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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: |
PS, I know nothing of Hanks "tactics" other than the three books I mentioned. |
Maybe you should learn something about it then - before patting him on the back for his latest hatchet job...which you happen to agree with this time.
My next book: "The OTCPification of Actscelerate". I just rewrote the "Halloween" storyline and exchanged Jason's name with "OTCP".
Everyone gets slashed.  |
You're still using a strawman argument, NB. Read the book and state "even one" sentence that is incorrect. Then we'll talk. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15566
2/19/16 4:48 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
I told you there is no need to read his stuff.
Thats like asking me to read some Hitler stuff...because he is right about some things. There is no need - because his worldview is diametrically opposed to,mine. Just because he's right every now and then means nothing. He is wrong about so much. A broken clock is right twice a day. But is still worthless.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
2/19/16 7:38 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
Hey oldtimer.
Anton Lavey has a book that says there is a devil. Since he is right on about that...maybe you would like to fill your mind with all of his writings.
_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
2/19/16 7:42 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | Poor Paul, he publically called these guys out over matters of the faith and their names are known for 2000 years now: 1 Timothy 1:19-20, holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.
PS, I know nothing of Hanks "tactics" other than the three books I mentioned. |
Having some fun with you OTCP but let's try not to compare an NT disciplinary correction from the esteemed Paul with that of Hank H.
He is no Paul!
I've baited you twice & no bite yet, Hank is in line with Iran & other haters of Israel, his words about church dynamics & paradigm shifts are full of general assumptive understanding but he hasn't applied them himself in ministry according to those whom he has worked for.
Dr. Kennedy distanced himself from him.
Dr. Walter Martin's family wants nothing to do with him.
Several ministry leaders avoid him like a plague due to his empty theology.
I hear you when you say you nothing about him but you have declared several times how great his books are. Now I happen to know that Ken Copeland has written some good books according to some people wouldn't you agree? I think Ken's message is limited & marginalizes the masses, but I wouldn't say he's not a Christian.
Now you are fundamentally against Ken Copeland because you know something about him & you don't like his 'woffie' message.
Some of us who know a lot about this guy Hank & we are telling you he's warped so maybe it's time you listen to a warning for once 
Hank doesn't pastor a church, Hank doesn't purport to lead an evangelical ministry that offers outreach for souls, Hank isn't on the front lines of ministry.
But Hank attacks from the couch like a Monday morning quarterback, he runs a radio show where he cuts people off who disagree with him, his vocabulary is used like a weapon so he can try to intimidate those who question his authority.
He, unlike Apostle Paul, has no authority to criticize or attack fellow believers.
Woffie ministers & followers believe in the saving grace of Jesus but yet you war against them like it's your mission to warn the rest of us about their dangerous message. I'm telling you they're harmless compared to this man who questions the validity of the books of Genesis & Job & who attends conferences to speak out against Israel.
Jesus said to pray for Jerusalem not tear her down with funding from terrorist.
I hope you return his books to his office in Charlotte with a note that calls him a phony!
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
2/19/16 9:41 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Dean Steenburgh wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | Poor Paul, he publically called these guys out over matters of the faith and their names are known for 2000 years now: 1 Timothy 1:19-20, holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.
PS, I know nothing of Hanks "tactics" other than the three books I mentioned. |
Having some fun with you OTCP but let's try not to compare an NT disciplinary correction from the esteemed Paul with that of Hank H.
He is no Paul!
I've baited you twice & no bite yet, Hank is in line with Iran & other haters of Israel, his words about church dynamics & paradigm shifts are full of general assumptive understanding but he hasn't applied them himself in ministry according to those whom he has worked for.
Dr. Kennedy distanced himself from him.
Dr. Walter Martin's family wants nothing to do with him.
Several ministry leaders avoid him like a plague due to his empty theology.
I hear you when you say you nothing about him but you have declared several times how great his books are. Now I happen to know that Ken Copeland has written some good books according to some people wouldn't you agree? I think Ken's message is limited & marginalizes the masses, but I wouldn't say he's not a Christian.
Now you are fundamentally against Ken Copeland because you know something about him & you don't like his 'woffie' message.
Some of us who know a lot about this guy Hank & we are telling you he's warped so maybe it's time you listen to a warning for once
Hank doesn't pastor a church, Hank doesn't purport to lead an evangelical ministry that offers outreach for souls, Hank isn't on the front lines of ministry.
But Hank attacks from the couch like a Monday morning quarterback, he runs a radio show where he cuts people off who disagree with him, his vocabulary is used like a weapon so he can try to intimidate those who question his authority.
He, unlike Apostle Paul, has no authority to criticize or attack fellow believers.
Woffie ministers & followers believe in the saving grace of Jesus but yet you war against them like it's your mission to warn the rest of us about their dangerous message. I'm telling you they're harmless compared to this man who questions the validity of the books of Genesis & Job & who attends conferences to speak out against Israel.
Jesus said to pray for Jerusalem not tear her down with funding from terrorist.
I hope you return his books to his office in Charlotte with a note that calls him a phony!
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Dean, I haven't said how great his books are (as in all his books). Accordin to Amazon, ole Hank has wrote a heap a books. What I said was that 3 of his books (I aint read all his other books an have no plans to read em) tackled the subject matter in a well laid out format, well cited and informative way. I'm not a big Hank proponent or follower. Ole John MacArthur has wrote some good material on some subjects, but at shore don't mean I agree with him on everything--cause I don't. Ole Hanegraaff might be as messed up theologically as a Jehovah Witness on Crack, I don't know, but then again, I aint out promotin him wholesale either. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15566
2/20/16 1:31 am
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| OTCP question |
Dean Steenburgh |
No no I never said all his books.
Question: Do you think any woffie guys write good books? I mean if you were to pick up a book & read it based on it's writing merit alone would you do it & give it a fair read & critique?
.
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
2/20/16 1:43 pm
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| Re: OTCP question |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Dean Steenburgh wrote: | No no I never said all his books.
Question: Do you think any woffie guys write good books? I mean if you were to pick up a book & read it based on it's writing merit alone would you do it & give it a fair read & critique?
. |
I can only answer this query in a hypothetical fashion. For example:
John MacArthur, Chuck Swindoll, David Jeremiah, Charles Stanley have all wrote excellent books on certain subjects. While I don't agree with these fellers in 100% a what they believe, some a their works is good. That said, if a woffie, for example, wrote a book on "How to be a better parent," an DID NOT include woffie theology, YES, I could give it a fair read & critique.
Ummm, has a woffie book ever been wrote what didn't integrate some kinda woffie teachin? |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15566
2/20/16 3:06 pm
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| Re: OTCP question |
Dean Steenburgh |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Dean Steenburgh wrote: | No no I never said all his books.
Question: Do you think any woffie guys write good books? I mean if you were to pick up a book & read it based on it's writing merit alone would you do it & give it a fair read & critique?
. |
I can only answer this query in a hypothetical fashion. For example:
John MacArthur, Chuck Swindoll, David Jeremiah, Charles Stanley have all wrote excellent books on certain subjects. While I don't agree with these fellers in 100% a what they believe, some a their works is good. That said, if a woffie, for example, wrote a book on "How to be a better parent," an DID NOT include woffie theology, YES, I could give it a fair read & critique.
Ummm, has a woffie book ever been wrote what didn't integrate some kinda woffie teachin? |
Thats a good question & I don't know, mostly because I don't buy their books nor do I buy books written by Hank H. or John MacArthur either. I do however enjoy Swindol, Jeremiah & others. I tend to sway clear of those who negate my pentecostal upbringing.
So using the hypothetical can you cite for me what specific woffie teaching is contrary to God's word? And don't say all of it cause then I know you're full of it haha
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
2/20/16 3:31 pm
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| Re: ...confronting "Christian" ministries? |
Ed Brewer |
You make my point precisely. Unite WITH WHAT? The HH thing is a canard - not my fight - but the problem I was and am addressing is the unrelenting chant for unity without first being willing to assess what we are uniting with. Unity in the Church presupposes orthodoxy of faith, and to simply open our arms wide to anyone who checks off a few humanistic boxes of familiarity is perilous indeed. I don't know Lakewood (loved JO's dad, btw) today, but I do know that some of the non-committal drivel that comes from there of late is nauseating to anyone who cares about the message of the Cross. A minister that refuses to deal with what Christ died to redeem His children from (sin, not poverty) is a hireling and not a pastor. To remain silent and congratulate such pandering insufficiency is tantamount to blasphemy. The Church is not and must not ever become simply a rosy respite from the ugliness of the world - it is an army with a battle to win and an enemy to overcome, and when one of it's Lieutenants loses sight of the goal it is the responsibility of the Body to hold him accountable lest those that look on be led astray.
| Dean Steenburgh wrote: | | Ed Brewer wrote: | It is absolutely vital that the Church speak up against heretical teaching (Jude) without personal vitriol (Titus 3), even to the point of identifying the perpetrators of heretical deceptions by name and making the distinction public for the purpose of exposing the choice (Romans 16:17-18). It is a basic duty of the Church, and the very essence of biblical fidelity. Theology is not the sole purview of the sequestered academic elites - it is intended to be worked out in the messy crucible of publicly engaged faith where the antiseptic light of day can bring consensus instead of confusion. All of us, like the sheep from whose biblical comparison we often recoil, have gone astray (Isaiah 53:6), and we need a clear, certain sound (1 Corinthians 14:8) to keep us sharply oriented to the right battle and promised victory.
Contrary to the apparent presumption of many who seem to prefer 'Kumbaya' to 'Onward Christian Soldiers', the fight for the heart of the Church and the purity of it's message was not to be found in confrontationless homogeneity (misappropriation of John 17 call for unity) - it was and is to be found in the revealing of HIS glory by sharing the 'faith once delivered to the saints'. When a prominent voice steers people away from that faith, it is the DUTY of those who love His appearing to 'contend' for that faith (Jude 3). It's the difference between sheep who are easily led astray (Isaiah 53:6) and Christian soldiers (2 Timothy 2:4) who press on to victory (Philippians 3:14).
BTW - this is not an endorsement of HH or anyone - simply a rebuttal to the idea that having the conversation in the open is inappropriate |
Hi Ed, there is a stark difference in having a conversation about the church & her millions of ministries vs the techniques HH uses to undermine any ministry or it's leadership simply because he doesn't agree with them.
Who appointed him to be the global ministry critic?
Just because somebody doesn't like Osteen doesn't mean you write a book to make millions based on your limited knowledge of said ministry. I mean, Hank doesn't work for Lakewood, never has & never will. His opinion is being used as a weight of truth when all he has is conjecture.
So what if Joel doesn't lead his church like others, he has a church that is NOT like others. It amazes me how many experts there are on church ministry related to Joel & the Lakewood Church. If he had 500 members nobody would know his name but since the church attendance is in the stratosphere he is the big target.
Some guys are more concerned about how others are doing or not doing ministry & that distraction alone has kept them from being effective in their own calling & ministry.
I think our critique should be kept more personal & less exposed so the world doesn't see the siblings feuding in the church.
We need to be more united & far less divided. We know a divided house cannot stand.
. |
_________________
....from Barney Creek to Bountyland through every open door
Last edited by Ed Brewer on 2/23/16 2:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
Friendly Face
Posts: 312
2/20/16 5:39 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
Ed, do you know for a fact that Joel refuses to address the impact that the cross can make in people's lives? I mean, you call their message drivel.
I have a friend who was there recently & from the parking lot to the seat they were treated with love & compassion. I'm told the worship was great & the message had an awesome challenge to it.
Why is it that we give credence to somebody like Hank Hanagrraff who speaks down about Israel & pentecostals & we hear guys taking sharp pokes at the nations largest Christian church?
Do you or does anybody else on this board have personal knowledge or proof of an underlying motive that separates the seeker from the Savior? Do you know for a fact that they don't confront evil & preach against sin? Please don't tell me you're basing your opinion on the telecast alone.
I'm not provoking a debate or argument, I'm asking does anybody have a legit reason or right to claim that Lakewood does not promote the work of the cross.
.
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
2/20/16 6:04 pm
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| Unity |
Change Agent |
The link below show speakers from many denominations coming together to advance the body of Christ. They are not at each others throat like some are on Acts. You see Assemblies of God, Church of God, Word of Faith, independents going to the same conference.
Do you have to be called to destroy ministries? Do you have to be called to be the judge when God is not even judging at this time? People who are fault finders will never be on the big stage such as this event. Its possible to love someone and not agree with them.
I say keep on loving with less judging.
http://empowered21.com/london-2016/
Give our tribe and Acts poster Bro Nick Park a hand. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1449
2/20/16 8:56 pm
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| Re: Unity |
Dean Steenburgh |
| Change Agent wrote: | The link below show speakers from many denominations coming together to advance the body of Christ. They are not at each others throat like some are on Acts. You see Assemblies of God, Church of God, Word of Faith, independents going to the same conference.
Do you have to be called to destroy ministries? Do you have to be called to be the judge when God is not even judging at this time? People who are fault finders will never be on the big stage such as this event. Its possible to love someone and not agree with them.
I say keep on loving with less judging.
http://empowered21.com/london-2016/
Give our tribe and Acts poster Bro Nick Park a hand. |
I like this!
Don't see any reason to condemn another ministry unless they are espousing some kind of open adamant offense against the gospel of Jesus.
He said if they be for me how can they be against me?
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
2/20/16 9:10 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
you fellers keep the thread goin if ya want, no need fer the ole timer to continue pressin his point/position on this here particular thread. So, I will leave the thread with this:
1. I aint read the vast majority a Hank's written volumes. In his other written works the ole boy might be closet serpent-seed Branhamite who is best friends with Dr. Shane ThD. I don't rightly know.
2. In regard to 2 wrote volumes (1. Christianity in Crisis: 21 Century; and Osteenification, which is a small volume detailing Osteen's woffie theology), hey, the ole boy has produced 2 well documented, well wrote, books. The only reason I knowed who Hank was is that his name popped up when I was Googlin woffie material.
3. As I said, I can't vouch fer his other books, but if you fellers will read CiC or Osteenification, then tell the ole timer what you don't agree with, lessen you a woffie, I'd be surprised if you didn't agree with 80-90% a the books content.
Love all ma Acts comrades. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15566
2/20/16 10:41 pm
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| My opinion on old Hank's writings |
roughridercog |
His writing style is direct and at times caustic. If you read him, you will find yourself at times tempted to throw the book across the room. Maybe it's because deep down you may be asking yourself, "Is he right and maybe I'm afraid to admit it?"
Just thinking out loud and inserting my two cents worth. 
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Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25306
2/21/16 9:51 am
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| Re: My opinion on old Hank's writings |
Dean Steenburgh |
| roughridercog wrote: | His writing style is direct and at times caustic. If you read him, you will find yourself at times tempted to throw the book across the room. Maybe it's because deep down you may be asking yourself, "Is he right and maybe I'm afraid to admit it?"
Just thinking out loud and inserting my two cents worth. |
I get that sort of feeling from an author when I'm inspired because somebody is pointing out the obvious that I should have been doing.
As opposed to Hank attacks anybody/everybody who doesn't agree with him. He condemns & verbally assaults anybody he chooses.
If this were Joseph Prince, Benny Hinn or Kenneth Copeland I don't think we would hear folks talking about how challenging their writing style is even though you don't agree with them.
There is no way you can despise these 3 personalities & give Hank a pass.
If you want a load of Hank then listen to the Bible Answer Man radio show & you'll get your fill.
Tom, for what it's worth I think a cunard is a talking point without any merit or maybe it's a rumor ...something like that.
.
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
2/21/16 10:58 am
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Da Sheik |
I think Robert Redford is the only person I have heard use "canard "in a sentence. As for Hank : I used to listen to his "Bible Answer Man" radio broadcast many years ago and found it arrogant and judgmental. I think Hank has had his own issues with integrity. If memory serves correctly , he was accused of plagiarism himself.
Having said that, I am no proponent of WoF theology. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1860
2/22/16 11:06 pm
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| sending back my spelling trophy |
Ed Brewer |
Tom Sterbens - giving a shout out to da Sheik for his correction to my egregious faux pas v-v the spelling of 'canard' -- I obviously need work on my thumb-typing -- - or a vacation.... I'm not sure which.
_________________
....from Barney Creek to Bountyland through every open door |
Friendly Face
Posts: 312
2/23/16 2:13 am
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wayne |
| Eddie Robbins wrote: | | Does attacking other Christian ministries good for advancing the Kingdom? Do you realize what non-Christians see when they hear of junk like this? They see Christians like we see the political mess. Just chaos. |
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Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1274
2/23/16 8:43 am
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| Re: ...confronting "Christian" ministries? |
wayne |
[quote="Dean SteenburghSome guys are more concerned about how others are doing or not doing ministry & that distraction alone has kept them from being effective in their own calling & ministry.
.[/quote]
I hear more critiques of other ministries than I see works from ministers. There is a heroine demon loose in our area and it has unleashed the demon of hepatitis C and AIDS in my area. I challenge any and all of the "ministers" to come and share the true Gospel with these people. These people that are bound by these addictions could care less about Osteen's theology or Hanks thoughts in fact they would simply appreciate a kind word, a prayer or assistance from anyone.
Folks, the "Harvest" is begging for us to engage and stop picking each other apart. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1274
2/23/16 8:50 am
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