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 Why does the Confederate Flag resonate so with southerners? |
Aaron Scott |
Consider that I never met my great-grandfather, who fought in the Civil War. In fact, he died nearly 40 years before I was born.
Consider that I don't think slavery is acceptable, nor that the South was right about slavery.
So WHY do so many southerners, most of us having no real connection to those events of long ago, nor sympathy with the position on slavery, feel such affinity toward the Confederate Flag? And at the same time feel such "hostility" toward those who would want to remove the flag?
I'm serious when I ask this question. I really do not know why it matters to me, unless it is because I have somehow taken it to be a slap at the South, etc.
Anyone? |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6036
1/17/16 10:06 pm
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John Jett |
I think you hit on the answer in your question. I think it does represent the South. I think the South still carries the scars of being invaded by its own countrymen, having its economy decimated for nearly 100 years in some kind of retribution for having been invaded, etc... It might not have been you, but you carry the collective memory whether you like it or not (not Jungian in the metaphysical sense mind you, but in the cultural sense, through stories you probably heard as a child).
I just went on a trip to New York with my family (had a great time, lots of really interesting and nice people there as anywhere in America, but not as nice as the South). As we walked through Central Park we came up on the big golden statue of Sherman. I said to my family, "who wants to take a picture next to the murderer?" It just came out, oh well, no apology, its just part of our collective memory to this day (like you said it hasn't been that many generations yet, my great-grandfather was born during the war, and both sides of my family came up poor for generations after due to reconstruction).
Rallying against that flag feels like a rally against the South and stirs up feelings. Maybe it shouldn't. Probably it shouldn't. But it does. |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4955
1/17/16 10:45 pm
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| Re: Why does the Confederate Flag resonate so with southerners? |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | | WHY do so many southerners, most of us having no real connection to those events of long ago, nor sympathy with the position on slavery, feel such affinity toward the Confederate Flag? |
As a southerner I have absolutely NO affinity for the Confederate flag. It is part of our history, a part I can neither change, alter or correct. But the flag, I have no more affinity for the flag than I do country music. I would not blink an eye if both were gone tomorrow. So please, Aaron, don't include the ole timer in the "many southerners" who feel differently. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/17/16 11:17 pm
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Resident Skeptic |
Because we are the only region to have resisted Federal tyranny to the point of trying to form a new country, and having had to resist invasion in that effort. We were not engaged in "rebellion", but in a struggle as States to retain our sovereignty as states that we had never relinquished upon joining the union.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI
Last edited by Resident Skeptic on 1/18/16 5:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
1/18/16 4:02 am
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Eddie Robbins |
| The biggest problem with the flag is that it was used during the 50s and 60s as a symbol opposing integration. It was also used, and still is, by the KKK. Along with it being a symbol of fighting to keep slavery, most of our black brothers and sisters see it as a symbol of hatred towards them. There is no hatred in Christ and I cannot see Jesus flying a Confederate flag if He were here today. It's time to keep the Confederate flags in the museum. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
1/18/16 8:23 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
| It seems to be primarily a cultural pride issue, not unlike how many feel about their favorite football or basketball team. There is not usually any real thoughtfulness behind such a 'team spirit' mentality. In my experience in living in the Deep South for many years, typically, though not necessarily always, white supremacy (and hatred of blacks especially) is bound up in the pro-Confederacy mentality. Some try to say it is "Heritage, not hate," but one really must ask oneself, "What is the heritage of the Confederacy?" |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12804
1/18/16 8:52 am
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John Jett |
| Tom Sterbens wrote: | | John Jett wrote: | | I think you hit on the answer in your question. I think it does represent the South. I think the South still carries the scars of being invaded by its own countrymen, having its economy decimated for nearly 100 years in some kind of retribution for having been invaded, etc... It might not have been you, but you carry the collective memory whether you like it or not... |
Sort of like the way some African American people today feel about slavery, right? |
Granted, but that wasn't the question, and no I won't carry some white-guilt for it. Slavery was a human sin, carried on by all races.
btw, I've never flown one and the only ones I've ever owned were attached to a pretty cool orange car. Some people do fly them out of some racial hate, but I've seen the same groups flying the American flag. But overall, I've always thought of it as a sign of solidarity with the southern states.
btw, if you hold any past symbol of this country sacred, get ready to lose it too. I just saw this morning that people are rejecting texts about George Washington because he owned slaves. He will soon no longer be called The Father of Our Country. It won't stop with what you may agree with. Political Correctness is a disease. |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4955
1/18/16 9:11 am
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Quiet Wyatt |
| For what it's worth, I think the actions of Lincoln and of Northern Aggression and Reconstruction were absolutely terrible and manifestly unjust and unconstitutional. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12804
1/18/16 9:25 am
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bonnie knox |
| I don't fly the Confederate flag, but I might feel like doing so if I encounter one more Yankee who wants to tell me how they do it up North or who insinuates that a Southern accent is a sign of lower intelligence or that the stupid drivers on the ice are Southerners (when I think they're probably cocky Yankees who think that because they can drive in snow they can drive on ice while the true Southerners are home trying to stay warm) or that driving in the rain doesn't call for increased stopping distances or who thinks Southerners are more racist than Yankees or who thinks Southerners are just all around inferior people. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/18/16 9:50 am
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UncleJD |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | I don't fly the Confederate flag, but I might feel like doing so if I encounter one more Yankee who wants to tell me how they do it up North or who insinuates that a Southern accent is a sign of lower intelligence or that the stupid drivers on the ice are Southerners (when I think they're probably cocky Yankees who think that because they can drive in snow they can drive on ice while the true Southerners are home trying to stay warm) or that driving in the rain doesn't call for increased stopping distances or who thinks Southerners are more racist than Yankees or who thinks Southerners are just all around inferior people. |
Very well said. I think it applies to me as well. I'm willing to change the flag to something else (how about a gun?) as long as people see it as a sign of rebellion to an over-reaching government and a superiority-complex of a bunch of people who have inherited generations of family wealth as opposed to those of us who had everything burned just a generation or two before us.
A lot of folks around me fly the "don't tread on me" flag, but that's not quite a Southern distinctive. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3145
1/18/16 10:01 am
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bonnie knox |
I'm not sure I can see myself waving a gun instead of a flag.  |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/18/16 10:10 am
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UncleJD |
| bonnie knox wrote: | | I'm not sure I can see myself waving a gun instead of a flag. |
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Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3145
1/18/16 10:13 am
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sheepdogandy |
I was born, raised and still live a few miles south of Chickamauga battlefield.
I climbed on the cannons as a small boy. (A rite of passage)
I pass through it often.
I refuse to forget or belittle the sacrifices made there by both sides.
I am a Southerner, my ancestors fought and died for their country.
If some don't like it.
Tough!
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7304
1/19/16 9:49 am
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| Re: Why does the Confederate Flag resonate so with southerners? |
DrDuck |
The simple answer is that there are some of us who know with absolute certainty that the South was right in its cause. It was within its Constitutional rights to secede from the Union in protest of the breech of the rights that Constitutionally belonged to them.
The flag stands as a symbol of the South that fought for the preservation of the Constitution while the North foolishly fought to divest themselves of Constitutional rights.
| Aaron Scott wrote: | Consider that I never met my great-grandfather, who fought in the Civil War. In fact, he died nearly 40 years before I was born.
Consider that I don't think slavery is acceptable, nor that the South was right about slavery.
So WHY do so many southerners, most of us having no real connection to those events of long ago, nor sympathy with the position on slavery, feel such affinity toward the Confederate Flag? And at the same time feel such "hostility" toward those who would want to remove the flag?
I'm serious when I ask this question. I really do not know why it matters to me, unless it is because I have somehow taken it to be a slap at the South, etc.
Anyone? |
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Acts-celerater
Posts: 755
1/19/16 12:45 pm
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| Dr. Duck... |
Aaron Scott |
Was "our cause" REALLY about Constitutional issues...or was it, ultimately, the fact that the South wanted to retain slavery?
Another way to put it is this: Would there have been a war if there had not been slavery? |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6036
1/19/16 1:00 pm
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| Re: Dr. Duck... |
DrDuck |
Yes it was about Constitutional issues and yes slavery was a side issue and not a cause of the war.
There are various claims about the percentage of Southerners who actually owned slaves. Whatever the actual number, it was a very, very low number. Those who did not own slaves lived at an economic level not far above a slave. You will never ever be able, by any means you may be apt to devise, to convince me that poor white people were willing to leave their families to put their lives on the line for the cause of slavery and nothing more.
My great, great grandfather left his North Georgia farm to join the 38th GA Infantry. He spent the whole time of the war fighting with what was Stonewall Jackson's army division. His attitude toward slavery was demonstrated in his refusal to take a slave woman into his possession when his own father insisted that the do so. It would seem that his family was indeed a part of the small portion that did hold slaves; but He wanted nothing to do with it. Yet, when the war started, he joined multitudes of others like him who strove to preserve the Constitution as delivered by his ancestors.
| Aaron Scott wrote: | Was "our cause" REALLY about Constitutional issues...or was it, ultimately, the fact that the South wanted to retain slavery?
Another way to put it is this: Would there have been a war if there had not been slavery? |
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Acts-celerater
Posts: 755
1/19/16 6:09 pm
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| Re: Dr. Duck... |
Resident Skeptic |
| DrDuck wrote: | Yes it was about Constitutional issues and yes slavery was a side issue and not a cause of the war.
There are various claims about the percentage of Southerners who actually owned slaves. Whatever the actual number, it was a very, very low number. Those who did not own slaves lived at an economic level not far above a slave. You will never ever be able, by any means you may be apt to devise, to convince me that poor white people were willing to leave their families to put their lives on the line for the cause of slavery and nothing more.
My great, great grandfather left his North Georgia farm to join the 38th GA Infantry. He spent the whole time of the war fighting with what was Stonewall Jackson's army division. His attitude toward slavery was demonstrated in his refusal to take a slave woman into his possession when his own father insisted that the do so. It would seem that his family was indeed a part of the small portion that did hold slaves; but He wanted nothing to do with it. Yet, when the war started, he joined multitudes of others like him who strove to preserve the Constitution as delivered by his ancestors.
| Aaron Scott wrote: | Was "our cause" REALLY about Constitutional issues...or was it, ultimately, the fact that the South wanted to retain slavery?
Another way to put it is this: Would there have been a war if there had not been slavery? |
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Economic domination was the North's motive, pure and simple. The south did not need the north. The North's economy started collapsing with the secession of just 7 States of the lower south. The upper south did not secede until Lincoln called for troops.
_________________
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves UPCI |
Acts-dicted
Posts: 8065
1/19/16 7:02 pm
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| Re: Dr. Duck... |
skinnybishop |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | Was "our cause" REALLY about Constitutional issues...or was it, ultimately, the fact that the South wanted to retain slavery?
Another way to put it is this: Would there have been a war if there had not been slavery? |
Aaron, you already know that slavery existed in the North....even as the War Between the States was going on. C'mon man! There had to be other some other factors that led to war. I am not suggesting slavery was not an issue that led to the war...because that would be untrue. But the idea that the abolition of slavery was what the war was about is incorrect.
_________________
Eddie Wiggins
Last edited by skinnybishop on 1/19/16 7:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1055
1/19/16 7:44 pm
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| Re: Dr. Duck... |
DrDuck |
Yep! Just like all other wars; money is always the bottom pure root motive. Somebody dies, somebody else gets rich. But we deviate from the question asked.
| Resident Skeptic wrote: | | DrDuck wrote: | Yes it was about Constitutional issues and yes slavery was a side issue and not a cause of the war.
There are various claims about the percentage of Southerners who actually owned slaves. Whatever the actual number, it was a very, very low number. Those who did not own slaves lived at an economic level not far above a slave. You will never ever be able, by any means you may be apt to devise, to convince me that poor white people were willing to leave their families to put their lives on the line for the cause of slavery and nothing more.
My great, great grandfather left his North Georgia farm to join the 38th GA Infantry. He spent the whole time of the war fighting with what was Stonewall Jackson's army division. His attitude toward slavery was demonstrated in his refusal to take a slave woman into his possession when his own father insisted that the do so. It would seem that his family was indeed a part of the small portion that did hold slaves; but He wanted nothing to do with it. Yet, when the war started, he joined multitudes of others like him who strove to preserve the Constitution as delivered by his ancestors.
| Aaron Scott wrote: | Was "our cause" REALLY about Constitutional issues...or was it, ultimately, the fact that the South wanted to retain slavery?
Another way to put it is this: Would there have been a war if there had not been slavery? |
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Economic domination was the North's motive, pure and simple. The south did not need the north. The North's economy started collapsing with the secession of just 7 States of the lower south. The upper south did not secede until Lincoln called for troops. |
Last edited by DrDuck on 1/19/16 7:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Acts-celerater
Posts: 755
1/19/16 7:46 pm
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UncleJD |
Several of the Southern states seceded because of slavery, others because of the aggressive footing of the Federal government in response to secession, so slavery was a big part of the reason for secession (its in the declaration given by several states if you care to read them).
However, secession, not slavery was the cause of the war. Lincoln's own words spell it out clearly.
| Quote: | | If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it; and if could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it. … What I do about Slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save this Union. |
Clearly the war was not about slavery to Lincoln, slavery was to be a tool to preserve the Federal government supremacy by using it as leverage, either by an offer to preserve it, or as a threat to dissolve it. |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3145
1/19/16 7:51 pm
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