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clevelandgrad |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | My position in this great movement should not matter. My descriptions along side each individual is how the average member and the non-member view our movement. |
Are you speaking for others or just your anonymous self? How do you know how "the average member" sees these people?
Why should non-member views influence who we choose to lead our organization?
If you want "open dialogue," why post under a pen name? |
Mrs. Knox,
To answer your first question: both. To answer your second question: these people are around me all the time. To answer your third question: for fear of being labeled.
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QUESTIONS |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 59
1/27/16 10:02 am
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clevelandgrad |
| Brandon Bohannon wrote: | | clevelandgrad wrote: | Mr Bohannon,
My position in this great movement should not matter.
It doesn't. Position or title other than the fact that our polity only allows a vote by it's Ordained Bishops on these positions. I enjoy knowing the perspective of the person I am listening to. Just as you desire more info about the men in these positions, I desire to see what is in your heart.
My descriptions along side each individual is how the average member and the non-member view our movement. The average individual does not understand the suited up individual who works for a large christian organization making a large salary. They are being compared to those who operate the larger corporations.
You seem to know something of our organization but I am curious as to how you are able to so clearly define what the average individual thinks. I am an average individual. No one has asked me or polled me.
Have we become too heavenly/COG minded that we no longer view this movement from the eyes of what the world needs. These are merely view points and questions.
Mr Bohannon: do you view my post as an attack on the COG movement?
No. At least I can't really tell what you are doing yet.
If you do, you must view the worlds opinion of Church as a whole as an attack. Not sure what your role is in this movement but I wonder when was the last time you spent time with an addict or the homeless child in Los Angeles/NewYork/St. Louis/Miami? Do you defend these people as much as you defend this great family that you appreciate and love?
You opened by saying that your position doesn't matter, why does my personal experience matter? Anything I have done in life for His kingdom belongs to Him. He knows.
Sir,
I assure you that I am not trying to pick a fight or offend anyone.
Me either.
Are the front line leaders of the COG able to step back and take a long look at the world through the eyes of Christ? Are we able to put aside what we are comfortable with and go into the streets without it being a project that gets us some sort of affirmation from someone who is "important."
I love this. How do you suggest that we accomplish this?
Mr Bohannon, who do you like? Give me their name and some true information on them so that I might be able to check them out. Maybe, you are someone who should be on elected to the leadership of this great movment?
I like a lot of people. I am a nobody but I love Jesus and I love the little, loving, local church that I am a part of. I am also happy to be COG. We aren't perfect but it is where I have experienced Jesus and it is my family.
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Mr. Bohannon,
There are many people out there who simply want to be part of a family. The problem is, they are not like you and the idea of this family scares them and causes them to look at it the way I described above.
Maybe, we need a fresh perspective.
_________________
QUESTIONS |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 59
1/27/16 10:09 am
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Brandon Bohannon |
| clevelandgrad wrote: | | Brandon Bohannon wrote: | | clevelandgrad wrote: | Mr Bohannon,
My position in this great movement should not matter.
It doesn't. Position or title other than the fact that our polity only allows a vote by it's Ordained Bishops on these positions. I enjoy knowing the perspective of the person I am listening to. Just as you desire more info about the men in these positions, I desire to see what is in your heart.
My descriptions along side each individual is how the average member and the non-member view our movement. The average individual does not understand the suited up individual who works for a large christian organization making a large salary. They are being compared to those who operate the larger corporations.
You seem to know something of our organization but I am curious as to how you are able to so clearly define what the average individual thinks. I am an average individual. No one has asked me or polled me.
Have we become too heavenly/COG minded that we no longer view this movement from the eyes of what the world needs. These are merely view points and questions.
Mr Bohannon: do you view my post as an attack on the COG movement?
No. At least I can't really tell what you are doing yet.
If you do, you must view the worlds opinion of Church as a whole as an attack. Not sure what your role is in this movement but I wonder when was the last time you spent time with an addict or the homeless child in Los Angeles/NewYork/St. Louis/Miami? Do you defend these people as much as you defend this great family that you appreciate and love?
You opened by saying that your position doesn't matter, why does my personal experience matter? Anything I have done in life for His kingdom belongs to Him. He knows.
Sir,
I assure you that I am not trying to pick a fight or offend anyone.
Me either.
Are the front line leaders of the COG able to step back and take a long look at the world through the eyes of Christ? Are we able to put aside what we are comfortable with and go into the streets without it being a project that gets us some sort of affirmation from someone who is "important."
I love this. How do you suggest that we accomplish this?
Mr Bohannon, who do you like? Give me their name and some true information on them so that I might be able to check them out. Maybe, you are someone who should be on elected to the leadership of this great movment?
I like a lot of people. I am a nobody but I love Jesus and I love the little, loving, local church that I am a part of. I am also happy to be COG. We aren't perfect but it is where I have experienced Jesus and it is my family.
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Mr. Bohannon,
There are many people out there who simply want to be part of a family. The problem is, they are not like you and the idea of this family scares them and causes them to look at it the way I described above.
Maybe, we need a fresh perspective. |
What am I like?
_________________
Proverbs 3:5-6; John 13:34-35; Acts 1:8 |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 571
1/27/16 10:12 am
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clevelandgrad |
| Brandon Bohannon wrote: | | clevelandgrad wrote: | | Brandon Bohannon wrote: | | clevelandgrad wrote: | Mr Bohannon,
My position in this great movement should not matter.
It doesn't. Position or title other than the fact that our polity only allows a vote by it's Ordained Bishops on these positions. I enjoy knowing the perspective of the person I am listening to. Just as you desire more info about the men in these positions, I desire to see what is in your heart.
My descriptions along side each individual is how the average member and the non-member view our movement. The average individual does not understand the suited up individual who works for a large christian organization making a large salary. They are being compared to those who operate the larger corporations.
You seem to know something of our organization but I am curious as to how you are able to so clearly define what the average individual thinks. I am an average individual. No one has asked me or polled me.
Have we become too heavenly/COG minded that we no longer view this movement from the eyes of what the world needs. These are merely view points and questions.
Mr Bohannon: do you view my post as an attack on the COG movement?
No. At least I can't really tell what you are doing yet.
If you do, you must view the worlds opinion of Church as a whole as an attack. Not sure what your role is in this movement but I wonder when was the last time you spent time with an addict or the homeless child in Los Angeles/NewYork/St. Louis/Miami? Do you defend these people as much as you defend this great family that you appreciate and love?
You opened by saying that your position doesn't matter, why does my personal experience matter? Anything I have done in life for His kingdom belongs to Him. He knows.
Sir,
I assure you that I am not trying to pick a fight or offend anyone.
Me either.
Are the front line leaders of the COG able to step back and take a long look at the world through the eyes of Christ? Are we able to put aside what we are comfortable with and go into the streets without it being a project that gets us some sort of affirmation from someone who is "important."
I love this. How do you suggest that we accomplish this?
Mr Bohannon, who do you like? Give me their name and some true information on them so that I might be able to check them out. Maybe, you are someone who should be on elected to the leadership of this great movment?
I like a lot of people. I am a nobody but I love Jesus and I love the little, loving, local church that I am a part of. I am also happy to be COG. We aren't perfect but it is where I have experienced Jesus and it is my family.
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Mr. Bohannon,
There are many people out there who simply want to be part of a family. The problem is, they are not like you and the idea of this family scares them and causes them to look at it the way I described above.
Maybe, we need a fresh perspective. |
What am I like? |
Mr. Bohannon,
You are in the family.
_________________
QUESTIONS |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 59
1/27/16 10:14 am
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bonnie knox |
| clevelandgrad wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | My position in this great movement should not matter. My descriptions along side each individual is how the average member and the non-member view our movement. |
Are you speaking for others or just your anonymous self? How do you know how "the average member" sees these people?
Why should non-member views influence who we choose to lead our organization?
If you want "open dialogue," why post under a pen name? |
Mrs. Knox,
To answer your first question: both. To answer your second question: these people are around me all the time. To answer your third question: for fear of being labeled. |
The "average member" at my church doesn't know these people and probably hasn't even heard the names of most of them.
I actually asked 4 questions.
Anyway, when someone posts under a pen name to campaign for or against someone, I take what they say with a grain of salt. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/27/16 10:15 am
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clevelandgrad |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | clevelandgrad wrote: | | bonnie knox wrote: | | Quote: | | My position in this great movement should not matter. My descriptions along side each individual is how the average member and the non-member view our movement. |
Are you speaking for others or just your anonymous self? How do you know how "the average member" sees these people?
Why should non-member views influence who we choose to lead our organization?
If you want "open dialogue," why post under a pen name? |
Mrs. Knox,
To answer your first question: both. To answer your second question: these people are around me all the time. To answer your third question: for fear of being labeled. |
The "average member" at my church doesn't know these people and probably hasn't even heard the names of most of them.
I actually asked 4 questions.
Anyway, when someone posts under a pen name to campaign for or against someone, I take what they say with a grain of salt. |
Mrs. Knox,
My deepest apologies for not answering your 4th question: there are many who sit on our pews weekly who are not members of the COG. Our members are related to and friends with many who are not members of the COG. What are our members saying to these "non-members".
Mrs. Knox,
I am not campaigning, I am asking questions kind of like the non-members and I am sorry you are writing me off. But know this, like the non-members I will no longer pay attention to your opinions.
_________________
QUESTIONS |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 59
1/27/16 10:23 am
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | But know this, like the non-members I will no longer pay attention to your opinions. |
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[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/27/16 10:26 am
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Brandon Bohannon |
Fresh perspective will come at the ground level. Grass roots.
The local membership has already decentralized. Our little 300 member church in a rural community far from Cleveland doesn't have one individual outside of the lead pastor that is COG. The Declaration of Faith is public and taught. District and State programs are supported. Missions projects and trips are taken. We have been visited annually at least once by a COG official. Yet not one member is at our church because it is COG. We are living in a non-denominational nation and time period. Brand loyalty in general is gone.
To your point: if we are looking to Cleveland for fresh perspective and "change", we are looking in the wrong place. Serve Jesus where you are planted.
In my dream COG, Bishop Williams would stay put. He has navigated our organization through difficult economic times in the U.S. economy and in the COG reduction of TOT from 15% to 10%. We'd leave Bishop Hill in his place as he has engaged record fundraising in those same bad economic conditions. These are excellent global leaders. We would invest and lead revitalization at the local and district level. These are the boots on the ground. This is where relationship happens. The average person that you say you represent is most likely to experience family here. In my dream COG, we'd cut at least two executive positions to an Executive Committee of a GO, an assistant GO and a Secretary General. Great leaders would be allowed to pastor a church. Organizations larger than us successfully do this and it would do two things: allow us access to the best of the best and it would keep our leadership grounded in the current realities of the local church.
My dream won't happen. Not in the COG. But I am not bitter about it. There is much to love about the fellowship. Reformation and change can only happen with those that stay and engage. We can not affect change from the outside looking in. We can only engage when we do so with love and respect.
The Word says to know them that labor among you. I don't personally know many of the people at the International level. I don't know you, at least I'm not familiar with anyone named Clevelandgrad. Not a slam on pen names, pseudonyms or parodies, just my observation. But I do know those in my community and in the culture I live in. THAT is my family. I am thankful to be IN that family.
_________________
Proverbs 3:5-6; John 13:34-35; Acts 1:8 |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 571
1/27/16 10:40 am
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UncleJD |
This thread makes me 
please let it die the death it deserves |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
1/27/16 10:51 am
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| thank you |
clevelandgrad |
| Brandon Bohannon wrote: | Fresh perspective will come at the ground level. Grass roots.
The local membership has already decentralized. Our little 300 member church in a rural community far from Cleveland doesn't have one individual outside of the lead pastor that is COG. The Declaration of Faith is public and taught. District and State programs are supported. Missions projects and trips are taken. We have been visited annually at least once by a COG official. Yet not one member is at our church because it is COG. We are living in a non-denominational nation and time period. Brand loyalty in general is gone.
To your point: if we are looking to Cleveland for fresh perspective and "change", we are looking in the wrong place. Serve Jesus where you are planted.
In my dream COG, Bishop Williams would stay put. He has navigated our organization through difficult economic times in the U.S. economy and in the COG reduction of TOT from 15% to 10%. We'd leave Bishop Hill in his place as he has engaged record fundraising in those same bad economic conditions. These are excellent global leaders. We would invest and lead revitalization at the local and district level. These are the boots on the ground. This is where relationship happens. The average person that you say you represent is most likely to experience family here. In my dream COG, we'd cut at least two executive positions to an Executive Committee of a GO, an assistant GO and a Secretary General. Great leaders would be allowed to pastor a church. Organizations larger than us successfully do this and it would do two things: allow us access to the best of the best and it would keep our leadership grounded in the current realities of the local church.
My dream won't happen. Not in the COG. But I am not bitter about it. There is much to love about the fellowship. Reformation and change can only happen with those that stay and engage. We can not affect change from the outside looking in. We can only engage when we do so with love and respect.
The Word says to know them that labor among you. I don't personally know many of the people at the International level. I don't know you, at least I'm not familiar with anyone named Clevelandgrad. Not a slam on pen names, pseudonyms or parodies, just my observation. But I do know those in my community and in the culture I live in. THAT is my family. I am thankful to be IN that family. |
Mr. Bohannon,
Thank you for that post. You pointed out specifics about Bishop Williams and Bishop Hill and at the same time expressed your concerns and vision. Our leaders need to hear this from you personally. I know several from Cleveland check in on this board from time to time and monitor what is being said.
You stated: "Yet not one member is at our church because it is COG. We are living in a non-denominational nation and time period. Brand loyalty in general is gone. " This the membership of the church I attend. They are not loyal to COG and in fact I have been criticized for being too loyal to the COG. This mindset could prove to be our demise.
Mr. Bohannon,
Have you thought about proposing your ideas to be presented at the GA? I am sure there are those on this board that will help you bring it up.
Mr. UncleJD, I apologize that this thread is bothering you but I was taught at an early age to not eat what I don't like. Perhaps you should simply stop reading this thread.
_________________
QUESTIONS |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 59
1/27/16 11:41 am
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| Re: thank you |
UncleJD |
| clevelandgrad wrote: |
Mr. UncleJD, I apologize that this thread is bothering you but I was taught at an early age to not eat what I don't like. Perhaps you should simply stop reading this thread. |
Well I'll read it because I'm interested in the load of manure coming out of your keyboard. You come on with a new pen name and a grand total of 1 post and just start throwing gasoline around and lighting matches. That makes you a troublemaker sowing discord (exactly what people claim to hate about this board). If you want to say something, come straight out with it and own it. Otherwise, go troll somewhere else. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
1/27/16 11:49 am
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bonnie knox |
| Quote: | | ...but I was taught at an early age to not eat what I don't like... |
WUT? |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/27/16 12:06 pm
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| Leadership Differences |
Restorationman |
| Mr. Clevelandgrad, Dr. Hill has raised several thousand dollars to assist in keeping Missionaries from all cultural backgrounds and styles on the field I'd say he understands culture and this generation! However, this generation is looking for real and authenticity in leadership and he will and has done great with millennialist beause they love passion, liturgical truth that's lived out, and Care! In my opinion he has the full package by the fruit of his Ministry! Also, he has seen a 40 percent raise in church planting in these lat four years and that crosses all age, style, and geographic barriers! I'd like to say he's well connected with field and is a great Kingdom minded Leader! If we pray God will help him or whoever becomes our next General to create a climate where everybody that wants to a part of ministry can lead in their giftings and style of ministry to reach the Harvest! |
Friendly Face
Posts: 484
1/27/16 12:16 pm
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clevelandgrad |
Mr. UncleJD, You mad bro? Why the hostility. If I think something is "manure", I usually distance myself from it.
I have said nothing negative about anyone. I am simply asking questions.
_________________
QUESTIONS |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 59
1/27/16 12:17 pm
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| Re: Leadership Differences |
clevelandgrad |
| Restorationman wrote: | | Mr. Clevelandgrad, Dr. Hill has raised several thousand dollars to assist in keeping Missionaries from all cultural backgrounds and styles on the field I'd say he understands culture and this generation! However, this generation is looking for real and authenticity in leadership and he will and has done great with millennialist beause they love passion, liturgical truth that's lived out, and Care! In my opinion he has the full package by the fruit of his Ministry! Also, he has seen a 40 percent raise in church planting in these lat four years and that crosses all age, style, and geographic barriers! I'd like to say he's well connected with field and is a great Kingdom minded Leader! If we pray God will help him or whoever becomes our next General to create a climate where everybody that wants to a part of ministry can lead in their giftings and style of ministry to reach the Harvest! |
Mr. Restorationman, Thank you for that response. Do you mind giving examples of the 40% increase in church planting under his leadership?
Does anyone on this board know anything about the other leaders listed?
_________________
QUESTIONS |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 59
1/27/16 12:22 pm
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| Leadership Differences |
Restorationman |
| Mr. Clevelandgrad, sure no problem that have that information through World Mission's Office, World Mission's Web Site, and Facebook! Also, they have a list of the Churches as well. I hope that assists you in your search. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 484
1/27/16 12:40 pm
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| Leadership Differences |
Restorationman |
| Dr. Hill, was recently on the same stage with Dr. Leonard Sweet collaborating about relevancy to all generations with the Gospel. He is preaching several Youth Camps this year as well a several Camp Meetings he will need our prayers that God will touch young and old by the Holy Spirit! However, in my opinion at the end of the day if we do what we can in love and authenticity our impotent efforts will be empowered by the Holy Spirit and that will draw folks young and old to Christ! God will take care of all who desire to reach people with the Love of God! |
Friendly Face
Posts: 484
1/27/16 12:55 pm
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| Dr Williams & Dr. Tim Hill Interview |
Restorationman |
Hopefully this recent interview between Dr. Williams and Dr. Hill will exemplify the "beyond the pulpit" leadership ability both of these men exemplify and model.
https://vimeo.com/153245328 |
Friendly Face
Posts: 484
1/27/16 3:14 pm
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| Re: Dr Williams & Dr. Tim Hill Interview |
clevelandgrad |
| Restorationman wrote: | Hopefully this recent interview between Dr. Williams and Dr. Hill will exemplify the "beyond the pulpit" leadership ability both of these men exemplify and model.
https://vimeo.com/153245328 |
Mr. Restorationman, Thank you again for the information. Very impressive information.
_________________
QUESTIONS |
Hey, DOC
Posts: 59
1/27/16 3:32 pm
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Kyle Morrow |
Someone asked what has Tim Hill done to deserve the honor of being GO. In addition to have 8 years experience on the Executive Committee with 4 as 1st Assistant, let me give another reason:
When Dr. Hill was elected as director of World Missions, there was a $250,000 deficit in missionary funding as well as a loan portfolio that was $500,000 in deficit per year (this is not a slight on the previous administrations, but the result of a troubled economy.) The cut of the TOT also cut 1 million per year from the missions budget. I know for a fact that Dr. Hill did not take a salary for his fist year in office.
Since the 2012 Assembly, Tim Hill and John Childers have seen World Missions go from red to black. This is not a small task. While both these men would be missed from World Missions, the Church of God will benefit greatly having them on the Executive Committee.
_________________
Love. Grow. Serve. |
Golf Cart Mafia Soldier
Posts: 2397
1/27/16 3:45 pm
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