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 Perry Stone in Jacksonville Sunday night |
Nature Boy Florida |
Anyone going to hear him - and possibly hear about his new ministry training.
You coming old timer?
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16641
1/11/16 7:16 pm
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| Re: Perry Stone in Jacksonville Sunday night |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: |
You coming old timer? |
Umm, not till Perry retracts what I heard him preach live in 1982 bout the reason the dash follows the word sin in Exodus 32:32 (KJV) is cause the language there was untranslatable cause Moses was interceding to God in tongues for Israel. He taught it as truth, and has never retracted, corrected, said I was mistaken, etc., an all. He said a Jew in Israel taught him this. After readin scores a commentaries, journal articles, etc., NOT ONCE have I ever found this corroborated. Any solid researcher knows ya gotta cite verifiable sources to be credible. Now, either that secret source in the Knesset knows more than the world's most greatest evangelical linguistic scholars, or somebody is caterin to sensationalistic preaching. So ya see, NB, till this thing is retracted or corrected, I don't know that I could feel confident enough to believe other stuff whats preached. So, to answer ya question, nope, I'm stayin in Pikeville. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/11/16 9:38 pm
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Eddie Robbins |
| No |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
1/11/16 10:22 pm
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| Re: Perry Stone in Jacksonville Sunday night |
mytimewillcome |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Nature Boy Florida wrote: |
You coming old timer? |
Umm, not till Perry retracts what I heard him preach live in 1982 |
Hell hath no fury like an Old Timer scorned |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3658
1/12/16 12:32 am
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| So, old theologe ,... |
Mat |
So, old theologe, what means the "dash"?
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1988
1/12/16 8:39 am
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| Re: Perry Stone in Jacksonville Sunday night |
Nature Boy Florida |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | Nature Boy Florida wrote: |
You coming old timer? |
Umm, not till Perry retracts what I heard him preach live in 1982 bout the reason the dash follows the word sin in Exodus 32:32 (KJV) is cause the language there was untranslatable cause Moses was interceding to God in tongues for Israel. He taught it as truth, and has never retracted, corrected, said I was mistaken, etc., an all. He said a Jew in Israel taught him this. After readin scores a commentaries, journal articles, etc., NOT ONCE have I ever found this corroborated. Any solid researcher knows ya gotta cite verifiable sources to be credible. Now, either that secret source in the Knesset knows more than the world's most greatest evangelical linguistic scholars, or somebody is caterin to sensationalistic preaching. So ya see, NB, till this thing is retracted or corrected, I don't know that I could feel confident enough to believe other stuff whats preached. So, to answer ya question, nope, I'm stayin in Pikeville. |
Where did you hear that? At the great North Cleveland revival of 1982?
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16641
1/12/16 9:31 am
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| Yeah, OTCP, what DOES it mean? |
Aaron Scott |
| If you know it's not what Perry said, then please reveal your reasoning. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6039
1/12/16 10:37 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
NB, the place aint really important, other than to say I was a settin on the pew an heard Perry tell teach exactly what I described in the earlier post.
Mat/Aaron, you boys can't really be serious are ya? You want me to tell you the purpose of the dash in Exodus 32:32? A punctuation mark that was neither in the original Hebrew text of Torah or the Greek text of the Septuagint's Pentateuch? If you boys wanna take Perry's sensationalistic surmisings and conspiratorial speculations of a dash, set in juxtaposition to the most profound linguistic scholars God has given Evangelicalism, please help yourself. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/13/16 12:19 am
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Pastor Nations |
| deleted |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1085
1/13/16 1:59 am
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| OTCP... |
Aaron Scott |
I don't believe that the dash meant what Perry said. But that is my view. I wanted to know why YOU felt that way. Now I know.
BTW, a dash was not in the Aramaic/Hebrew, but was ANYTHING UNUSUAL there? |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6039
1/13/16 7:38 am
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| Don't shift the focus ... |
Mat |
OTCP,
Don't shift the focus, I was not endorsing Stone's take on the "dash", rather, since you have proclaimed him a heretic for his statement, I just wanted to know where you stand. As the old statement goes, “anyone can curse the darkness, but who will turn on the light?” So for the record, what is the official OTCP understanding of the “dash”?
MAT |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1988
1/13/16 8:26 am
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Da Sheik |
| Perry is a likeable and approachable guy. Very humble for someone of celebrity status. Take out all the sensationalism and secret sources and he is very engaging to listen to. And if we are going to take him to task for something he said many many years ago in error, then we need to be prepared to do the same. I would blush 10 shades of red to hear some of the sermons I preached 25-30 years ago. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1865
1/13/16 10:17 am
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| Moses' pause in his intercession - |
maqqebet |
| Quote: | וְעַתָּה אִם־תִּשָּׂא חַטָּאתָם וְאִם־אַיִן מְחֵנִי נָא מִסִּפְרְךָ אֲשֶׁר כָּתָבְתָּ
וְאִם־אַיִן |
Ve 'im 'ayin and if not
Asseveration: stating something earnestly or solemnly.
Exodus 32:32 (NASB95)
"But now, if You will, forgive their sin - and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!"
" - and if not"( וְאִם־אַיִן, ve 'im 'ayim). Jewish Commentator Rashi (1040-1105 A.D.) states that the passage is an elliptical verse - extremely concise in writing, and can be difficult to understand.
Elliptical verse: extremely concise in speech or writing, sometimes so concise as to be difficult or impossible to understand (Encarta Dictionary)
Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar seems to agree with Rashi's assessment. The elliptical effect is the result of the suppression of the main clause, "But now, if you will..." Further, Gesenius extends the meaning of וְאִם־אַיִן to be "if it not be the case."
אִם in this form is from the Hebrew that can be found in conditional sentences, and can be used to state something earnestly or solemnly.
Therefore, it would seem that the English translators add the hyphen to for literary effect in order to try to capture the emotion of Moses intercession.
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The Hammer
Mi kamocah ba'elim Adonai
"Who is like you, Adonai, among the mighty?" (Exodus 15:11, CJB) |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1771
1/13/16 10:18 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
Mat/Aaron, there is no official OTCP interpretation, as I aint the final authority in these matters, even though you boys is trying to project that I think I am. Aint the case at all.
The dash is simply a matter of grammatical structure. There is no hidden "anything." No Bible code. No hidden Hebraism(s). Nothing God hid there in the original manuscript an just revealed it in 1980 to them in the know.
Finally, these posts aint a attack on Perry. NBF asked if I was gonna go to the Jacksonville meetin, I said no and told him why. Perry is a likeable feller an I don't sense any arrogance about him. My one an only concern about "this type a ministry," no matter who it is, is the high percentage of pure speculation, set forth as deified truth, and the number of Pentecostals (laity an preacher boys) who hang on ever word, ever new book, etc., a guys like this (Perry, Parsley, et al) as though these fellers had a "Telephone to Glory, Oh what joy divine, an if ya really wanna hear from God, listen to these words a mine."
#ain't-happenin-in-Pikeville |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/13/16 10:34 am
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| maqqebet, |
bonnie knox |
I think the sticking point might be before you get to the "and if not" phrase.
Some versions use a comma after "wilt," so that there is a complete clause there: "If Thou wilt, [then] forgive their sins...." but the KJV doesn't have a comma and could be read as an introductory clause that is unfinished: "If Thou wilt forgive their sins..." [then what?]. In that way, someone might want to finish out the "then what" and be tempted to think the dash is in place of the "then what." |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/13/16 10:38 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Da Sheik wrote: | | if we are going to take him to task for something he said many many years ago in error, then we need to be prepared to do the same. I would blush 10 shades of red to hear some of the sermons I preached 25-30 years ago. |
I agree 1000% with ya sheik, an I'm in the same boat. In the ole timers young timer years, hey, I preached some stupid stuff. BUT, once I "seen the light" I corrected it an said I was wrong (imagine that). To this day I will periodically reference some foolish "Exodus 32:32 Moment" in my own life, and share in a sermon how God corrected my understanding, leading me further along the journey with him. Yep, we've all said/done stupid stuff in ministry. BUT, when after 35 years, it aint never been corrected, an ya still comin up with a continuum of new "Exodus 32:32 Stuff." Hey, that's the ole timers concern. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/13/16 10:39 am
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| Re: maqqebet, |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| bonnie knox wrote: | I think the sticking point might be before you get to the "and if not" phrase.
Some versions use a comma after "wilt," so that there is a complete clause there: "If Thou wilt, [then] forgive their sins...." but the KJV doesn't have a comma and could be read as an introductory clause that is unfinished: "If Thou wilt forgive their sins..." [then what?]. In that way, someone might want to finish out the "then what" and be tempted to think the dash is in place of the "then what." |
Or begin to see some hidden prophetic nonsense and preach it as revelation knowledge. Gnosticism in a very real way. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/13/16 10:41 am
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bonnie knox |
Ole Timer, I'm quite taken with your hashtag "ain't-happenin-in-Pikeville."
I was just wondering, though, if those little marks were hypens or dashes, and what significance they have.  |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
1/13/16 10:41 am
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Da Sheik |
Agreed OTCP  |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1865
1/13/16 10:43 am
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| bonnie knox wrote: | Ole Timer, I'm quite taken with your hashtag "ain't-happenin-in-Pikeville."
I was just wondering, though, if those little marks were hypens or dashes, and what significance they have. |
I was wonderin if anyone would "see" the hidden insight in this. If you notice in my holy hashtag, there are 3 hyphens. This is an anti-Branham secret code that means "Trinitarianism IN NOT of the devil," even though Branham said it was.
But the deeper meaning is found in the Midrash compilation. Not many people know this, so don't tell anybody. On the left side of the seamless robe worn by our Lord, the seamstress who made the robe, being led by Gabriel to do so, inserted 3 Tiny Tassels (called wings). Most people don't know this, but I have it from a very credible source that since "healing is in his wings" (or the tassels at the bottom of the robe), it wasn't just any of the tassels. As a matter of fact, this is why most folk don't get healed. It had to be one of those 3 hidden tassels just underneath the hemline on the left side of the garment. This is why the woman with the issue of blood was healed, she didn't just grab the hem of his garment. Now here is the triune prophetic fulfillment. This woman touched the 3rd of the tiny tassels, with the 3rd finger from the thumb, of her left hand (which is the finger we wear a wedding band on, and this is the origin of why we wear it on that particular finger). The moment her 3rd finger from the thumb, touched the 3rd hidden tassel, the 3rd Person of the Godhead placed the healing that was resident in Jesus human person on this woman and she was healed.
I'm telling ya, I got this straight from an unnamed source who lives in Capernaum, on Third Street, 3rd house on the left. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
1/13/16 10:55 am
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