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Does Wine in the Bible contain alcohol or not?
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Post Re: Come on Eddie...... spartanfan
Eddie Robbins wrote:
spartanfan wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Should we pull out all the statistics about guns and use them to preach against owning a gun?


the diversion tactic does nothing to enhance the conversation Smile


No tactic. It's a fair thought. None of those statistics have anything to do with me having a half glass of red wine each night.


I might say there is a better alternative for you - grapes! According to a Mayo Clinic article by Katherine Zeratsky, R.D., L.D., "... Some research studies suggest that red and purple grape juices may provide some of the same heart benefits of red wine, including:

Reducing the risk of blood clots
Reducing low-density lipoprotein (LDL, or "bad") cholesterol
Preventing damage to blood vessels in your heart
Helping maintain a healthy blood pressure
Grapes are rich in health-protecting antioxidants, including resveratrol and flavonoids. These antioxidants are found mainly in the skin, stem, leaf and seeds of grapes, rather than in their pulp.

The amount of antioxidants in grapes depends on many factors, including the kind of grape, its geographic origin and how it's processed. Dark red and purple grapes tend to be higher in antioxidants than are white or green grapes. Likewise, the level of antioxidants, such as resveratrol found in wine, varies with higher levels in red wine.

Besides grape juice, other grape products, including dealcoholized wine, grape extracts and grape powder, may offer health benefits.

Keep in mind that it's also beneficial to eat whole grapes not just grape juice. Some research suggests that whole grapes deliver the same amount of antioxidants that are in grape juice and wine but have the added benefit of providing dietary fiber."

So I think you should possibly consider that you might get the same or better benefits (maybe) without getting the alcohol which is detrimental to your health. I'd rather my grandkids see grape juice in my fridge than wine. That's just me. I'd rather them see me eating some grapes instead of knocking down a glass of wine - since there really is a lot (a whole lot) of evil associated with wine. A lot of parents wish there kids would have never bought a bottle of Boone's Farm.

But you get my point. That's just me - my preference - based on what I know and what I've seen in my 38 years of ministry. We'd be better off without alcoholic beverages so since they are not necessary (you can get the benefits of the muskadine grapes elsewhere) the quiestion is "Why?"
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8/4/15 6:24 pm


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Post Eddie Robbins
But, there's nothing wrong with red wine. It is healthy. Which is better for me...a Coke or a glass of red wine? There is no sin issue with red wine and I could argue that there is with a Coke. Acts-pert Poster
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8/4/15 6:41 pm


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Post Not the issue... spartanfan
Eddie Robbins wrote:
But, there's nothing wrong with red wine. It is healthy. Which is better for me...a Coke or a glass of red wine? There is no sin issue with red wine and I could argue that there is with a Coke.


Notice how you switch to guns and coke? That's not what I said. I said grape juice (or even better yet grapes) seems to have the same benefits as your glass of red wine (grapes even more benefits) without the alcohol. And the entire nation would be better off if we did not have any alcoholic beverages whatsoever, since there are much better alternatives that don't have the deadly issues attached to them ( you really can't fairly argue against that). That's why you switch to guns and coke - because as far as the better and more responsible choice (and better witness if you are concerned about that) is grape juice or grapes to get the benefits you seek. I love you and encourage you to change to the better choice. You certainly in your book seem to encourage us all to choose the better when faced with various health choices. You might need to make one more big change for the better since you've made so many. That's just a suggestion. And you still are my hero Smile
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Post Re: Not the issue... Nature Boy Florida
spartanfan wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
But, there's nothing wrong with red wine. It is healthy. Which is better for me...a Coke or a glass of red wine? There is no sin issue with red wine and I could argue that there is with a Coke.


Notice how you switch to guns and coke? That's not what I said. I said grape juice (or even better yet grapes) seems to have the same benefits as your glass of red wine (grapes even more benefits) without the alcohol. And the entire nation would be better off if we did not have any alcoholic beverages whatsoever, since there are much better alternatives that don't have the deadly issues attached to them ( you really can't fairly argue against that). That's why you switch to guns and coke - because as far as the better and more responsible choice (and better witness if you are concerned about that) is grape juice or grapes to get the benefits you seek. I love you and encourage you to change to the better choice. You certainly in your book seem to encourage us all to choose the better when faced with various health choices. You might need to make one more big change for the better since you've made so many. That's just a suggestion. And you still are my hero Smile


Agreed.

What is wrong with being the best one can be? (Not just talking alcohol here)

I remember Dr. McDaniel always prayed "deliver us from mediocre". Why do we settle for "good enough" when there is better or best?

I agree there is no sin in mediocre - but why can't Christians lead everyone - and show them the better way to live?

The Mormons set them selves up as examples - why can't Christians?

Christians have become the "just getting by crowd" - since their sins are already forgiven - they end their growth there - why bother selling all they have when they already have their fire insurance policy - paid in full by Jesus.
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Post Re: Not the issue... Eddie Robbins
spartanfan wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
But, there's nothing wrong with red wine. It is healthy. Which is better for me...a Coke or a glass of red wine? There is no sin issue with red wine and I could argue that there is with a Coke.


Notice how you switch to guns and coke? That's not what I said. I said grape juice (or even better yet grapes) seems to have the same benefits as your glass of red wine (grapes even more benefits) without the alcohol. And the entire nation would be better off if we did not have any alcoholic beverages whatsoever, since there are much better alternatives that don't have the deadly issues attached to them ( you really can't fairly argue against that). That's why you switch to guns and coke - because as far as the better and more responsible choice (and better witness if you are concerned about that) is grape juice or grapes to get the benefits you seek. I love you and encourage you to change to the better choice. You certainly in your book seem to encourage us all to choose the better when faced with various health choices. You might need to make one more big change for the better since you've made so many. That's just a suggestion. And you still are my hero Smile


Just making a point. Drinking a Coke is very bad for your health. Drinking a glass or red wine is very good for your health. The wine sends you to hell, say some. It is sinful, say some. There are people who will take some sort of medication to help them sleep. That is ok. Drink a glass of red wine to help you sleep, that is a sin. I'm glad you read my book and hope you'll read the one I'm working on. Very Happy
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8/5/15 6:44 am


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Post Me too.... spartanfan
I was just making a point too that you should : "Keep in mind that it's also beneficial to eat whole grapes not just grape juice. Some research suggests that whole grapes deliver the same amount of antioxidants that are in grape juice and wine but have the added benefit of providing dietary fiber."

There is a better choice that to me that makes wine drinking totally unnecessary and that means the bad associated with it far outweighs the good.

A friend of mine, Dr. Joe Esposito from Atlanta says this: "Alcohol...
kills brain cells. Once a brain cell dies, it never grows back. It dehydrates your body damaging other cells, even causing wrinkles. It can cause Liver and Pancreas malfunction. It puts an extra burden on your detoxification organs, preventing them from doing their regular jobs and wearing them out."

And since we cannot deny the evil associated with wine (to go along with the fact that there are better/safer/more sensible ways to get the benefits) then the best choice is to promote abstinence. I mean, if you can get all of the benefits without the possibility of losing any brain cells in the process then why would a reasonable person continue to drink wine? That's the question you should be asking yourself.

And yes, I will read your next book but it might not be as good as your first one because I don't know how many brain cells you've destroyed never to return drinking 365 glasses of wine the last couple of years! Smile
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8/5/15 8:39 am


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Post Re: Of course Wine was Wine in the Bible krista
Purplebarney wrote:
The only reason the debate is out there is to justify doctrine. Lets be honest here. All you have to read is what the Bible says about wine and that is you should not be drunk or drink in excess. There is ABSOLUTELY ZERO reason for this scripture to be written and included in the Bible if Wine wasn't really Wine back then. Its that simple. Do I drink wine? ABSOLUTELY! Do I drink in excess? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Now.....see y'all up yonder in Heaven!


PB, just curious. How many glasses of wine do you typically drink at one sitting? And how many would it take to make you drunk?
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8/5/15 11:43 am


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Post Re: Not the issue... krista
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
spartanfan wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
But, there's nothing wrong with red wine. It is healthy. Which is better for me...a Coke or a glass of red wine? There is no sin issue with red wine and I could argue that there is with a Coke.


Notice how you switch to guns and coke? That's not what I said. I said grape juice (or even better yet grapes) seems to have the same benefits as your glass of red wine (grapes even more benefits) without the alcohol. And the entire nation would be better off if we did not have any alcoholic beverages whatsoever, since there are much better alternatives that don't have the deadly issues attached to them ( you really can't fairly argue against that). That's why you switch to guns and coke - because as far as the better and more responsible choice (and better witness if you are concerned about that) is grape juice or grapes to get the benefits you seek. I love you and encourage you to change to the better choice. You certainly in your book seem to encourage us all to choose the better when faced with various health choices. You might need to make one more big change for the better since you've made so many. That's just a suggestion. And you still are my hero Smile


Agreed.

What is wrong with being the best one can be? (Not just talking alcohol here)

I remember Dr. McDaniel always prayed "deliver us from mediocre". Why do we settle for "good enough" when there is better or best?

I agree there is no sin in mediocre - but why can't Christians lead everyone - and show them the better way to live?

The Mormons set them selves up as examples - why can't Christians?

Christians have become the "just getting by crowd" - since their sins are already forgiven - they end their growth there - why bother selling all they have when they already have their fire insurance policy - paid in full by Jesus.


Amen!!!
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Post Re: Come on Eddie...... krista
Eddie Robbins wrote:
spartanfan wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Should we pull out all the statistics about guns and use them to preach against owning a gun?


the diversion tactic does nothing to enhance the conversation Smile


No tactic. It's a fair thought. None of those statistics have anything to do with me having a half glass of red wine each night.


"Half glass of red wine". Now that's funny! Laughing Laughing Laughing
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8/5/15 11:48 am


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Post Eddie Robbins
As opposed to a full glass of red wine. Do you have to drink a full glass? Laughing Acts-pert Poster
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Post Da Sheik
The fact that this thread exists, and that you have (no doubt) sincere and true Christians on both sides of the proverbial fence, proves that this is a disputable matter as Paul outlines in Romans 14. We can agree to disagree. Acts Enthusiast
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8/5/15 2:56 pm


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Post Yeah.... spartanfan
Da Sheik wrote:
The fact that this thread exists, and that you have (no doubt) sincere and true Christians on both sides of the proverbial fence, proves that this is a disputable matter as Paul outlines in Romans 14. We can agree to disagree.


It's like the using tobacco issue. We come short of saying someone will go to Hell for it but adamantly proclaim that common sense says there is no reason to do it and it hurts your body and testimony.
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Post Eddie Robbins
We never say that being obese hurts your testimony. Acts-pert Poster
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Post Re: Yeah.... Da Sheik
spartanfan wrote:
It's like the using tobacco issue. We come short of saying someone will go to Hell for it but adamantly proclaim that common sense says there is no reason to do it and it hurts your body and testimony.


I say that Romans 14 takes care of tobacco use as well. Jesus outlined a principle that there is nothing that a man puts in his body that defiles him. It's what comes out that defiles the man. (Matthew 15:11)
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Post Re: Yeah.... bradfreeman
spartanfan wrote:
Da Sheik wrote:
The fact that this thread exists, and that you have (no doubt) sincere and true Christians on both sides of the proverbial fence, proves that this is a disputable matter as Paul outlines in Romans 14. We can agree to disagree.


It's like the using tobacco issue. We come short of saying someone will go to Hell for it but adamantly proclaim that common sense says there is no reason to do it and it hurts your body and testimony.


When you say "we", do you mean the COG?

Therefore, a Christian must totally abstain from all alcoholic beverages and other habit-forming and mood-altering chemical substances and refrain from the use of tobacco in any form, marijuana and all other addictive substances, and further, must refrain from any activity (such as gambling or gluttony) which defiles the body as the temple of God or which dominates and enslaves the spirit that has been made free in Christ (Proverbs 20:1; 23:20-35; Isaiah 28:7; 1 Corinthians 3:17; 5:11; 6:10; 2 Corinthians 7:1; James 1:21).

Must?

Must or what?

Must or you can't get into Heaven?
Must or you can't get into the COG?

If you can get into Heaven but not the COG, maybe God should raise His standards.
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Post Re: Me too.... Dave Dorsey
spartanfan wrote:
A friend of mine, Dr. Joe Esposito from Atlanta says this: "Alcohol...
kills brain cells. Once a brain cell dies, it never grows back. It dehydrates your body damaging other cells, even causing wrinkles. It can cause Liver and Pancreas malfunction. It puts an extra burden on your detoxification organs, preventing them from doing their regular jobs and wearing them out."

I don't drink alcohol -- at all. I find it uncomfortably dehydrating, and while I don't think it's a sin, I do think it is, at least for me, a poor witness.

With that said, unfortunately, your doctor friend is rather clueless. This is an article from a casual site, but it is well cited with links to authoritative sources. http://mentalfloss.com/article/49024/does-drinking-alcohol-kill-brain-cells

"For moderate drinkers, a number of studies from the last 15 years suggest that, far from killing brain cells, a little tipple is actually associated with a reduced risk of cognitive decline and dementia."
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Post Nature Boy Florida
Eddie Robbins wrote:
We never say that being obese hurts your testimony.


Oh contrare - there is a joker here on Acts that brings it up at the drop of a hat - and brings several hats daily.
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Post Re: Yeah.... Nature Boy Florida
bradfreeman wrote:
spartanfan wrote:
Da Sheik wrote:
The fact that this thread exists, and that you have (no doubt) sincere and true Christians on both sides of the proverbial fence, proves that this is a disputable matter as Paul outlines in Romans 14. We can agree to disagree.


It's like the using tobacco issue. We come short of saying someone will go to Hell for it but adamantly proclaim that common sense says there is no reason to do it and it hurts your body and testimony.


When you say "we", do you mean the COG?

Therefore, a Christian must totally abstain from all alcoholic beverages and other habit-forming and mood-altering chemical substances and refrain from the use of tobacco in any form, marijuana and all other addictive substances, and further, must refrain from any activity (such as gambling or gluttony) which defiles the body as the temple of God or which dominates and enslaves the spirit that has been made free in Christ (Proverbs 20:1; 23:20-35; Isaiah 28:7; 1 Corinthians 3:17; 5:11; 6:10; 2 Corinthians 7:1; James 1:21).

Must?

Must or what?

Must or you can't get into Heaven?
Must or you can't get into the COG?

If you can get into Heaven but not the COG, maybe God should raise His standards.


Ah - Brad with an out of date COG bashing on a thread. Who is surprised?
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Post Re: Yeah.... Methocostal
NBF. What is out of date? That sounds harsh and isn't how my tone is. I'm curious as I haven't attended a on a regular basis for quite a few years. Have they lessened their stance on alcohol, medical treatment, gambling?

I'm just curious, I would appreciate the update.

Thanks Bro


Nature Boy Florida wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
spartanfan wrote:
Da Sheik wrote:
The fact that this thread exists, and that you have (no doubt) sincere and true Christians on both sides of the proverbial fence, proves that this is a disputable matter as Paul outlines in Romans 14. We can agree to disagree.


It's like the using tobacco issue. We come short of saying someone will go to Hell for it but adamantly proclaim that common sense says there is no reason to do it and it hurts your body and testimony.


When you say "we", do you mean the COG?

Therefore, a Christian must totally abstain from all alcoholic beverages and other habit-forming and mood-altering chemical substances and refrain from the use of tobacco in any form, marijuana and all other addictive substances, and further, must refrain from any activity (such as gambling or gluttony) which defiles the body as the temple of God or which dominates and enslaves the spirit that has been made free in Christ (Proverbs 20:1; 23:20-35; Isaiah 28:7; 1 Corinthians 3:17; 5:11; 6:10; 2 Corinthians 7:1; James 1:21).

Must?

Must or what?

Must or you can't get into Heaven?
Must or you can't get into the COG?

If you can get into Heaven but not the COG, maybe God should raise His standards.


Ah - Brad with an out of date COG bashing on a thread. Who is surprised?
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8/6/15 8:41 am


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Post Eddie Robbins
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
We never say that being obese hurts your testimony.


Oh contrare - there is a joker here on Acts that brings it up at the drop of a hat - and brings several hats daily.



If I am the joker that you are referring to, I challenge you to post a quote of mine saying that being obese hurts one's testimony. Go.....
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