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Jesus' Seamless Robe Proof that He was RICH? Ludicrous!!!!!!!
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Post bonnie knox
Also, the divvying up of the garments was a fulfilment of prophecy:

Psalm 22:17-19

17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

19 But be not thou far from me, O Lord: O my strength, haste thee to help me.


John 19:23, 24

23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.

24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.
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3/21/16 4:12 pm


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Post Re: Jesus' Seamless Robe Proof that He was RICH? Ludicrous!!!!!!! Old Time Country Preacher
LonghornFan wrote:
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
More than a few woffies cite the seamless robe of Jesus, that the soldiers cast lots for, was a sign that Jesus was rich. They say he had to be rich to wear such a robe. This is absolutely false and ludicrous.

Chrysostom wrote that the detail is added to shew “the poorness of the Lord’s garments, and that in dress, as in all other things, He followed a simple fashion.”

Westcott, B. F., & Westcott, A. (Eds.). (1908). The Gospel according to St. John Introduction and notes on the Authorized version (p. 275). London: J. Murray.


This type of garment could be made by an ordinary weaver, so it need not have been expensive.

Newman, B. M., & Nida, E. A. (1993). A handbook on the Gospel of John (p. 587). New York: United Bible Societies.


I am not agreeing with the comments that you are attempting to dispute. However, what makes the commentators that you quote more credible than John Hagee? Why should their assessment have more validity than the opposing opinion? There is no exegesis of the scripture, just one persons interpretive opinion verses another's opinion.


LF, the sources I quoted are scholars, John Hagee is not a biblical scholar. He is a Bible teacher, but he is not a biblical scholar in the academic sense. The UBS "Handbook Series" that I quoted from is used by those who translate the Bible into various receptor languages. Chrysostom reflects an early church (late early church) view of the seamless robe.

Hang with Hagee if you must, as for me an my house, we hangin with the biblical scholars.
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Post Good... renewal
Bonnie. Good question indeed.

We know that they took his robe. The reason was it was different. They had plenty of rags around them all the time. They noticed his had value.

We know what the Word tells us about the entire setting. What we don't know is the why..Why was that robe so valuable? Why would they even want it at all?

Yes, the Word tells us what they did but why did they do it? For what reason?
They were fulfilling the Word but they did not know that they were.

I would never say he was rich and I will not be placed into a certain category as some like to place others.

I just state the facts and let it go at that..
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3/21/16 4:34 pm


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Post bonnie knox
It just dawned on me that I have a postcard with a picture of Jesus' seamless robe! Shocked
My neighbor is from Germany, and once on a visit back home, she had her little girl send my little boy a post card. It has the words, "Der Heilige Rock, Jesu Christi, Der Dom Zu Trier" on it and a picture of the Cathedral of Trier and a picture of a brown garment.
(I'm not weighing in right now on the authenticity of the relic, but just thought this was interesting.)
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3/21/16 4:38 pm


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Post bonnie knox
They actually took all of his clothes, divvied up into 4 parts. They cast lots on the robe so it could stay in one piece. So, were the rest of the clothes valuable, too, or did they typically just take all the clothes of the executed? [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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3/21/16 4:43 pm


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Post renewal
How many clothes did he have on at the time? Acts Enthusiast
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3/21/16 4:51 pm


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Post renewal
The clothes he had on must have been very bloody..

Why did they want them? Reason?

Why would they want any clothes from any person on a cross?
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3/21/16 4:55 pm


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Post bonnie knox
renewal wrote:
How many clothes did he have on at the time?


There must have been at least 5 pieces to make four portions and a robe.
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3/21/16 4:58 pm


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Post Cojak
Da Sheik wrote:
...

Regarding Jesus's wealth, let's apply the same logic when citing other examples. We also know that Jesus gave Peter instructions to go fishing so that they could pay the temple tax. When it came time to feed the five thousand men (and countless women and children ) Philip was perplexed at how they would ever acquire enough wages to feed the multitudes. I could go on, but I won't.


good points Thumb Up
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3/21/16 5:47 pm


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Post Re: Jesus' Seamless Robe Proof that He was RICH? Ludicrous!!!!!!! LonghornFan
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
LonghornFan wrote:
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
More than a few woffies cite the seamless robe of Jesus, that the soldiers cast lots for, was a sign that Jesus was rich. They say he had to be rich to wear such a robe. This is absolutely false and ludicrous.

Chrysostom wrote that the detail is added to shew “the poorness of the Lord’s garments, and that in dress, as in all other things, He followed a simple fashion.”

Westcott, B. F., & Westcott, A. (Eds.). (1908). The Gospel according to St. John Introduction and notes on the Authorized version (p. 275). London: J. Murray.


This type of garment could be made by an ordinary weaver, so it need not have been expensive.

Newman, B. M., & Nida, E. A. (1993). A handbook on the Gospel of John (p. 587). New York: United Bible Societies.


I am not agreeing with the comments that you are attempting to dispute. However, what makes the commentators that you quote more credible than John Hagee? Why should their assessment have more validity than the opposing opinion? There is no exegesis of the scripture, just one persons interpretive opinion verses another's opinion.


LF, the sources I quoted are scholars, John Hagee is not a biblical scholar. He is a Bible teacher, but he is not a biblical scholar in the academic sense. The UBS "Handbook Series" that I quoted from is used by those who translate the Bible into various receptor languages. Chrysostom reflects an early church (late early church) view of the seamless robe.

Hang with Hagee if you must, as for me an my house, we hangin with the biblical scholars.


Interesting. What qualifies one as a Bible scholar.
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3/21/16 7:42 pm


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Post Re: Jesus' Seamless Robe Proof that He was RICH? Ludicrous!!!!!!! Old Time Country Preacher
LonghornFan wrote:

Interesting. What qualifies one as a Bible scholar.



Scholarly research!
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3/21/16 8:45 pm


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Post Re: Jesus' Seamless Robe Proof that He was RICH? Ludicrous!!!!!!! Cojak
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
LonghornFan wrote:

Interesting. What qualifies one as a Bible scholar.



Scholarly research!


I like you dude, but that ain't a good answer.

All you ministers consider your work scholarly research. I'm sure mr. Hagee does.

For the record Hagee ain't my favorite preacher, but he does tell some good jokes, or used to.
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3/21/16 8:57 pm


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Post Re: Jesus' Seamless Robe Proof that He was RICH? Ludicrous!!!!!!! Old Time Country Preacher
Cojak wrote:
I like you dude, but that ain't a good answer.

All you ministers consider your work scholarly research. I'm sure mr. Hagee does.

For the record Hagee ain't my favorite preacher, but he does tell some good jokes, or used to.


Cojak, I agree bout the jokes. One a the best jokes I ever heard Hagee tell was at Jesus was RICH cause a his seamless robe. I don't think he meant it as a joke, but it was, cause it shore aint supported by the good Book.

I really cant help what ministers consider their work to be, but this you can be sure of, many if not most COG preachers aint doin substantive scholarly research to prepare for their teachin/preachin.

Dake's notes aint scholarly research.
Usin Strongs or Vines to prepare for preachin aint scholarly research.
Usin Andy Stanley or Rick Warren outlines aint scholarly research.
Preachin at ya church what the campmeetin preacher preached the week before aint scholarly research.
Runnin reference in a Thompson Chain Reference Bible aint scholarly research.
Repeatin what an anonymous source in the Knesset said aint scholarly research.

When I say "scholarly research," I'm talkin bout some very specific methodologies:

Original language exegesis
Gleaning from the best scholarship in the field
Using sources (men/women) who have invested their lives in mastering a very specific body of literature
Using the grammatical/historical method of hermeneutics
Using/citing primary sources
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3/21/16 10:57 pm


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Post renewal
Well. well..we are always wrong and a certain person is always correct, because they do research...

Question for this person....How many different parts of clothing did Rabbi's wear in Jesus time? How many did he wear? Can you name them?

My guess you have to do some research...The bottom half of your list, not the top of course..

And be sure to name your source so we can judge if it is correct...

Happy hunting...
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3/22/16 12:17 am


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Post Old Time Country Preacher
renewal wrote:
Well. well..we are always wrong and a certain person is always correct, because they do research...

Question for this person....How many different parts of clothing did Rabbi's wear in Jesus time? How many did he wear? Can you name them?

My guess you have to do some research...The bottom half of your list, not the top of course..

And be sure to name your source so we can judge if it is correct...

Happy hunting...


How many hairs was on the left side of a Rabbi's head? If ya multiply 4 blood moons by the number of threads in John Hagee's prayer shawl, then minus the number of tassels on the prayer shawl, then take it to the 7th power (because 7 is God's number of perfection) you got the answer.

That, my dear brothers/sisters is how many modern day "so called scholars" conduct scholarship.
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3/22/16 6:14 am


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Post bonnie knox
What's more Ole Timer, besides a lack of scholarly research, there is a lack of common sense. It's like when asked how many feathers are on the outside of a chicken, anybody in Pikeville can tell you, "All of them." I really wonder about some folks I've heard if they would even be able to use that much common sense. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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3/22/16 7:12 am


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Post Re: Jesus' Seamless Robe Proof that He was RICH? Ludicrous!!!!!!! DrDuck
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
Cojak wrote:
I like you dude, but that ain't a good answer.

All you ministers consider your work scholarly research. I'm sure mr. Hagee does.

For the record Hagee ain't my favorite preacher, but he does tell some good jokes, or used to.


Cojak, I agree bout the jokes. One a the best jokes I ever heard Hagee tell was at Jesus was RICH cause a his seamless robe. I don't think he meant it as a joke, but it was, cause it shore aint supported by the good Book.

I really cant help what ministers consider their work to be, but this you can be sure of, many if not most COG preachers aint doin substantive scholarly research to prepare for their teachin/preachin.

Dake's notes aint scholarly research.
Usin Strongs or Vines to prepare for preachin aint scholarly research.
Usin Andy Stanley or Rick Warren outlines aint scholarly research.
Preachin at ya church what the campmeetin preacher preached the week before aint scholarly research.
Runnin reference in a Thompson Chain Reference Bible aint scholarly research.
Repeatin what an anonymous source in the Knesset said aint scholarly research.

When I say "scholarly research," I'm talkin bout some very specific methodologies:

Original language exegesis
Gleaning from the best scholarship in the field
Using sources (men/women) who have invested their lives in mastering a very specific body of literature
Using the grammatical/historical method of hermeneutics
Using/citing primary sources


OTCP is right on here. Moonbeam (as in blood moons) Hagee is a master of eisegesis. This is what separates him and those who use the same approach to Bible reading (can't really call that study) from serious scholarship. A very great portion of most topics discussed on this board is pure eisegesis. I personally prefer a pure exegesis. This is the basis I use to divide the sheep from the goats on Actscelerate.
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3/22/16 7:17 am


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Post bonnie knox
Quote:
This is the basis I use to divide the sheep from the goats on Actscelerate.


Goats?!!
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3/22/16 7:24 am


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Post DrDuck
bonnie knox wrote:
Quote:
This is the basis I use to divide the sheep from the goats on Actscelerate.


Goats?!!


Question

goat
ɡōt/
noun
noun: goat; plural noun: goats

1.
a hardy domesticated ruminant animal that has backward curving horns and (in the male) a beard. It is kept for its milk and meat and is noted for its lively and frisky behavior.
synonyms: billy goat, nanny goat, kid
"a herd of goats"
a wild mammal related to this, such as the ibex, markhor, and tur.
the zodiacal sign Capricorn or the constellation Capricornus.
singular proper noun: Goat; noun: the Goat
2.
a person likened to a goat, in particular.
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3/22/16 7:38 am


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Post bonnie knox
I don't think of Acts posters as goats, unless, of course, you are using that as slang for Greatest Of All Time! Smile Wink Wink [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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3/22/16 8:22 am


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