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 COG a Long Time Asked: Why would anyone go to a non-accredited institution? |
Old Time Country Preacher |
In the Rhema/Baptist thread, COG a Long Time asked the following. This is an excellent question, one I knew would not get the attention it needed because it was buried in another thread. I posted it here to garner the attention it deserves.
| COG a Long Time wrote: | Someone help my thinking: "Why would anyone go to a non-accredited college/university when there are so many reputably accredited colleges/universities within driving distance of everyone within the United States?"
Not only that, there are so many online programs that one could take.
I'm serious, WHY GO TO A NON-ACCREDITED INSTITUTION?
My family goes back as members of the Church of God since the turn of the century --- that's the 20th century ---- and, everyone, who has wanted to, has gone to Lee ---- from the time it was a bible college to a major university. I also have uncles, aunts, cousins, etc. who have attended ECBC or NWBC as well.
The cost has never been prohibitive.
As a matter of fact, one of my cousins showed up on the door-step of President Ray H. Hughes, and told him, "I don't have any money, but God wants me to attend this college."
The story goes that Dr. Hughes said, "Well, if you're supposed to be here, don't you go anywhere else." He walked him to Admissions and told him to come back to his office later that day.
My cousin told the person in Admissions that he didn't have any money for tuition. The admissions clerk asked, "Did Dr. Hughes bring you here?" Nervously, he said, "Oh, no - my dad dropped me off."
Whoever helped him in the admissions office said, "I mean Dr. Hughes brought you to this office, didn't he?" My cousin said, "Oh, yes!" (Some of you have probably heard my cousin embarrassingly tell that story!)
When my cousin went back to Brother Hughes's office, he had him to kneel at a chair and he prayed over him. When the prayer ended, he told my cousin to come and go with him. They went over to the cafeteria. And, you probably know the rest of the story: he worked in the cafeteria and other places at Lee for the next four years to make money for tuition and to live on.
He graduated and ministered/pastored in the GREAT Church of God until his death a few years ago.
Again, would someone help my thinking: "Why go to a non-accredited institution?" |
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Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
11/6/15 2:25 pm
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UncleJD |
| Because The Lord told them to |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
11/6/15 2:29 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
There are two types of unaccredited religious institutions (Bible colleges, seminaries):
1. Those that are not accredited at all.
2. Those that claim to be fully accredited but the accreditation is from an unrecognized accrediting agency (an accreditation mill such as ACI www.accreditnow.com, TACI, etc.). Such schools advertise that they are fully accredited, they simply "forget" to tell the students the accreditation is bogus and isn't worth the ink it took to print "fully accredited" in their catalog.
Each and every school in both categories 1 & 2 is "UNACCREDITED" because it is not accredited by a recognized, reputable accrediting agency.
Why do people choose an unaccredited school? Here are some reasons:
1. It is a shortcut to obtaining a degree. While there are a very few unaccredited religious schools that offer substantive and rigorous degree programs (although TRACS accredited now, Bob Jones University was not accredited for years, but they offered a solid program, on par academically with regionally accredited schools), the vast majority of unaccredited religious schools are woefully void of academic rigor. Examples of this type school include: Covington in Rossville, GA; International in Plymouth, FL; Carolina School of Theology in Manassas, VA; NC College of Theology in Wilmington, NC; Jacksonville Theological Seminary in Jacksonville, FL; Newburgh Theological Seminary in Newburgh, IL; Jim Bob's School of Religion; Slick's Bible College, etc.
2. The cost is typically less than most legitimately accredited schools.
3. It is an easy way for preachers to obtain a doctorate. Check the doctorates of preachers who pastor and you will find that a great percentage of them are unaccredited.
Disclaimer: In all the above, I speak to those unaccredited schools that offer "degrees." This is what becomes problematic in the real world when one begins to list, advertise, claim a particular academic degree. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
11/6/15 3:04 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| UncleJD wrote: | | Because The Lord told them to |
Aspiring preacher in prayer, "Lord, where would you have me go to prepare me for my calling and to earn a degree that will benefit and facilitate the ministry you've called me to."
The Lord.........to the aspiring preacher, "My son, I want you to find a place that will let you get by with as little as possible, require 10% of the academic work of legitimate institutions, call their degrees accredited when the accrediting agency is bogus, and then award you a degree that your peers who have a real degree will snicker about behind your back. Yes, be a good steward." |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
11/6/15 3:13 pm
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sheepdogandy |
OR you can do what I did.
Experience the School of Christ as taught by B. H. Clendennen.
Buy it, complete it, save it and go through it again.
Then God can drop you anywhere on this planet and you are prepared to minister.
No accreditation needed.
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God
www.spwc.church |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7298
11/6/15 3:28 pm
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UncleJD |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | | UncleJD wrote: | | Because The Lord told them to |
Aspiring preacher in prayer, "Lord, where would you have me go to prepare me for my calling and to earn a degree that will benefit and facilitate the ministry you've called me to."
The Lord.........to the aspiring preacher, "My son, I want you to find a place that will let you get by with as little as possible, require 10% of the academic work of legitimate institutions, call their degrees accredited when the accrediting agency is bogus, and then award you a degree that your peers who have a real degree will snicker about behind your back. Yes, be a good steward." |
Glad you have it figured out. I don't think the conversation would go that way and I don't think He cares about accreditation as much as His own will, and maybe He knows best of where to send who. But I'm not claiming to know what He'd say to anyone. You just asked a hypothetical question, answered it, then told me I'm wrong.  |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3138
11/6/15 3:49 pm
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Nick Park |
I abhor fake degrees etc. But there are many find institutions that train people for different areas of ministry without pretending to offer degrees. They are often more focused on ministry preparation than on academic qualifications. And, in many cases, they produce more anointed and effective servants of God than some seminaries that have accreditation coming out of their ears. They can also provide pathways into education for those who may not initially be accepted by an accredited school or cannot afford huge fees.
In my case, when I was first called to Christian ministry at the age of 18, no accredited institution would have accepted me. I loved Jesus, knew I was called to preach, but had abandoned my schooling at age 15 to get drunk and live on the streets.
My first College was the Salvation Army Training College in London. They did not offer any degrees, but they taught me basic theology, pastoral counselling and, more importantly, how to win souls. After two years I graduated and was ordained.
The next step of my education was with the AG's old International Correspondence Institute. I studied off campus while also serving as a bivocational pastor and earned a Bachelors degree which was deemed to be accredited in the US, but was not recognized in the UK or Ireland.
Nevertheless, a secular British University accepted that 'dubious' qualification for my entry into their theology program and I earned an accredited Masters degree from a very well-respected University.
I thank God for nontraditional and unaccredited training institutions.
_________________
Senior Pastor, Solid Rock Church, Drogheda
National Overseer, Church of God, Ireland
Executive Director, Evangelical Alliance Ireland
http://eaiseanchai.wordpress.com/ |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1021
11/6/15 5:25 pm
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Nick Park |
Another testimony of unaccredited training and education.
Some years ago a young man came to our church and found Christ. He had a history of drug abuse, gang warfare and prison. We helped disciple him.
Then he attended a 'Servant Academy' which had no accreditation and no staff with postgraduate qualifications. He learned how to serve Jesus.
Today that young man is a full-time student at European Theological Seminary (ETS) - the Church of God school in Germany.
He could never have made the strides forward he has, or gained entrance into a fine school like ETS, without going the unaccredited route.
_________________
Senior Pastor, Solid Rock Church, Drogheda
National Overseer, Church of God, Ireland
Executive Director, Evangelical Alliance Ireland
http://eaiseanchai.wordpress.com/ |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1021
11/6/15 5:30 pm
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| It's part truth, part scam... |
Aaron Scott |
In Florida, a person with a degree in Education is preferred to teach math more than a person with a degree in Math.
Same goes for all other categories.
Yes, there is some truth to an education degree somewhat preparing you to teach. It's also true that a person with a degree in math is a whole lot more qualified to teach math.
The same works in the accreditation department. Let's say you have the finest theology department in the world...well, if you haven't PAID FOR and obtained the "correct" accreditation, then you get smeared with whatever it is that OTCP is smearing around these days.
Very simply, yes, a valid accreditation program better ensures you employability...it says very little to ensure that high quality of the program you entered. If the university will not PAY the accreditation agency, then that college, no matter how good they are, is magically "unaccredited" now.
Consider if one's accreditation expired mid-year. Yesterday, OTCP would be singing your praises as going to an accredited college. But last night the accreditation expired. NOTHING ELSE CHANGED, but not OTCP is laughing at your paltry degree, your deceit, your poor education.
That's the scam part. That is, if you don't PAY for the accreditation, then no matter how good you are, you aren't accredited.
Consider what sort of accreditation agency would "bite the hand that feeds it" by telling a university that is PAYING FOR THE ACCREDITATION that they are no longer accredited. I'm betting that some of that might be PR (that is, to avoid looking bad) and part of it may be a shakedown (pay us more...or else).
I do believe in accreditation. But more than that, I believe in education. A good education is a good education no matter where you got it and who, if anyone, accredited it.
Yes, my degrees are accredited. But even if they weren't, if I got that level of training, I'd still be fully educated. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6032
11/6/15 7:45 pm
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Carolyn Smith |
ECBC was unaccredited when we went there (79). But they worked hard and were able to obtain accreditation before my husband graduated (82 & 83). They went around to quite a few of the churches in NC (both Eastern & Western, since they were officially one state then) and gained support. I remember their asking people to help sponsor books they needed to obtain for the library as part of the process.
While we were young & naive then, the lack of accreditation didn't really matter to us. God had spoken to us to go & prepare for ministry, and that's what we did. What accreditation meant for us was that hubby could receive VA benefits while attending, and that made a big difference for us.
IMHO, the most important thing they did was to train ministers, musicians, and educators for ministry. Their graduates are serving all over the world.
_________________
"More of Him...less of me."
http://twitter.com/camiracle77
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 5909
11/6/15 9:42 pm
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Cojak |
WHY? Cost, convenience, trust, and good teachers.
There were hundreds of COG, 4 SQ and AOG pastors that were graduates (?) men who studied at North Carolina's 6 wk Bible school. Some great ministers came out of there. Some leaders who won thousands to Christ, organized churches without any state support.
I realize these schools are not being disparaged, but they sure were not bunk! No one gave degrees there, but it was the forerunner of ECBC that also did a wonderful job.
A wise man goes to a teacher to learn, not for the degree. JMHO
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/ |
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 24275
11/6/15 10:23 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Nick Park wrote: | I studied off campus while also serving as a bivocational pastor and earned a Bachelors degree which was deemed to be accredited in the US, but was not recognized in the UK or Ireland.
Nevertheless, a secular British University accepted that 'dubious' qualification for my entry into their theology program and I earned an accredited Masters degree from a very well-respected University. |
1. Your degree wasn't dubious, Nick, you said it was accredited in the US.
2. Even accredited schools here in the USA will at times allow a small percentage of students entry to a masters program based on an unaccredited degree. The student is admitted on probation for 1 or 2 semesters. If they make the grade, they are able to remain in the program. This will never happen at the doctoral level. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
11/6/15 10:28 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Nick Park wrote: | Some years ago a young man came to our church and found Christ. He had a history of drug abuse, gang warfare and prison. We helped disciple him.
Then he attended a 'Servant Academy' which had no accreditation and no staff with postgraduate qualifications. He learned how to serve Jesus.
Today that young man is a full-time student at European Theological Seminary (ETS) - the Church of God school in Germany.
He could never have made the strides forward he has, or gained entrance into a fine school like ETS, without going the unaccredited route. |
Not quite true, in a very few cases a person is allowed entrance to a masters program even with no undergrad at all. The student is admitted on probation for a few semesters, and if they make a certain GPA, thy are allowed to remain in the program. So its quite possible one could enter a masters program with no undergrad. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
11/6/15 10:30 pm
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| Re: It's part truth, part scam... |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| Aaron Scott wrote: | The same works in the accreditation department. Let's say you have the finest theology department in the world...well, if you haven't PAID FOR and obtained the "correct" accreditation, then you get smeared with whatever it is that OTCP is smearing around these days.
Very simply, yes, a valid accreditation program better ensures you employability...it says very little to ensure that high quality of the program you entered. If the university will not PAY the accreditation agency, then that college, no matter how good they are, is magically "unaccredited" now.
Consider if one's accreditation expired mid-year. Yesterday, OTCP would be singing your praises as going to an accredited college. But last night the accreditation expired. NOTHING ELSE CHANGED, but not OTCP is laughing at your paltry degree, your deceit, your poor education.
That's the scam part. That is, if you don't PAY for the accreditation, then no matter how good you are, you aren't accredited.
Consider what sort of accreditation agency would "bite the hand that feeds it" by telling a university that is PAYING FOR THE ACCREDITATION that they are no longer accredited. I'm betting that some of that might be PR (that is, to avoid looking bad) and part of it may be a shakedown (pay us more...or else).
I do believe in accreditation. But more than that, I believe in education. A good education is a good education no matter where you got it and who, if anyone, accredited it.
Yes, my degrees are accredited. But even if they weren't, if I got that level of training, I'd still be fully educated. |
It is true that a school invests a great deal of money in the process of accreditation, but it isn't like "paying for the accreditation." Legitimate accreditation ensures a given standard of academic quality.
One does not get, Aaron, a good education from a millish unaccredited school. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
11/6/15 10:35 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Cojak wrote: | WHY? Cost, convenience, trust, and good teachers.
There were hundreds of COG, 4 SQ and AOG pastors that were graduates (?) men who studied at North Carolina's 6 wk Bible school. Some great ministers came out of there. Some leaders who won thousands to Christ, organized churches without any state support.
I realize these schools are not being disparaged, but they sure were not bunk! No one gave degrees there, but it was the forerunner of ECBC that also did a wonderful job.
A wise man goes to a teacher to learn, not for the degree. JMHO |
BMI was an excellent endeavor, Cojak. Many COG pastors received their only formal training there. But as you say, no one gave a degree. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
11/6/15 10:37 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Carolyn Smith wrote: | ECBC was unaccredited when we went there (79). But they worked hard and were able to obtain accreditation before my husband graduated (82 & 83). They went around to quite a few of the churches in NC (both Eastern & Western, since they were officially one state then) and gained support. I remember their asking people to help sponsor books they needed to obtain for the library as part of the process.
While we were young & naive then, the lack of accreditation didn't really matter to us. God had spoken to us to go & prepare for ministry, and that's what we did. What accreditation meant for us was that hubby could receive VA benefits while attending, and that made a big difference for us.
IMHO, the most important thing they did was to train ministers, musicians, and educators for ministry. Their graduates are serving all over the world. |
From the git go ECBC pursued recognized accreditation and obtained it.
Training ministers is a most noble cause. Offering degrees that are not accredited do not facilitate a graduates utility of the degree. That's why offering a diploma is much better. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
11/6/15 10:39 pm
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| OTCP |
JimmieDavis |
Is it bad that I love the fact that you stay up at night worrying about this. I think this is great. That a fairy tale and figment of the imagination is chiding people over being fake. That's hilarious. That coupled with your patented doubting theology leaves me thinking you are not the person to be deciding the validity of a school. Whichever one you went to got ya brain. You ain't been right since.
Now to the issue at hand. Why do you go to school? To prepare for ministry or get a degree? If it is to get a degree then I'd get an accredited school to be my choice.
But if it is to prepare for ministry you might want to expose yourself to a school that had a track record for preparing and training ministers.
Otherwise you'd have a beautiful, accredited piece of paper hanging on your wall that isn't worth PLEASE SELECT ANOTHER WORD in the real world. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 219
11/6/15 10:44 pm
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c6thplayer1 |
Aaron wrote;
| Quote: | Yes, there is some truth to an education degree somewhat preparing you to teach. It's also true that a person with a degree in math is a whole lot more qualified to teach math.
|
I might have to challenge that Aaron. The math graduate may be number 1 in his class but if he doesn't know how to get his points across this would make him a poor choice for a math teacher.
I worked with an Electrical Engineer that was A+ student and a genius. Your first impression of him trying to explain something was nothing more than a clunk head. He just couldnt express his message in a means that was beneficial to anyone. In fact he had trouble explaining the very basics of Ohms Law to anyone but he could put it on paper that another EE could understand. |
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6385
11/6/15 11:21 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
I generally agree with OTCP regarding accreditation and degrees, but the opinions he has expressed in this thread are pretty ridiculous.
There are plenty of reasons why someone would choose to go to an unaccredited school, and plenty of reasons why the Lord would tell them to do so. Many of these schools offer very high-quality educations in their areas of focus. These areas of focus do not always align with the requirements of traditional degrees, and so these schools should not offer those degrees -- they should provide diplomas, certificates of completion, or something similar. But education is its own reward.
Websites like Open Yale extend Ivy League-level education to the masses. You will never get a degree for completing these courses, so why would you ever take them? Why would you want to receive Ivy League instruction and learning, without having to pay for it? I can think of a few reasons!
Similarly, there are plenty of reasons why someone who is entering the ministry would want to receive life-changing instruction on how to work in the ministry, and plenty of reasons why that person would need that instruction at a low cost. There are plenty of reasons why that person would have no interest in earning a degree, but would still want formal instruction.
Why would anyone ever attend a trade school when they could get a 4-year liberal arts degree instead? Sometimes you just need to know how to do something. You shouldn't go to a school that with poor academics that will call you Dr. Plumber upon your graduation, but a quality, unaccredited trade school can teach you most everything you need to know to get a quality start in your profession.
OTCP, in his hypothetical response from the Lord, appears to lump all unaccredited institutions in with degree mills which falsely claim to be accredited and provide academically-suspect (or -absent) instruction. He ought not do so. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
11/7/15 7:02 am
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| Re: OTCP |
Old Time Country Preacher |
| JimmieDavis wrote: | Is it bad that I love the fact that you stay up at night worrying about this.
But if it is to prepare for ministry you might want to expose yourself to a school that had a track record for preparing and training ministers.
Otherwise you'd have a beautiful, accredited piece of paper hanging on your wall that isn't worth PLEASE SELECT ANOTHER WORD in the real world. |
No staying up late for the parody, jimmie, parodies don't sleep. An he definitely aint "worryin" about it, just tryin to inform. 
The piece of paper that's worth anything in the real world is the one that is accredited. Otherwise, all a feller has is a piece of paper to "hang on his wall an look at." Ifn ya ever need cardiac bypass surgery, hey, find a cardiologist with a unaccredited MD. I bet ya they a lot cheaper. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15564
11/7/15 7:40 am
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