Actscelerate.com Forum Index Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
@actscelerate Twitter  @actscelerate Facebook  @actscelerate Google+ 

Does Wine in the Bible contain alcohol or not?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
 
   Actscelerate.com Forum Index -> Feature Presentations This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Message Author
Post Eddie Robbins
Don't for get the marijuana. Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16367
8/4/15 5:36 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post This is interesting, not sure who the author is Ernie Long
Most ministers teach complete abstinence from alcoholic beverages. My
personal conclusion based on bible study is that the bible teaching is
really that of moderation and not complete abstinence. Just a few items I
base this conclusion on are as follows:
Jesus turned water to wine, Paul said to use a little for you stomachs
sake, and fermented wine beverage was a common drink of the times.

My question: Based on bible teachings, is it sinful to drink a glass of
wine during a romantic evening with your wife or have a beer at a social
gathering with co-workers or friends provided that you do so in moderation?

The New Testament does indicate at least by inference that Jesus drank wine
and it was a common beverage of the time. However, the word oinos which is
the general term for wine was used for freshly squeezed grape juice which
would be unfermented and it was also used to indicate fermented grape juice
which would be what we would call wine. The wine of Jesus' day was not as
intoxicating as it is today because we are told its strength was about a
part of today's wine with eight parts of water. That would certainly make
it much less intoxicating than the wine bought on today's market. The only
way we can tell if it was alcoholic or non-alcoholic would be the context
in which the word was used. When we find it being consumed by Jesus and his
followers it was always with a meal. Wine so used had little intoxicating
ability. Since they had no water purification facilities then and had
little knowledge of germs or bacteria wine was probably the safest thing
they had to drink at the time. Today there is no need to drink wine or any
other intoxicating beverage as we eat because we have so many beverages
available to drink without their having an intoxicating effect on us that we
do not recommend any type of alcoholic beverage.

Their use of the wine was at mealtime and not a recreational thing as it is
with much of contemporary society. We should shun anything that would have
a deleterious affect on our influence. If others see me drinking beer and
wine what is it going to do for my influence in a given community? We need
to be thinking about the example and message it conveys when others see us
drinking at any time. Is it going to aid my influence or hinder it in my
home community? is a question I must ask my self. What would Jesus do if he
were here?
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1043
8/4/15 6:35 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post A fair overview and response..... spartanfan
When we look at the subject of wine in the Scriptures, we find two main words-tirosh which usually refers to grape juice in its unfermented state, the way it comes from the press as a new agricultural product, and yayin, a word with less clear meanings.

In 30 of the 38 references to tirosh in the Old Testament it is paired with grain and oil, or oil alone, as products of the harvest used for tithe and taxes, etc. Two texts (Mic 6:15; Isa 62:8) refer to tirosh as the product of the grape; four texts (Prov 3:10; Joel 2:24; Mic 6:15; and Hos 9:2) speak of tirosh as produced by pressing. Only one text (Hos 4:11) suggests that tirosh may produce intoxication-and this text may actually be referring to early fermentation or to the practice of mixing new and old (fermented) wine.

Thus tirosh appears to refer almost exclusively to unfermented wine or grape juice. But yayin, the other main word that the Bible uses for wine, clearly means fermented wine in most cases.

The Old Testament uses the word yayin some 140 times. The Bible presents yayin in a negative light 60 times; in about 60 more cases it simply mentions it without making any value judgment, and in only 17 references does it possibly say something positive about it. Thus yayin, fermented wine, is spoken of negatively much more often that it is positively.

On the negative side, first of all, are the stories in which fermented wine produces bad results. Not many (if any) historical narratives in the Old Testament mention a beneficial outcome from the use of wine, but several end disastrously: the drunkenness of Noah (Gen 9:21); Lot (Gen 19:32-35); Nabal (1 Sam 25:36, 37); Amnon (2 Sam 13:28); Belshazzar (Dan 5:1-3); and Ahasuerus (Esth 1:1-10), for example. Isaiah (51:21); Jeremiah (23:9); Hosea (4:11; 7:5); Joel (1:5); and Habbakuk (2:15) are among the Bible prophets who point out the ill effects, both physical and moral, which intoxicating wine produces.

Proverbs 23:29-35 describes wine's immediate physical effects (red eyes and blurred vision), its immediate social effects (strife and wounds), as well as the long-term results (woe and sorrow). Elsewhere, the book of Proverbs refers to wine as producing poverty (21:17) and violence (4:17). Isaiah adds that it deceives the mind (28:7), inflames a person, and leads to forgetfulness of God (5:11, 12).

Those texts which point to certain useful functions of wine should not be overlooked, but they should be placed in perspective. Three texts (Ps 104:15; Eccl 9:7; 10:19) mention that wine can make the heart glad and bring cheer. This indicates an awareness of the immediate physiological effects of alcohol, but these texts need to be placed along side the many other Bible statements mentioning its nonbeneficial long-term results.
Ecclesiastes 9:7 and 10:19 might superficially appear to give approval for indulging in alcohol. In a bit of ancient philosophy, Ecclesiastes 9:7 says, "Go, eat your bread with enjoyment, and drink your wine with a merry heart; for God has already approved what you do." It is a description of the author's search for those things that bring meaning in life. This text is pointing out that man should be content with certain common duties of life-including eating and drinking, even wine. However, the book ends with the author's finding a greater good to provide meaning in life-that man should fear God and keep His commandments (chapter 12:13). All the other experiences in which the author tries to find meaning fade in significance beside this.

At least seven other Bible texts which appear to speak favorably of yayin do so merely by means of comparison; they are not speaking directly about wine itself. For example, the Song of Solomon uses a comparison with wine four times (1:2, 4; 4:10; and 7:9) to bring out the beloved's beauty. Hosea 14:7 uses the fragrance of wine from Lebanon as a comparison. Proverbs 9:5, 6 uses wine figuratively in talking about the "banquet of life" that wisdom provides. Amos 9:14 and Zechariah 10:7 use the merriment that wine creates as a figure of how God's people will rejoice at the time of His final victory.

Wine was also used as a drink offering in the temple service, just as we see that beer was used in the presentation of delayed tithe. These drink offerings were poured out beside the altar; they were not drunk by the priests.

Thus most of the texts which mention wine favorably actually use it figuratively in comparisons. A few speak of its immediate physiological effects. But by far the majority describe its detrimental results-such as wicked acts committed in connection with drinking wine.

Isaiah, for example, associates wine with the taking of bribes(5:22, 23). Amos combines wine with profaning sacred things (2:8 ).

In summary, the writers of the Old Testament raise four indictments against drinking wine. First, they recognize its immediate adverse physical effects-redness of the eyes, blurring of vision, staggering, and drunkenness in general. Second, they recognize its long-term moral effects-various kinds of immoral and unethical behavior along with the social results of such actions. Third, they identify particular instances of such behavior and connect them with specific persons. Fourth, because of its effects, they prohibit certain classes and specific individuals from drinking any wine.

In contrast to this large negative picture, about the only positive images the Bible gives of alcohol are three texts that note alcohol can produce a state of levity (certainly a valid physiological observation). The Bible writers also occasionally use wine to draw some favorable comparisons in figures of speech. (Yet they also use wine to symbolize some unfavorable comparisons as well. See the "wine of wrath" in Psalm 75:8 and Jeremiah 25:15).

How then should we personally relate to alcohol in view of the overall picture given in the Old Testament? If one takes the whole picture into account and evaluates all the evidence, the most reasonable conclusion is that the only safe course is complete abstinence from alcohol in any form- especially in this generation where we have many other choices of beverages.

My conclusion is that any preacher who advocates anything other than the Church of God position of total abstinence is dangerously directing souls toward bondage and perhaps encouraging them toward the Lake of Fire.

My opinion is that since we don't need alcoholic beverages and there is much more hurt, pain, suffering, loss, destruction and sin associated with it in the Bible as well in real life experiences than there is joy, peace, righteousness and godliness - the responsible decision is to leave it alone and always reach for a better choice.

That's my opinion. I think it is Scriptural and I know it makes good sense.
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3628
8/4/15 7:43 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Methocostal
Thank you Link. I have also wondered if it were more social than moral.

Link wrote:
I saw a documentary on the history of London a while back. A couple of hundred years ago, the Dutch started exporting a fermented liquid known as gin. Prior to that, the strongest thing available was a strong beer. There were a lot of social problems caused by this easy, cheap way to get drunk, and laws were relaxed to make it easier for the English to make and sell it.

But there was a social movement against it. There were stories of poor women selling their bodies to get money to buy gin, criminal robbing people to get money to buy gin.

So then we see social movements in England and in the US. There was the temperance movement, and churches got involved. The Salvation army did not even offer Holy Communion.

I believe the Holiness and Pentecostal totally anti-alcohol stance is more of a feature of history than anything in scripture. It's a product of a social movement that evolved out of a response to the social problems and drunkenness that followed the technology to distill strong alcoholic beverages cheaply.

The Bible doesn't outright forbid the consumption of alcohol. It warns against abuse of it. It teaches against getting drunk. But it does not say do not drink alcohol at all, not for non-Nazarites, who couldn't eat raisins or grapes either.

We should teach people to be sober and to be responsible with alcohol, but we shouldn't add to the word of God. I think it's a bad thing when religious people look down their noses on a fellow believer who drinks a glass of beer or wine with dinner. It may be that our Lord Jesus Himself would drink a glass of wine or beer with dinner. There was wine at Passover dinners. How could we condemn someone for that?

WWJD?
Friendly Face
Posts: 496
8/4/15 8:06 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: This is interesting, not sure who the author is Methocostal
Very good point Ernie. One small question I make is whether the absence of being mentioned recreationally means it is wrong in that context? If it were serious enough to be a problem recreationally, wouldn't it have been mentioned. In either case, did normal people have time for recreation and relazation in those days -- except to go to the Colesium to see the lions destroy the Christians. Seriously, was it normal at that time to have recreation such as we have today? I doubt Fishermen considering fishing as a recreation, but as a means of employment. I can't get the picture in my mind of the Jesus and the Disiples playing a little beach volleyball or dodgeball Smile

On a serious note, you do make a very good point of being a stumbling block for others and I had considered mentioning that earlier. On the other hand, having wine in your home, either for dinner or pleasure with your spouse is a different story than doing it at the local beer joint Smile



Ernie Long wrote:
Most ministers teach complete abstinence from alcoholic beverages. My
personal conclusion based on bible study is that the bible teaching is
really that of moderation and not complete abstinence. Just a few items I
base this conclusion on are as follows:
Jesus turned water to wine, Paul said to use a little for you stomachs
sake, and fermented wine beverage was a common drink of the times.

My question: Based on bible teachings, is it sinful to drink a glass of
wine during a romantic evening with your wife or have a beer at a social
gathering with co-workers or friends provided that you do so in moderation?

The New Testament does indicate at least by inference that Jesus drank wine
and it was a common beverage of the time. However, the word oinos which is
the general term for wine was used for freshly squeezed grape juice which
would be unfermented and it was also used to indicate fermented grape juice
which would be what we would call wine. The wine of Jesus' day was not as
intoxicating as it is today because we are told its strength was about a
part of today's wine with eight parts of water. That would certainly make
it much less intoxicating than the wine bought on today's market. The only
way we can tell if it was alcoholic or non-alcoholic would be the context
in which the word was used. When we find it being consumed by Jesus and his
followers it was always with a meal. Wine so used had little intoxicating
ability. Since they had no water purification facilities then and had
little knowledge of germs or bacteria wine was probably the safest thing
they had to drink at the time. Today there is no need to drink wine or any
other intoxicating beverage as we eat because we have so many beverages
available to drink without their having an intoxicating effect on us that we
do not recommend any type of alcoholic beverage.

Their use of the wine was at mealtime and not a recreational thing as it is
with much of contemporary society. We should shun anything that would have
a deleterious affect on our influence. If others see me drinking beer and
wine what is it going to do for my influence in a given community? We need
to be thinking about the example and message it conveys when others see us
drinking at any time. Is it going to aid my influence or hinder it in my
home community? is a question I must ask my self. What would Jesus do if he
were here?
Friendly Face
Posts: 496
8/4/15 8:14 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: A fair overview and response..... Methocostal
Very good points Spartan. But, you do further confuse my mind Smile Seriously, I appreciate your well presented thesis.

I guess I'm just wishy washy as I see both sides of the issue.


spartanfan wrote:
When we look at the subject of wine in the Scriptures, we find two main words-tirosh which usually refers to grape juice in its unfermented state, the way it comes from the press as a new agricultural product, and yayin, a word with less clear meanings.

In 30 of the 38 references to tirosh in the Old Testament it is paired with grain and oil, or oil alone, as products of the harvest used for tithe and taxes, etc. Two texts (Mic 6:15; Isa 62:8) refer to tirosh as the product of the grape; four texts (Prov 3:10; Joel 2:24; Mic 6:15; and Hos 9:2) speak of tirosh as produced by pressing. Only one text (Hos 4:11) suggests that tirosh may produce intoxication-and this text may actually be referring to early fermentation or to the practice of mixing new and old (fermented) wine.

Thus tirosh appears to refer almost exclusively to unfermented wine or grape juice. But yayin, the other main word that the Bible uses for wine, clearly means fermented wine in most cases.

The Old Testament uses the word yayin some 140 times. The Bible presents yayin in a negative light 60 times; in about 60 more cases it simply mentions it without making any value judgment, and in only 17 references does it possibly say something positive about it. Thus yayin, fermented wine, is spoken of negatively much more often that it is positively.

On the negative side, first of all, are the stories in which fermented wine produces bad results. Not many (if any) historical narratives in the Old Testament mention a beneficial outcome from the use of wine, but several end disastrously: the drunkenness of Noah (Gen 9:21); Lot (Gen 19:32-35); Nabal (1 Sam 25:36, 37); Amnon (2 Sam 13:28); Belshazzar (Dan 5:1-3); and Ahasuerus (Esth 1:1-10), for example. Isaiah (51:21); Jeremiah (23:9); Hosea (4:11; 7:5); Joel (1:5); and Habbakuk (2:15) are among the Bible prophets who point out the ill effects, both physical and moral, which intoxicating wine produces.

Proverbs 23:29-35 describes wine's immediate physical effects (red eyes and blurred vision), its immediate social effects (strife and wounds), as well as the long-term results (woe and sorrow). Elsewhere, the book of Proverbs refers to wine as producing poverty (21:17) and violence (4:17). Isaiah adds that it deceives the mind (28:7), inflames a person, and leads to forgetfulness of God (5:11, 12).

Those texts which point to certain useful functions of wine should not be overlooked, but they should be placed in perspective. Three texts (Ps 104:15; Eccl 9:7; 10:19) mention that wine can make the heart glad and bring cheer. This indicates an awareness of the immediate physiological effects of alcohol, but these texts need to be placed along side the many other Bible statements mentioning its nonbeneficial long-term results.
Ecclesiastes 9:7 and 10:19 might superficially appear to give approval for indulging in alcohol. In a bit of ancient philosophy, Ecclesiastes 9:7 says, "Go, eat your bread with enjoyment, and drink your wine with a merry heart; for God has already approved what you do." It is a description of the author's search for those things that bring meaning in life. This text is pointing out that man should be content with certain common duties of life-including eating and drinking, even wine. However, the book ends with the author's finding a greater good to provide meaning in life-that man should fear God and keep His commandments (chapter 12:13). All the other experiences in which the author tries to find meaning fade in significance beside this.

At least seven other Bible texts which appear to speak favorably of yayin do so merely by means of comparison; they are not speaking directly about wine itself. For example, the Song of Solomon uses a comparison with wine four times (1:2, 4; 4:10; and 7:9) to bring out the beloved's beauty. Hosea 14:7 uses the fragrance of wine from Lebanon as a comparison. Proverbs 9:5, 6 uses wine figuratively in talking about the "banquet of life" that wisdom provides. Amos 9:14 and Zechariah 10:7 use the merriment that wine creates as a figure of how God's people will rejoice at the time of His final victory.

Wine was also used as a drink offering in the temple service, just as we see that beer was used in the presentation of delayed tithe. These drink offerings were poured out beside the altar; they were not drunk by the priests.

Thus most of the texts which mention wine favorably actually use it figuratively in comparisons. A few speak of its immediate physiological effects. But by far the majority describe its detrimental results-such as wicked acts committed in connection with drinking wine.

Isaiah, for example, associates wine with the taking of bribes(5:22, 23). Amos combines wine with profaning sacred things (2:8 ).

In summary, the writers of the Old Testament raise four indictments against drinking wine. First, they recognize its immediate adverse physical effects-redness of the eyes, blurring of vision, staggering, and drunkenness in general. Second, they recognize its long-term moral effects-various kinds of immoral and unethical behavior along with the social results of such actions. Third, they identify particular instances of such behavior and connect them with specific persons. Fourth, because of its effects, they prohibit certain classes and specific individuals from drinking any wine.

In contrast to this large negative picture, about the only positive images the Bible gives of alcohol are three texts that note alcohol can produce a state of levity (certainly a valid physiological observation). The Bible writers also occasionally use wine to draw some favorable comparisons in figures of speech. (Yet they also use wine to symbolize some unfavorable comparisons as well. See the "wine of wrath" in Psalm 75:8 and Jeremiah 25:15).

How then should we personally relate to alcohol in view of the overall picture given in the Old Testament? If one takes the whole picture into account and evaluates all the evidence, the most reasonable conclusion is that the only safe course is complete abstinence from alcohol in any form- especially in this generation where we have many other choices of beverages.

My conclusion is that any preacher who advocates anything other than the Church of God position of total abstinence is dangerously directing souls toward bondage and perhaps encouraging them toward the Lake of Fire.

My opinion is that since we don't need alcoholic beverages and there is much more hurt, pain, suffering, loss, destruction and sin associated with it in the Bible as well in real life experiences than there is joy, peace, righteousness and godliness - the responsible decision is to leave it alone and always reach for a better choice.

That's my opinion. I think it is Scriptural and I know it makes good sense.
Friendly Face
Posts: 496
8/4/15 8:18 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Eddie Robbins
We like to use the Old Testament when it supports our views. if it doesn't support our views, we pass it off as just being the Old Testament. We do some of that in the New Testament as well, passing off some things as being "their culture."

This is why there are so many different views concerning many different subjects.
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16367
8/4/15 9:06 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Of course Wine was Wine in the Bible Purplebarney
The only reason the debate is out there is to justify doctrine. Lets be honest here. All you have to read is what the Bible says about wine and that is you should not be drunk or drink in excess. There is ABSOLUTELY ZERO reason for this scripture to be written and included in the Bible if Wine wasn't really Wine back then. Its that simple. Do I drink wine? ABSOLUTELY! Do I drink in excess? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Now.....see y'all up yonder in Heaven!
Acts-celerater
Posts: 704
8/4/15 9:22 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Da Sheik
Quote:
My conclusion is that any preacher who advocates anything other than the Church of God position of total abstinence is dangerously directing souls toward bondage and perhaps encouraging them toward the Lake of Fire.


With all due respect, I seriously doubt that most (if any) ministers "advocate" drinking as something people need as an add-on to their lives. What about the fact that the New Testament doesn't mention one scripture about total abtstinence? Does it bother you to make a law that isn't in Scripture? I'm not being contentious (it's so hard to convey emotion through a computer) but I respectfully disagree.
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1693
8/4/15 9:23 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Da Sheik
One of the most difficult things for a preacher or a Christian to do is to let go of a firmly held conviction, even when Scripture doesn't support it. God had to show Peter a vision 3 times (Acts 10:11-16) in order to get him to see that what God had cleansed was no longer common or unclean. Some people have convinced themselves that wine is the gift of the devil and so no amount of debate will change that. Only the Holy Spirit can help us to see what's really in the bible and what we have picked up as tradition along the way. This is true of any "disputable matter".

Paul summed it up best in Romans 14. He said the Kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking.
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1693
8/4/15 9:29 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post spartanfan
Da Sheik wrote:
Quote:
My conclusion is that any preacher who advocates anything other than the Church of God position of total abstinence is dangerously directing souls toward bondage and perhaps encouraging them toward the Lake of Fire.


With all due respect, I seriously doubt that most (if any) ministers "advocate" drinking as something people need as an add-on to their lives. What about the fact that the New Testament doesn't mention one scripture about total abtstinence? Does it bother you to make a law that isn't in Scripture? I'm not being contentious (it's so hard to convey emotion through a computer) but I respectfully disagree.


No, it doesn't bother me to have an opinion. I don't believe they want people in bondage and in danger of Hell. I believe they are making a mistake by not advocating total abstinence. I respectfully respond by saying the safest and most sensible position on this in my opinion is that of total abstinence.
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3628
8/4/15 9:35 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Ernie Long
I work with too many social drinkers who began to like the buzz so much that it led to alcoholism.

Before I was saved, I used to drink only when out with others who was drinking. It really had no appeal to me then, so just because I have the liberty to drink as a Christian now, why would I?

The world judges us hard enough as it is, why give them more ammo?
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1043
8/4/15 10:19 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Old Time Country Preacher
What about takin a little wine fer the tummy's sake?

My tummy hurts a lot!

Frequently!

I mean ever day most a the day.

So if I take just a little wine ever time it hurts, Im gonna be drunk bout half the time.

An what about wine? Did Paul mean just wine, or anything with alcohol in it (eg, vodker, tequiler, likker) cause a alcohols calming quality?
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15482
8/4/15 12:00 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Eddie Robbins
Actually, it was for his many infirmities. Which brings up another question. Where was his faith? Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16367
8/4/15 2:03 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Old Time Country Preacher
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Actually, it was for his many infirmities. Which brings up another question. Where was his faith?


Good question, Eddie.

SO good I created a thread to address it.
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15482
8/4/15 2:33 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post bradfreeman
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
What about takin a little wine fer the tummy's sake?

My tummy hurts a lot!

Frequently!

I mean ever day most a the day.

So if I take just a little wine ever time it hurts, Im gonna be drunk bout half the time.

An what about wine? Did Paul mean just wine, or anything with alcohol in it (eg, vodker, tequiler, likker) cause a alcohols calming quality?


You don't like Paul's advice?

I'm not surprised. There's a lot he says you wish he hadn't. Laughing
_________________
I'm not saved because I'm good. I'm saved because He's good!

My website: www.bradfreeman.com
My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/
Acts-dicted
Posts: 9027
8/4/15 2:58 pm


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post That's why..... spartanfan
See Brad - that's why people can't stand your comments on this board. You know full well that Paul was talking about the the use of wine for medicinal purposes. It is believed that Timothy needed it for that purpose but was so concerned about his testimony (since it was identified in the Word primarily in a bad light in association with foolishness and debauchery) that he wouldn't even drink it as a medicine until Paul recommended he do so.

From the Christian Courrier: "Wine was a widely recognized remedy for some illnesses among both Jews and Greeks, as reflected in the Hebrew Talmud, the writings of Hippocrates, Plutarch, and Pliny (Fee, p. 135). “Wine was often helpful in settling stomachs and preventing dysentery (it disinfected water)” (Keener, p. 619).....

Something of Timothy’s character is revealed. He had refrained even from the medicinal use of wine, a perfectly legitimate remedy, for the sake of his influence. Such was going too far, however. His service to Christ was more valuable than the possible damage that might be done by some misguided critic. Incidentally, this negates the speculation of some that “wine” here possibly was grape juice. The young man would hardly have needed exhortation to use a little grape juice with his water.......

This passage can hardly provide any comfort for those who desire to engage in the pleasurable consumption of beverage alcohol."

So Brad there you have it. And since we have better medicine available today it makes the use of wine totally unnecessary. Some doctors may recommend a glass for the Resveratrol in it but that's silly since Resveratrol is available in other ways that don't include alcohol (which damages just about every vital organ in our bodies).

Any justification of it is refusing to weigh the benefits against the costs of it to society in general. The World Cancer Research Fund and American Institute for Cancer Research: “….. there is convincing evidence linking alcohol use to cancer of the mouth, pharynx, larynx, esophagus, breast, and colon and rectum in men, and probable evidence that its use contributes to liver cancer and colorectal cancer in women. (18 ) The risk is multiplied for drinkers who also smoke tobacco.

Problem drinking also touches drinkers’ families, friends, and communities. According to the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism and others:

18.2 million Americans meet standard criteria for alcohol abuse or alcoholism. (19)
Alcohol plays a role in one in three cases of violent crime. (20)
More than 16,000 people die each year in automobile accidents in which alcohol is involved. (21)
Alcohol abuse costs more than $185 billion dollars a year. (22)
Even moderate drinking carries some risks. Alcohol can disrupt sleep. Its ability to cloud judgment is legendary.”

Brad – we just don’t need the stuff so the best choice for all Americans is to leave it alone. But we can agree to disagree since there are some pretty smart guys on both sides of the argument. It's just that the more spiritual ones are on my side
Wink


Last edited by spartanfan on 8/4/15 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3628
8/4/15 4:50 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Eddie Robbins
Should we pull out all the statistics about guns and use them to preach against owning a gun? Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16367
8/4/15 5:00 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Come on Eddie...... spartanfan
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Should we pull out all the statistics about guns and use them to preach against owning a gun?


the diversion tactic does nothing to enhance the conversation Smile
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3628
8/4/15 5:05 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: Come on Eddie...... Eddie Robbins
spartanfan wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Should we pull out all the statistics about guns and use them to preach against owning a gun?


the diversion tactic does nothing to enhance the conversation Smile


No tactic. It's a fair thought. None of those statistics have anything to do with me having a half glass of red wine each night.
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16367
8/4/15 5:08 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Actscelerate.com Forum Index -> Feature Presentations This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Page 2 of 8

 
Jump to:  
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Acts-celerate Terms of Use | Acts-celerate Policy
World News Network | Acts-celerate Chat
Contact the Administrator.


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group :: Spelling by SpellingCow.