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 Just Read "The Osteen-ification of American Christianity" by Hanegraaff |
Old Time Country Preacher |
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Nature Boy Florida |
Hannegraff - talk about your modern day Barnabas - always a kind word to say about everybody. 
Give me Osteen any day of the week.
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Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16641
2/18/16 4:57 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | Hannegraff - talk about your modern day Barnabas - always a kind word to say about everybody.
Give me Osteen any day of the week. |
Ifn ya gonna go ad hominem, NB, at least learn to spell the person's name.
Read the book an let the ole timer know what portions ya don't agree with. Then we can have a profitable discussion. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
2/18/16 5:35 pm
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| No more Hanegraaff for me |
JLarry |
When Hank worked for Mt. Paran, I pastored about 15 miles from Mt. Paran. I had him come to my church to teach a class on how to memorize Scripture.
Years later he wrote "Counterfeit Revival". He attacked the Brownsville Revival.
Hank would not be welcome to speak in a church I pastor again.
For the record I am not an Osteen fan either.
I believe is speaking the truth. I am concerned that far too many ministers do not have the courage to "speak the truth". We are admonished to speak the truth in love. When they realize we love them enough to tell them the truth they will accept it.
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Acts Mod
Posts: 3346
2/18/16 5:57 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Hanegraaff's book "Christianity in Crisis: 21 Century" is one of the best overall treatments of the word of faith movement in print. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
2/18/16 6:30 pm
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| Re: No more Hanegraaff for me |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| JLarry wrote: | When Hank worked for Mt. Paran, I pastored about 15 miles from Mt. Paran. I had him come to my church to teach a class on how to memorize Scripture.
Years later he wrote "Counterfeit Revival". He attacked the Brownsville Revival. |
What did Hank do at your church that made you want to never have him again, Dr. JL?
Did Hank attack the Brownsville revival, or the excess of the Brownsville revival? Yes, I read the entire book. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
2/18/16 6:33 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
No thanks old timer. I have had my fill of Hank Negativeagraff.
But knowing he is a great influencer of your life tells us a lot about you.
Where is his degree from? Surely he has a doctorate from a prestigious accredited university for you to glowingly commend his writings?
Does Hank believe in pre, mid or a post tribulation rapture?
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16641
2/18/16 7:24 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
I think the ole timer needs to do a little research on the man Hanegraaff.
He was led to the Lord through one of the Evangelism Explosion teams in Coral Ridge & eventually went to work for Dr. James Kennedy in the E.E. office. Dr. Kennedy did interviews explaining not knowing or understanding why Hank would attack the very ministry that shared the gospel with him in his apartment when he was in sin.
O.T. check out AnswersinGenesis.org & type in Hank's name. Ken Ham will help you understand a lot of what Hank really believes including his nearly disregarding the story of the Genesis account & other works of scripture.
Or simply go to Equip.org & type in his name but be prepared for a good read from leaders who use Hank's own words & paragraphs to help one understand this individual.
I would question his citizenship as an American, his ties to Muslim leaders, his disdain for Israel, his opinion on Pentecostals, his belief in the books of Job & Genesis, his theories on Dinosaurs & sea creatures & his motivation for tearing down any decent evangelical ministry that doesn't agree with him.
In short:
The man is goofy beyond description.
I agree with Nature Boy here, if Hank is one of your legit sources of enlightenment then maybe I better check out one of these degree mills here in Modesto after all, cause this don't look good on the ole timer.
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"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
2/18/16 8:40 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | No thanks old timer. I have had my fill of Hank Negativeagraff.
But knowing he is a great influencer of your life tells us a lot about you.
Where is his degree from? Surely he has a doctorate from a prestigious accredited university for you to glowingly commend his writings?
Does Hank believe in pre, mid or a post tribulation rapture? |
NB, son, are you on a vendetta agin the ole timer this evenin? 
I honestly don't know what ya mean about Hank bein negative, I aint never listened to him at much. I don't really know about all his writings, he has wrote a bunch. The three I've read (Osteenification; Christianity in Crisis; Counterfeit Revival) were clearly laid out, well researched/documented; an I agreed with 90% a what I read in these three books. I don't know about his other books, I only know the boy has a apologetics ministry so a lot a his works probly take on a polemic approach. Far as degrees, I aint never seen where he lists any degrees at all. He was ordained by Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel, was heavily involved with D. James Kennedy's ministry at one point. An yep, he's a preterist. The 3 books I commend him for have nothin to do with any a that. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
2/18/16 8:57 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Dean Steenburgh wrote: | | if Hank is one of your legit sources of enlightenment then maybe I better check out one of these degree mills here in Modesto after all, cause this don't look good on the ole timer. |
You boys is a hoot an a half. Hank as one of the ole timers "sources of enlightenment?" WHAT???????????????
I aint follered Hank's ministry enough to know what his whole theology encompasses, but let me make a little wager with ya. Read Hank's "Christianity in Crisis" which is a critique of the woffie movement and tell me what percentage ya don't agree with. "Osteenification" is a very similar little small book what deals specifically with Joel's woffie teachins. I can't help what Hank's full theology is, but the boy is spot on in them two books. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
2/18/16 9:04 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Dean Steenburgh wrote: | | if Hank is one of your legit sources of enlightenment then maybe I better check out one of these degree mills here in Modesto after all, cause this don't look good on the ole timer. |
You boys is a hoot an a half. Hank as one of the ole timers "sources of enlightenment?" WHAT???????????????
I aint follered Hank's ministry enough to know what his whole theology encompasses, but let me make a little wager with ya. Read Hank's "Christianity in Crisis" which is a critique of the woffie movement and tell me what percentage ya don't agree with. "Osteenification" is a very similar little small book what deals specifically with Joel's woffie teachins. I can't help what Hank's full theology is, but the boy is spot on in them two books. |
I listened to Dr Walter Martin for years & Hank is no Walter!
My dad has been a CoG pastor for 60 years & he thinks Hank might have a spiritual issue lacking in deeds, fruits & faith toward salvation.
I've read his books but you can hear the same regurgitation on his radio show.
Here is the deal - nobody appointed Hank to be the church ministry critic & I can't find his educational background other than where he worked & most of those places would never bring him back again, he's a pariah. Who cares what the woffles are doing, the disciples were worried about John's baptism but Jesus wasn't.
Let the woffles do their thing & the rest of us ...we'll do our thing.
One of my closest ministry friends is a woffie pastor but he's a solid guy who loves God & leads people to Jesus weekly with a church of about 5-600. They are not all the same. Another pastor friend is around the corner & he's with the IUPC. Many of these guys don't fall for all of the beliefs & mistakes of their current & former leaders. Hank doesn't speak for all of us thankfully & he has no idea who is doing a great work for God.
Hank is not somebody I would ever listen to nor would I apply his teachings. The reason I opened this thread was because I saw your name attached to his & I thought you were going to expose him a little more ...he ain't worth listening to. Keep in mind he's spoken at anti-Israel rallies sponsored by enemies of Israel.
Read up on him a bit 
.
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
2/18/16 9:54 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| My point, Dean, is that Hank IS NOT one a the ole timers sources of enlightenment. I believed ever single thing I believe now for I ever read his book "Christianity in Crisis." I do like the way Hank formatted this book because it was easy to follow. Beyond these 2-3 books by Hank, agin, I know little about him. So, to suggest that he is one of my enlightenment mentors is inaccurate. Nor do I know what his academic background is, but to my knowledge he aint claimin no fake docterate. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
2/19/16 12:38 am
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| Re: Just Read "The Osteen-ification of American Christianity" by Hanegraaff |
bradfreeman |
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Eddie Robbins |
| Does attacking other Christian ministries good for advancing the Kingdom? Do you realize what non-Christians see when they hear of junk like this? They see Christians like we see the political mess. Just chaos. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
2/19/16 6:47 am
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| ...getting the shears ready.... |
caseyleejones |
| ....do you beat first then shear the sheep OTCP?....or is it the other way around? |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11796
2/19/16 8:48 am
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| Re: Just Read "The Osteen-ification of American Christianity" by Hanegraaff |
Nature Boy Florida |
| bradfreeman wrote: |
I'll bet you did.
Got your next sermon series ready now? |
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16641
2/19/16 11:16 am
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| ...confronting "Christian" ministries? |
Ed Brewer |
It is absolutely vital that the Church speak up against heretical teaching (Jude) without personal vitriol (Titus 3), even to the point of identifying the perpetrators of heretical deceptions by name and making the distinction public for the purpose of exposing the choice (Romans 16:17-18). It is a basic duty of the Church, and the very essence of biblical fidelity. Theology is not the sole purview of the sequestered academic elites - it is intended to be worked out in the messy crucible of publicly engaged faith where the antiseptic light of day can bring consensus instead of confusion. All of us, like the sheep from whose biblical comparison we often recoil, have gone astray (Isaiah 53:6), and we need a clear, certain sound (1 Corinthians 14:8) to keep us sharply oriented to the right battle and promised victory.
Contrary to the apparent presumption of many who seem to prefer 'Kumbaya' to 'Onward Christian Soldiers', the fight for the heart of the Church and the purity of it's message was not to be found in confrontationless homogeneity (misappropriation of John 17 call for unity) - it was and is to be found in the revealing of HIS glory by sharing the 'faith once delivered to the saints'. When a prominent voice steers people away from that faith, it is the DUTY of those who love His appearing to 'contend' for that faith (Jude 3). It's the difference between sheep who are easily led astray (Isaiah 53:6) and Christian soldiers (2 Timothy 2:4) who press on to victory (Philippians 3:14).
BTW - this is not an endorsement of HH or anyone - simply a rebuttal to the idea that having the conversation in the open is inappropriate
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....from Barney Creek to Bountyland through every open door |
Friendly Face
Posts: 312
2/19/16 1:02 pm
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| Re: ...confronting "Christian" ministries? |
Dean Steenburgh |
| Ed Brewer wrote: | It is absolutely vital that the Church speak up against heretical teaching (Jude) without personal vitriol (Titus 3), even to the point of identifying the perpetrators of heretical deceptions by name and making the distinction public for the purpose of exposing the choice (Romans 16:17-18). It is a basic duty of the Church, and the very essence of biblical fidelity. Theology is not the sole purview of the sequestered academic elites - it is intended to be worked out in the messy crucible of publicly engaged faith where the antiseptic light of day can bring consensus instead of confusion. All of us, like the sheep from whose biblical comparison we often recoil, have gone astray (Isaiah 53:6), and we need a clear, certain sound (1 Corinthians 14:8) to keep us sharply oriented to the right battle and promised victory.
Contrary to the apparent presumption of many who seem to prefer 'Kumbaya' to 'Onward Christian Soldiers', the fight for the heart of the Church and the purity of it's message was not to be found in confrontationless homogeneity (misappropriation of John 17 call for unity) - it was and is to be found in the revealing of HIS glory by sharing the 'faith once delivered to the saints'. When a prominent voice steers people away from that faith, it is the DUTY of those who love His appearing to 'contend' for that faith (Jude 3). It's the difference between sheep who are easily led astray (Isaiah 53:6) and Christian soldiers (2 Timothy 2:4) who press on to victory (Philippians 3:14).
BTW - this is not an endorsement of HH or anyone - simply a rebuttal to the idea that having the conversation in the open is inappropriate |
Hi Ed, there is a stark difference in having a conversation about the church & her millions of ministries vs the techniques HH uses to undermine any ministry or it's leadership simply because he doesn't agree with them.
Who appointed him to be the global ministry critic?
Just because somebody doesn't like Osteen doesn't mean you write a book to make millions based on your limited knowledge of said ministry. I mean, Hank doesn't work for Lakewood, never has & never will. His opinion is being used as a weight of truth when all he has is conjecture.
So what if Joel doesn't lead his church like others, he has a church that is NOT like others. It amazes me how many experts there are on church ministry related to Joel & the Lakewood Church. If he had 500 members nobody would know his name but since the church attendance is in the stratosphere he is the big target.
Some guys are more concerned about how others are doing or not doing ministry & that distraction alone has kept them from being effective in their own calling & ministry.
I think our critique should be kept more personal & less exposed so the world doesn't see the siblings feuding in the church.
We need to be more united & far less divided. We know a divided house cannot stand.
.
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
2/19/16 1:34 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
Poor Paul, he publically called these guys out over matters of the faith and their names are known for 2000 years now: 1 Timothy 1:19-20, holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.
PS, I know nothing of Hanks "tactics" other than the three books I mentioned. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
2/19/16 1:58 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: |
PS, I know nothing of Hanks "tactics" other than the three books I mentioned. |
Maybe you should learn something about it then - before patting him on the back for his latest hatchet job...which you happen to agree with this time.
My next book: "The OTCPification of Actscelerate". I just rewrote the "Halloween" storyline and exchanged Jason's name with "OTCP".
Everyone gets slashed. 
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16641
2/19/16 2:23 pm
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