs nothing Jewish for salvation (e.g., observing the major feasts, prayer shawls, etc.), I know they is great benefit studying Judaic culture/custom and seein how the symbolism all relates to Christ. I study it maself an even use it fer preaching/teaching. Always with the knowledge that Christ is the fulfillment of ALL OT practice/methodology/etc.
But on this thing that I can "come across as a know it all and my position is always right," well, ats a little different matter. OTCP does not know it all, nor does he think he knows it all. Only God knows it all. We, on the other hand, are ever learning. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
3/24/16 11:04 pm
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| Re: OTCP, |
maqqebet |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | maqqebet wrote: | OTCP, it doesn't matter to me if you refer to our Savior and Lord as Jesus... or Yeshua, or the Aramaic Yeshu'a, or a better English transliteration Yehoshu'a, or or Galilean pronunciation Yeshu, or try to pronounce the Greek Iesous, Latin Iesus, or the Original KJ Iesous.
But what does matter to me finding fault in your line of thought and smug attitude. Whether it is your intention or not [and I'm sure you'll try to offer some humble presentation protesting you are not] at times you can come across as a know it all and your position is always the right position.
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Mark, son, the ole timer is just aggravatin ya on this Jewish thing. While I am firmly convinced that the New Covenant believer needs nothing Jewish for salvation (e.g., observing the major feasts, prayer shawls, etc.), I know they is great benefit studying Judaic culture/custom and seein how the symbolism all relates to Christ. I study it maself an even use it fer preaching/teaching. Always with the knowledge that Christ is the fulfillment of ALL OT practice/methodology/etc.
But on this thing that I can "come across as a know it all and my position is always right," well, ats a little different matter. OTCP does not know it all, nor does he think he knows it all. Only God knows it all. We, on the other hand, are ever learning. |
Oh, I'm not aggravated by your antics just making an observation.
_________________
The Hammer
Mi kamocah ba'elim Adonai
"Who is like you, Adonai, among the mighty?" (Exodus 15:11, CJB) |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1771
3/25/16 7:49 am
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| The Seder Jesus Observed... |
maqqebet |
Both the Jewish and Messianic Jewish Passover Seder (Order - the observation was much more than a meal) are rich in tradition that have been attached to the observation through the centuries.
Obviously, since some of these traditions come from later times and host-cultural influences (Jews dispersed/exiled), some of these traditions were not part of the same Passover observation Jesus and His disciples partook.
Two chief parts of the the present observation Jesus did not observe include:
The Roasted Shank Bone: Since the Temple's destruction sacrificing a lamb is not possible so rather than including lamb as part of the menu a roasted shank bone, Z'roah, is placed on the Seder Plate. It serves as a reminder of the 10th plague - the death of the firstborn. And it is a reminder they cannot offer the lamb sacrifice and observe the Passover properly until the Temple is restored and sacrifices can be offered.
The Roasted Egg: It is associated with mourning and serves as a reminder of the Temple's destruction.
The Gospel accounts do not include the full Seder but focuses upon the important portions observed that night. What was definitely included in the Passover observed by Jesus and His disciples included:
The Cups of Wine (3 or 4)
The 1st Cup of Sanctification - Luke 22:14-18
The 2nd or 3rd Cup of Redemption - Luke 22:20 (The New Covenant Ratified)
The Washing of Hands - probable time Jesus introduces washing of the disciples' feet, John 13:5-10
The Meal, which is not specifically depicted but certainly a part of the Seder. It was either during or at the end of meal that Jesus took the unleavened bread, broke and distributed it to the disciples and said "This is my body..."
The Sop - The Dipping of Bitter Herbs, Luke 22:21-22 (The Betrayal revealed)
The Hallel - The Conclusion singing Psalm 113-118, Matthew 26:30
_________________
The Hammer
Mi kamocah ba'elim Adonai
"Who is like you, Adonai, among the mighty?" (Exodus 15:11, CJB) |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1771
3/25/16 10:56 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
Hammer,
Interesting that they only use a shank now...
Did Jesus' last supper include a sacrificed lamb?
The reason I ask - Jesus asked someone else to prepare the meal. Did they get one?
Was a lamb supposed to be present,
was it present,
or was Jesus supposed to bring the lamb,
and did Jesus present himself as the lamb instead?
Thanks.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
3/26/16 5:14 am
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| NBF |
maqqebet |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | Hammer,
Interesting that they only use a shank now...
Did Jesus' last supper include a sacrificed lamb?
The reason I ask - Jesus asked someone else to prepare the meal. Did they get one?
Was a lamb supposed to be present,
was it present,
or was Jesus supposed to bring the lamb,
and did Jesus present himself as the lamb instead?
Thanks. |
Good question! The Gospels do not record Peter and John going to the Temple to present a lamb for sacrifice, and while it isn't always safe to assume anything, it stands to reason if they were to "Go and prepare the Passover for us..." (Luke 22:8), it would incorporate all the details needed at that time. The Passover meal would be incomplete without the roasted lamb.
I can see how some would have a hard time seeing Jesus partaking of a lamb if it was symbolic of His sacrificial death; yet, it was also a memorial of the Redemption of Israel.
Up until this time, Jesus had been faithful to follow the Biblical (not Pharisee) injunctions imposed by the Law of Moses (two feast in particular - Passover and Tabernacles), and even a non-Biblical feast, the Feast of Dedication (Hanukkah).
Among other things, Jesus was an observant Jew (His mother was Jewish).
Jesus presented the Unleavened Bread as His broken body and there is rich symbolism here. Originally the unleavened bread symbolized the haste in which the meal was prepared but "leaven" became a symbol for "the evil impulse of the heart."
Unleavened bread became a symbol for freedom from decay, thus Jesus was prefiguring His resurrection and symbolically partake of His resurrection life.
The eating of the Unleavened Bread and the Cup of Redemption became the focal point of the Gospel record. One pointing to the Resurrection Life sustained by "ingesting" the anticipated Resurrection of Jesus (see Romans 6:1f), and the Blood ratification of the New Testament (See Exodus 24, where Moses uses similar, if not identical language, vv. 8; also the context of a fellowship meal in which Yahweh attended).
_________________
The Hammer
Mi kamocah ba'elim Adonai
"Who is like you, Adonai, among the mighty?" (Exodus 15:11, CJB) |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1771
3/26/16 8:29 am
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