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Aaron Scott

An "earned" degree means an "expensive" degree?

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **11/17/15 1:05 pm**

Yes, you might have had to pass certain classes. But let's be honest, there have been some folks who didn't deserve to pass that passed anyway and got their credits. Or were given longer than anyone else, etc.

Now, compare that to the person who went to a non-accredited school. Maybe one that is very cheap. They may have worked their tail off, know 10 times what the accredited student knows, etc. But for OTCP, it's not enough to be a SCHOLAR. No siree. Nope, one can be dumb as a rock, but so long as they come from an ACCREDITED school, it's all good for OTCP.

I prefer scholarship over accreditation (although they are not mutually exclusive). A degree mill is one thing...but not having a "certain" accreditation is just game playing.

I understand that Isaac Newton went to a school that wasn't accredited.

Galileo the same.

On an on.

There is nothing wrong with ANY degree...so long as you actually got an education. Yes, some will give your better opportunities with them on your resume, but just in objective terms, it's scholarship that ultimately matters.

Bishopinsc

Friendly Face Posts: 289 **11/17/15 1:34 pm**

First of all, "earned" does not necessarily mean "expensive." One might add in the benefits of an earned degree and find that the expense is much less.

Secondly, the use of Newton and Galileo is invalid. They lived in an era before accreditation and in a different time from us.

I will allow OTCP to finish this but I had to present those two points!
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BiSC

Cojak

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **11/17/15 2:53 pm**

It isn't hard to know an educated person, and sometimes is is backed by the letters behind the name, but NOT ALWAYS.

Something in me gets tired of degrees, accreditation, etc. All are above my pay grade. I had a kid work for me who graduated from Princeton. I was impressed by the guy. We were talking one day about Princeton, he said you would be amazed how many degrees from Princeton are bought. He said he had earned his way thru Princeton by doing the required academic work for the party animals. He had very little respect for the degrees from any of the Ivy League Schools.

I never once heard him bragging his degree was from Princeton, but it was in his resume and records.

I prefer an education to degrees behind a man's name. But that is probably because I don't have one. Embarassed

_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/

Cojak

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **11/17/15 2:55 pm**

After his fall from Grace, DAvid Thompson returned to school for an education. He already had the degree. Cool

_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/

Old Time Country Preacher

Re: An "earned" degree means an "expensive" degree?

Old Time Country Preacher · Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **11/17/15 7:20 pm**

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Cojak

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **11/17/15 7:32 pm**

And that is how it happened, moving west. Wink

_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/

Aaron Scott

Bishopinsc....

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **11/17/15 8:40 pm**

That is the point! Someone came up with "accreditation" as a way to "legitimize" a college. Oh, and, yes, the college does have to pay for the accreditation. THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS PER YEAR.

Instead of there being a single accreditation agency, there are MANY of them, each getting a piece of the pie. Some are specialized--business school accreditation agencies; seminary accreditation agencies, etc. Oh, it's a wonderful job if you can get it!

It reminds me of the various boxing belts. There is the championship belt for this group, that group, another group. It's just a way to make money, really, isn't it?

So, that being the case, I am now offering all minister a "Certification of Ministerial Excellence" accreditation for your personal ministry. With this comes nicely framed certificate of the same, announcing proudly that you are fulfilling the Great Commission...all while paying me one. This is $3000 the first year, and $600/year thereafter to maintain accreditation (we are assuming you aren't going to change roles or stop being a Christian, etc.). At the 10-year point, you can upgrade to the "Apostolic Accreditation," for just $10,000 the first year, and $2000 thereafter.

Also, I have the "Superior Pastoral Spouse Certification." We don't want to leave the little ladies out, do we? Only $800/year. Just fill out a simply survey and our staff will carefully look that you have answered all the questions to our satisfaction (almost always!), then this lovely certificate will be mailed for proud exhibit in your home or church office.

Also, there is accreditation for your music program, Sunday School, and Family Training Hour. Pricing depends on the size of the program.

There is also, just for the local church, "Church Achievement Accreditation." This beautifully framed document will show that, indeed, you are a church. That you have preaching, singing, collect offerings, and have at least two services a week. Every church should strive for the pinnacle of recognized accreditation! $2000/first year, and only $600/year thereafter.

Best of all, there is the "Denominational Award of Excellence" for all denominations that seek to "show themselves approved" to the church body and world at large. This accreditation will show that your doctrine is Orthodox (or, if not, well within some degree of acceptable "reform"), your standards are high, etc. $15,000 for the first/year, $4000/thereafter.

FAQS.....

Has anyone ever lost their accreditation?

Yes. If they do stop meeting our high standards of showing excellence in paying their bills on time...and other stuff...we will almost certainly withdraw their accreditation. It can be re-obtained, but the recipient must begin the process again.

Are accredited churches better than non-accredited ones?

Oh, my--yes! For one thing, other churches don't have accreditation! This is absolutely vital if you are to be taught correct doctrine, sing the right songs, and so forth. Further, once a church is accredited, there are upgrades that can be applied for after so many years (e.g., Apostolic level after 10 years; Messianic after 15 years; Quadrinity after 20 years).

What is the upfront cost?

For only $400, we will conduct the proper examination of materials. This usually consists only in you completing a survey and having it witnessed by someone who can sign their name. If we accept you for an accreditation candidate, you will have to pay $600 for our onsite inspection/interview (this is only in the case of churches). If you pass, we will offer you accreditation on the financial terms listed above.

Cojak

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **11/17/15 8:56 pm**

Where do I get the application????
WAit, wait. I gotta get a church first. LEMME get back to you!

Smile

Love it!
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/

c6thplayer1

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6385 **11/17/15 9:47 pm**

Aaron Scott

Tom Sterbens...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **11/18/15 7:18 am**

Consider this theology teacher....

He is from Galilee. A fisherman by trade. He is said to be "unlearned."

He might not even get accepted as a student, let alone a teacher!

And if he received an honorary degree from the Pentecostal Seminary and proudly displayed it, etc., OTCP will set him straight!

Consider this political science teacher:

She is from England. She is longest-reigning monarch of that nation. She has extensive and intimate political experience. Sadly, though, she has no doctorate. Can she teach at the university level? OF COURSE NOT!

And if she were granted an honorary degree of political science from Harvard, OTCP would laugh if she every called herself "Dr. Queen Elizabeth." "Yes, she might be better than anyone else, but she didn't PAY for it!"

Consider this writer:

He hails from Hannibal, MO. He is a best-selling author. He is considered an American classic of reading. He does not have a doctorate.

An honorary doctorate of letters is fine...so long as Twain never, never, never uses the title, since...well, he didn't pay for it.

It is NOT the degree that makes one a scholar, just as a title does not make one an apostle. YES, a person from an accredited college will certainly be looked on with more favor. But it has LITTLE to do with scholarship.

As for OTCP, c'mon! Anyone that has a doctorate from an unaccredited school is fair game for him. He could CARE LESS whether they are actually a scholar, have produced the requisite demonstration of ability, etc. He never gets beyond it if it's a degree from an unaccredited university/seminary.

I know that accreditation is an easy way to vet things. I get that. I have accredited degrees. But it should NEVER be the key thing. It's just a quick-glance resume thing. The true test is are you truly educated? Did you truly demonstrate everything that should be shown?

Cojak

Re: Tom Sterbens...

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 24285 **11/18/15 10:03 am**

Old Time Country Preacher

Old Time Country Preacher · Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **11/18/15 10:54 am**

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Old Time Country Preacher

Old Time Country Preacher · Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **11/19/15 2:21 pm**

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Bishopinsc

Friendly Face Posts: 289 **11/19/15 3:34 pm**

As the Old Timer is aware, he is not alone in his crusade against pseudo-degrees. I am fully supportive of it.

I thought about this thread and decided that it is appropriate that non accredited degrees are less expensive since they cheapen those who try to use them to further their career, all degrees, and all institutions of higher learning.
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BiSC

Old Time Country Preacher

Old Time Country Preacher · Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **11/19/15 8:39 pm**

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Aaron Scott

Reply to OTCP

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **11/20/15 7:25 am**

Consider the process of accreditation. The issuers could hardly know if great scholarship was present throughout the entire campus. They often look only at the credentials of a professor and assume that all is well. It's not like they take the course of each professor and thereby state that it is true scholarship. As you said--and it is correct--an accredited degree does give one more utility.

But it's quite incestuous, you might say. Basically, accreditation guarantees little more than utility. After all, we have rankings of colleges from top to bottom. There has to be a "lowest" accredited college, right? So their academic production may be well below that of another accredited college. At the same time, consider that an accredited college, to STAY accredited, must hire professors that also have degrees from accredited colleges.

In a nutshell, the degree is far more a symbol of UTILITY than ABILITY.

At the same time, I certainly acknowledge that if you can get a good education without an accredited degree, you ought almost certainly to be able to get one at an accredited college. But either way, a good student is GOING to become well-educated: Harvard University or Hayseed Rural College. Why? Because great student dig for more. They go beyond the course anyway.

I have no problem with the accredited degree. Have them myself. My problem is with OTCP's implication that an unaccredited degree (or honorary degree) means the person really doesn't deserve to be called doctor or what have you.

It depends on how you define "doctor." If by it you mean, as apparently OTCP does, that you have a doctorate degree from an accredited university, then certain things follow. But if by "doctor" you mean someone who is one of the best in the world in a field of legitimate study, who has put in the time and effort to acquire that knowledge, and has added to the body of knowledge about that field, then a very different picture appears.

It is my belief that, IDEALLY, you both are a doctor with an accredited degree AND also someone who is one of the best in the world in their field. But if I had to choose that quintessential meaning, it absolutely does NOT mean only that you have a certain degree from a certain university. That is self-serving and self-preserving of the accreditation process, and means little.

Yes, if an honorary degree is bestowed because of donations or what have you, that is not in and of itself enough to make the grade. But if it is bestowed because of true contributions to the body of knowledge, etc., then I have no problem AT ALL with the process being "shortcutted" and it being bestowed precisely because of the insights and efforts that a non-accredited person provided.

I know that for CLARITY we only call those with "real" doctorates doctors. But because of OTCP's obsession (possession?) regarding anyone who, NO MATTER HOW QUALIFIED, dares call themselves a doctor due to an honorary doctorate or an unaccredited one, I simply say BULL MALARKEY. Scholarship, advancement, etc., is what truly matters. NOT whether you paid for your doctorate (since, as you know, a person who has completed all their studies and did so with brilliance, will not be awarded a doctorate degree unless and until they pay for it).

With that said, not just 10 people who didn't get an accredited degree, but 10 who are among the best in their field without a college degree (or at least an advanced one) at all! I am betting that virtually every single accredited college would LOVE to have these people teaching for them as scholars in their field

Architecture? R. Buckminster Fuller, inventor of the geodesic dome, visionary, philosopher, poet, architect, futurist. He never finished college, after being expelled from Harvard twice (one involving some chorus girls).

Management? Henry Ford, billionaire founder of Ford Motor Company. Received only a modest rural education. Left his home on the farm to work as an apprentice machinist for James Flower & Brothers in Detroit, Michigan. Later ran a sawmill and became a chief engineer for Edison Illuminating Company before starting the Ford Motor Company.

Computer Science/Design? Steve Jobs, billionaire co-founder of Apple Computers and Pixar Animation; Disney's largest shareholder. Dropped out of Reed College after six months and went to India before returning to Silicon Valley. As he said, “I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life and how college was going to help me figure it out.”

Computer Science and Management? Bill Gates, billionaire co-founder of Microsoft, one of the richest men in the world, philanthropist. He dropped out of Harvard after his second year to work with Paul Allen on the venture that became Microsoft. As he noted, “I realized the error of my ways and decided I could make do with a high school diploma.”

Management? Computer Science? Larry Page, billionaire co-founder of Google. Dropped out of the Stanford Ph.D. program in computer science to start Google in 1998 working out of a friend's garage. Unlike Brin, he never returned to finish the Ph.D. program.

Art? Pablo Picasso, modern artist, painter, sculptor, co-founder of Cubism, co-inventor of collage. At the age of 16, he attended the Royal Academy of San Fernando (Spain's foremost art school), but he disliked the formal instruction and soon quit attending classes altogether.

Finance? Markets? Marc Rich, billionaire commodities investor, built Philbro into the world's largest commodities firm, founded Marc Rich & Co. Dropped out of NYU to take a job in the mail room of Philipp Brothers on Wall Street.

Journalism? William Safire, columnist for the New York Times. Dropped out of Syracuse University to take a job as a researcher for a column.

Math? William Shakespeare.

Political Science? Harry Truman, U.S. president. He never went to college.

Literature? Mark Twain (Samuel Langhorne Clemens), printer, riverboat pilot, prospector, newspaper reporter, humorist, bestselling novelist. Left school a year after his father's death, never went beyond the fifth grade. Nonetheless, he still wrote the first great American novel, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

Science? Alfred Russel Wallace, naturalist, co-discover of evolutionary theory. He left school at the age of 14 to go to work to support his family. Wallace was self-taught via frequent visits to libraries and workingman's institutes, while working as a land surveyor, a builder, and a school teacher.

Architectural Design? Frank Lloyd Wright, architect, interior designer, leader of the Prairie School of architecture. Voted as the greatest American architect of all time by the American Institute of Architects. Attended a high school in Madison, Wisconsin, but apparently never graduated. He was admitted to the University of Wisconsin as a special student and took classes part-time for two semesters. He left school at the age of 20 to work at an architectural firm in Chicago, Illinois.

bonnie knox

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **11/20/15 7:49 am**

William Shakespeare for math?

Aaron Scott

Bonnie...

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6042 **11/20/15 9:32 am**

What? He was a great mathematician, wasn't he?

bonnie knox

Re: Bonnie...

[Insert Acts Pun Here] Posts: 14803 **11/20/15 10:01 am**

Old Time Country Preacher

Old Time Country Preacher · Acts-pert Poster Posts: 15570 **11/20/15 10:19 am**

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