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Another COG Goes Independent
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Post Is there a ... Mat
Is there a statement on a website or that has been published as to the reason for the church becoming independent and leaving the COG? I doubt it is to do with money mismanaged/embessled in Cleveland. Are they leaving with property in hand or is the COG going to continue the policy of taking these issues to court?

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8/22/15 7:37 am


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Post Nick Park
When a church goes independent, few of us get to hear the real story. I suspect it's like when people leave a church - God always told them to move (never mind what really happened).

However, each time a church goes independent we have the same reactions here on Acts:

1. The loyalists hint that the leadership of the church must be carnal or unspiritual, otherwise they wouldn't have left.

2. Those who feel passionately about a particular issue in the Church hint that this was the issue which led the church in question to leave.

3. Those with a gripe against Cleveland see it as confirming that the denomination is going to hades in a handbasket.

4. Sheepdogandy can't help smiling.
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8/22/15 9:02 am


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Post bonnie knox
Quote:
Those who feel passionately about a particular issue in the Church hint that this was the issue which led the church in question to leave.


Yep, them preachers with them honery docterates git the big head and thank they too good to be part of the great Church of God. Folks, please take heed an let this be a warnin as ta whair them honery docterates and degree mills can lead to.
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8/22/15 9:08 am


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Post sheepdogandy
Nick Park wrote:
When a church goes independent, few of us get to hear the real story. I suspect it's like when people leave a church - God always told them to move (never mind what really happened).

However, each time a church goes independent we have the same reactions here on Acts:

1. The loyalists hint that the leadership of the church must be carnal or unspiritual, otherwise they wouldn't have left.

2. Those who feel passionately about a particular issue in the Church hint that this was the issue which led the church in question to leave.

3. Those with a gripe against Cleveland see it as confirming that the denomination is going to hades in a handbasket.

4. Sheepdogandy can't help smiling.



Smile
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8/22/15 10:19 am


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Post Cojak
sheepdogandy wrote:

4. Sheepdogandy can't help smiling.



Smile[/quote]

Not nice SD Shocked Smile
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8/22/15 10:41 am


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Post mytimewillcome
Anytime someone mentions "church planting", they mean the guitar-driven worship with the lights down, 'cool' videos, free coffee, probably meets at a middle-school at first, cool website, edgy music playing before service, hipster worship leader with a weird haircut, and many other aspects of a church service that 95% of our CoG pastors do not connect with.

So, why are we surprised when the establishment doesn't place a priority on multiplying this as our denominational image?

Please don't try and tell me there are people lined up to plant life-giving churches based on Sunday School and the Redneck hymnal.
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8/22/15 11:05 am


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Post Cojak
mytimewillcome wrote:

Please don't try and tell me there are people lined up to plant life-giving churches based on Sunday School and the Redneck hymnal.


Us old folk are too dedicated to the COG family and history, or we would pull out and plant an indy based on SS and use the Redback.
Embarassed Smile It would probably have a lifespan of 10-15 years, til we died off! Shocked Smile Smile Smile
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8/22/15 11:31 am


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Post bonnie knox
Cojak wrote:
mytimewillcome wrote:

Please don't try and tell me there are people lined up to plant life-giving churches based on Sunday School and the Redneck hymnal.


Us old folk are too dedicated to the COG family and history, or we would pull out and plant an indy based on SS and use the Redback.
Embarassed Smile It would probably have a lifespan of 10-15 years, til we died off! Shocked Smile Smile Smile


I don't know Cojak. Have you ever noticed how clothing styles cycle around every 20 years or so? That redback might be getting ready to cycle back into vogue.
Anyway, those folks who follow trends say the younger generation are wanting to connect with a hymn style of music. (maybe not quite redback, but in a similar vein)
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8/22/15 12:42 pm


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Post bonnie knox
Quote:
Anytime someone mentions "church planting", they mean the guitar-driven worship with the lights down, 'cool' videos, free coffee, probably meets at a middle-school at first, cool website, edgy music playing before service, hipster worship leader with a weird haircut, and many other aspects of a church service that 95% of our CoG pastors do not connect with.


I read someone's criticism of many church plants (not COG necessarily) is that they are where there are already quite a few churches AND where there is a good income level amongst the residents of the area. In other words, where there is at least a chance of becoming a well-paid celebrity pastor.
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8/22/15 12:46 pm


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Post Old Time Country Preacher
bonnie knox wrote:

I read someone's criticism of many church plants (not COG necessarily) is that they are where there are already quite a few churches AND where there is a good income level amongst the residents of the area. In other words, where there is at least a chance of becoming a well-paid celebrity pastor.



You mean they is folk what enters Christian ministry to become well paid celebrities? Shocked
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8/22/15 12:54 pm


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Post bonnie knox
Well, that wasn't exactly what I was saying. I was saying the person was pointing out that some so-called church planting organizations seem to bend over backward to ensure that there is no sacrifice involved and that the people who begin attending the church plant are from other churches in the area. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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8/22/15 1:10 pm


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Post Old Time Country Preacher
bonnie knox wrote:
Well, that wasn't exactly what I was saying. I was saying the person was pointing out that some so-called church planting organizations seem to bend over backward to ensure that there is no sacrifice involved and that the people who begin attending the church plant are from other churches in the area.



The OT was bein sarcastic, Miss Bonnie. Shore they is folk what enters ministry fer carnal reasons, money, celebrity, etc... Shameful, but its true.
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Post Travis Johnson
Nick Park wrote:
When a church goes independent, few of us get to hear the real story. I suspect it's like when people leave a church - God always told them to move (never mind what really happened).

However, each time a church goes independent we have the same reactions here on Acts:

1. The loyalists hint that the leadership of the church must be carnal or unspiritual, otherwise they wouldn't have left.

2. Those who feel passionately about a particular issue in the Church hint that this was the issue which led the church in question to leave.

3. Those with a gripe against Cleveland see it as confirming that the denomination is going to hades in a handbasket.

4. Sheepdogandy can't help smiling.


What would be your assessment as to why 2 of our top 10 churches in attendance (in the U.S.) have left the COG in the past year?
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8/22/15 6:54 pm


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Post 2? spartanfan
I know Jerry was "Top 10" but who was the other top 10 that left? Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
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8/22/15 8:51 pm


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Post caveator
bonnie knox wrote:
Quote:
Those who feel passionately about a particular issue in the Church hint that this was the issue which led the church in question to leave.


Yep, them preachers with them honery docterates git the big head and thank they too good to be part of the great Church of God. Folks, please take heed an let this be a warnin as ta whair them honery docterates and degree mills can lead to.


Bonnie,

You are really going to have to start checking who you are signed in as. I have noticed a pattern in several posts recently. Just saying...
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8/22/15 10:25 pm


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Post Cojak
caveator wrote:


Bonnie,

You are really going to have to start checking who you are signed in as. I have noticed a pattern in several posts recently. Just saying...

Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
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8/22/15 10:54 pm


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Post Cojak
bonnie knox wrote:
Quote:
Anytime someone mentions "church planting", they mean the guitar-driven worship with the lights down, 'cool' videos, free coffee, probably meets at a middle-school at first, cool website, edgy music playing before service, hipster worship leader with a weird haircut, and many other aspects of a church service that 95% of our CoG pastors do not connect with.


I read someone's criticism of many church plants (not COG necessarily) is that they are where there are already quite a few churches AND where there is a good income level amongst the residents of the area. In other words, where there is at least a chance of becoming a well-paid celebrity pastor.


I do know of a church plant in the Charlotte area that followed that pattern. Friends/kin of mine, drove from the Gastonia (West and East), and Gaston County, leaving their home churches to attend the new plant in Charlotte. I visited a couple times on invitation, and it seemed the entire 300-350 people at the time, came from a 35 mile radius, because the young man was/is an excellent 'Speaker/Preacher'. Probably much better than the pastors these folks were sitting under. Shucks, my sister even drove 20 miles to make Starbucks Coffee in the lobby. The pastor did become a Celerity pastor for a period.

The pastor has since left that church and doing other work for the Lord. Some folks 'returned home' but many were ashamed to and went to other COGs and independent works.

But for sure most plants do subtract from other churches. Some of it is deserved because a pastor was not feeding the sheep, others, not deserved (IMHO).
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8/22/15 11:08 pm


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Post Nick Park
Travis Johnson wrote:

What would be your assessment as to why 2 of our top 10 churches in attendance (in the U.S.) have left the COG in the past year?


Since you asked this of me as a direct question, I would need the following to give an answer.

a) Which churches you are talking about. I don't have league tables of attendance for the US (or indeed any of the other countries where the CoG operates).

b) I would need to have heard statements from the churches concerned as to why they have left.

c) I would need to be close enough to the churches to know the real reasons (which in these kind of situations are not always the same as the official or spiritual-sounding reasons).

d) I would need permission from those churches to discuss their situation in an open forum.

If I had that kind of info and permission then I might be informed enough to venture an opinion in public. However, as someone who spends over 95% of his time on ministry matters outside of the US, that is unlikely.

Even in that case, I would prefer to discuss it otherwhere than in a thread about a specific church that might have left for entirely different reasons.

I'm not saying that there aren't issues (such as finance and church planting) that merit serious and urgent discussion. What I am saying is that most of us don't know what has happened in this particular case, and yet, as soon as I saw the thread title, I could predict how certain posters would respond.
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8/23/15 2:38 am


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Cojak wrote:
caveator wrote:


Bonnie,

You are really going to have to start checking who you are signed in as. I have noticed a pattern in several posts recently. Just saying...

Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked


Double what he said.
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Post Re: 2? spartanfan
spartanfan wrote:
I know Jerry was "Top 10" but who was the other top 10 that left?
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8/23/15 8:21 am


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