Actscelerate.com Forum Index Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
@actscelerate Twitter  @actscelerate Facebook  @actscelerate Google+ 

Another COG Goes Independent
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
   Actscelerate.com Forum Index -> Feature Presentations This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Message Author
Post Another COG Goes Independent Alan Wagoner
I just learned that Pastor Joseph Heard and the church at Winter Haven, "Gracepoint" Florida has left the Church of God to be independent. Friendly Face
Posts: 172
8/19/15 12:12 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Old Time Country Preacher
My goodness, there goes another "unfriend" on Facebook. Cause I read in the good Book that them that come out from us was not of us. Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15480
8/19/15 12:24 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post sheepdogandy
lol
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God

www.spwc.church
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6976
8/19/15 5:44 pm


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post Good for them wayupnorth
Good for them. They've stopped drinking the kool-aid. New Member
Posts: 11
8/19/15 6:08 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Cojak
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
My goodness, there goes another "unfriend" on Facebook. Cause I read in the good Book that them that come out from us was not of us.



We must be careful. in deciding who is 'us', not sure Cleveland, TN was around when that was said.

I think we the COG, came out from among some 'us', if I ain't mistaken. Shocked Maybe we wazunt part of the US. REckon? Embarassed

However I do hate to see a church leave the fellowship, but I am assuming the majority decided that. Embarassed
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 22193
8/19/15 6:24 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: Another COG Goes Independent Cojak
Just like Trump threatened to do! However, now the pastor is in the driver's seat! Embarassed
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 22193
8/19/15 7:17 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post bradfreeman
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
My goodness, there goes another "unfriend" on Facebook. Cause I read in the good Book that them that come out from us was not of us.


Keep reading... Laughing
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!

My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
8/19/15 9:22 pm


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post Re: Good for them Old Time Country Preacher
wayupnorth wrote:
Good for them. They've stopped drinking the kool-aid.


wun, what ecclesiastical persuasion are you son? Cause I bet if you independent, they is some Kool-Aid bein drunk within the confines a ya church.
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15480
8/19/15 10:12 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Herman Knapp
Can't say that I blame them. Friendly Face
Posts: 117
8/19/15 10:59 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Since independent ... Mat
Since independent Pentecostal/Spirit-filled churches now out number denominational ones (I read that somewhere, not sure where?), is there any reasonable discussion on this particular congregation going independent or are we just going to "shoot" verbiage at each other.

Example, why did they feel this was the best path for the church? Did they keep their property or did they walk-away from it? What is the history of this local church?

I want to understand the reasons for the changing "landscape" in the Church of God Movement. It seems there is much talk about planting new churches, at least by denominational leaders, but if you lose fellowship with your existing churches, there really is no need for the denominational leaders.

Mat
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1610
8/20/15 7:11 am


View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Reply with quote
Post sheepdogandy
Yeah, what he said. Smile
_________________
Charles A. Hutchins
Senior Pastor SPWC
Congregational Church of God

www.spwc.church
Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 6976
8/20/15 7:35 am


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post Re: Since independent ... Travis Johnson
Mat wrote:
Since independent Pentecostal/Spirit-filled churches now out number denominational ones (I read that somewhere, not sure where?), is there any reasonable discussion on this particular congregation going independent or are we just going to "shoot" verbiage at each other.

Example, why did they feel this was the best path for the church? Did they keep their property or did they walk-away from it? What is the history of this local church?

I want to understand the reasons for the changing "landscape" in the Church of God Movement. It seems there is much talk about planting new churches, at least by denominational leaders, but if you lose fellowship with your existing churches, there really is no need for the denominational leaders.

Mat


Talking about church planting is necessary and good. But, there is no substantial investment in church planting in the COG right now. And, while I don't know the particulars of Joseph's situation, I do know that the requirement to send in large sums of money monthly divorced from substantive investment in church planting/Great Commission initiatives is cause for many to consider the value proposition of the denomination.

We have wonderful fellowship and solid doctrine. But, if that fellowship and doctrine isn't being leveraged along with our cooperative Tithe of Tithe, we lack justification for the expenditure at the local level.

When sons and daughters that have teethed on the backs of our pews as did their parents and their parents' parents are leaving, we need to assess honestly and dial in our focus.

Rick Warren nails it when he says, "A great commitment to the Great Commission and the Great Commandment will build a great Church."

If we fail in leveraging our people and resources and if we fail in waving the standard at the forefront of the battlefield and mustering our army to advance the Gospel through our fellowship, they will continue to peel away.

People are always going to leave us. But, they shouldn't leave us because of us leaving the mission marginalized on the sidelines and with us fighting other battles.
_________________
travisjohnson.net
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7832
8/20/15 8:16 am


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post travis wayne
Not to hi-jack this thread but in regards to church planting - what kind of churches should we plant? Should they always be the makings of a future large church or could they be a forever small church in a small community that has and amazing impact? (no hidden agenda here)

I have 1 church so far and was instrumental in bringing another into the COG. I believe We can get this done on the local level if, we just start doing it.
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1274
8/20/15 8:39 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post I'm not sure ... Mat
I'm not sure an established local church leaves its denomination as a result of the lack of "new church" plants. As a matter of fact, I would think the reasoning behind the move is to insure the continuation of a viable congregation and ministry of that pastor in that location.

What is the value to my church when the resources (funds) from my church are used to plant a new congregation in my area of ministry. Especially if it is a "third party" plant in which my church has no voice or participation.

If the money goes up the chain and those in distant offices mandate that a new church shall be established in the city I am called to reach, without consultation or even notice, I believe I would get the feeling that my denomination is "working" against me with my own offerings. It is a powerful thing to be called to a city/location to pastor as apposed to being committed to ministering in a system where ever it might take you.

Perhaps the question of continued commitment to the denomination has to do with the denominations continued commitment to the well-being of every local church and pastor.

Again, what are the reason for this church in FL to go independent?

Mat
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1610
8/20/15 10:28 am


View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Reply with quote
Post Re: I'm not sure ... Old Time Country Preacher
Mat wrote:

Again, what are the reason for this church in FL to go independent?

Mat



The good Book is clear on this, Mat. They was not of us.
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15480
8/20/15 10:31 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: I'm not sure ... Cojak
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
Mat wrote:

Again, what are the reason for this church in FL to go independent?

Mat



The good Book is clear on this, Mat. They was not of us.


Was I a betting man, I would BET that there are some wonderful Christians there, and that they are part of my family, the one listed as the Family of God. JMO

However Mat is asking the right questions, the ones that should be asked throughout the denomination. WHY? Confused Confused
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 22193
8/20/15 10:41 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: I'm not sure ... Mat
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
Mat wrote:

Again, what are the reason for this church in FL to go independent?

Mat



The good Book is clear on this, Mat. They was not of us.


OTCP,

Sometimes I feel you "deflect" from the discussion when the news is contrary to your narrative of the COG. I want you to know I have a high regard of the COG Movement and I believe in Bible government and being under authority. However, the "Independent" Movement is perhaps the strongest Christian expression of church we currently see. So why, is my question?

Mat
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1610
8/20/15 10:48 am


View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Reply with quote
Post Re: travis Travis Johnson
wayne wrote:
Not to hi-jack this thread but in regards to church planting - what kind of churches should we plant? Should they always be the makings of a future large church or could they be a forever small church in a small community that has and amazing impact? (no hidden agenda here)

I have 1 church so far and was instrumental in bringing another into the COG. I believe We can get this done on the local level if, we just start doing it.


Wayne,

We need every sort of church: launch large church, house church, community church, etc...

At the end of the day, I think that every Christian that understands teh mission of Jesus and the mission of the Church desperately wants to be a part of a victorious, advancing Gospel movement. Alone we can do good things in our communities. Together, we can do great things, regardless of what kind of community we are in...regardless of our style, size, affluence or lack of. But, it's sad if we come together and enjoy one another and fail to make a substantial cooperative effort in pioneering new works and rehabilitating existing Gospel outposts.

The Holy Spirit-empowered Church advances. When the Church isn't advancing, it isn't because the Holy Spirit is less powerful than He used to be. It's because of us. When the impoverished Macedonian church is commended for it's Gospel generosity beyond their borders, I struggle to validate how we cannot have concern for the Gospel in our Samaria and uttermost parts of our world.

I hope that answers that really wonderful hi-jack of yours...I hope we're all asking many more questions like that. I think they bring us close as brothers and sisters and challenge us to identify more closely with Jesus.
_________________
travisjohnson.net
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7832
8/20/15 12:41 pm


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post Re: I'm not sure ... Travis Johnson
Mat wrote:
I'm not sure an established local church leaves its denomination as a result of the lack of "new church" plants. As a matter of fact, I would think the reasoning behind the move is to insure the continuation of a viable congregation and ministry of that pastor in that location.

What is the value to my church when the resources (funds) from my church are used to plant a new congregation in my area of ministry. Especially if it is a "third party" plant in which my church has no voice or participation.

If the money goes up the chain and those in distant offices mandate that a new church shall be established in the city I am called to reach, without consultation or even notice, I believe I would get the feeling that my denomination is "working" against me with my own offerings. It is a powerful thing to be called to a city/location to pastor as apposed to being committed to ministering in a system where ever it might take you.

Perhaps the question of continued commitment to the denomination has to do with the denominations continued commitment to the well-being of every local church and pastor.

Again, what are the reason for this church in FL to go independent?

Mat


Mat,

I don't know what was the impetus for Joseph Heard. I've reached out to him...not to report back here...but, because he's my brother and I want him to know that...and to know that he is loved and being prayed for.

Now, my thoughts about our lack of mission focus (appropriation) is my opinion...but, it is also influenced based on feedback I have gained from some of our best people who have left.

For me, I simply don't want to be a part of a denomination that is making sure my nest is feathered..a denomination that would choose to make the COG some sort of preachers' union...perks, benefits, and some sort of bargaining power. I can name states that were taking the EHM fund (pre-TOT cut) and were spending money designated for church planting on ministerial health insurance and other similar line items with those designated funds. It was a very clear violation of the General Assembly's mandate. It is one of the reasons that almost 70% of the General Council voted for the TOT to be cut.

We can continue to ride this elevator to the bottom, consuming the spoils of our pioneers and their sons creating a condition where we feel slightly more comfortable...virtually making the interior of our tent more comfortable.

OR

We can be a Gospel-obsessed, mission-focused movement that is identifying ourselves with our pioneering DNA and expanding the borders of our tent.

I believe the vast majority of us are on board with mission. If our fellowship is taking large swaths of resources and not showing an impact on mission, dissonance is created. If we are producing with those talents, we will be invigorated...we will be more motivated to battle.
_________________
travisjohnson.net
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7832
8/20/15 12:54 pm


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post georgiapath
When Cleveland lets one million dollars walk away because no one was paying attention, why would anyone want to keep sending them money. Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
Posts: 7241
8/21/15 7:54 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Actscelerate.com Forum Index -> Feature Presentations This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Acts-celerate Terms of Use | Acts-celerate Policy
World News Network | Acts-celerate Chat
Contact the Administrator.


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group :: Spelling by SpellingCow.