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My pick for the new General Overseer
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Post I don't know who.... spartanfan
If I had to vote today (glad I don't have to) I don't know who to vote for. But what I'm hearing in my unimportant and noninfluential circles are names like: Tim Hill, Raymond Culpepper, James Stevens, Dennis McGuire (yeah - really) and Bill Isaacs. The biggest suprise may be Kevin Wallace (but doubt he'll take it) and of course you also hear talk of Tommy Propes, Mitch Maloney, John Childers, Tommy Madden and Bryan Cutshall.

I would guess Hill, Culpepper and Stevens are a given. The other 2 are up for grabs. I would like to see a mix of old, young, experienced and new. But with any of those listed above - we can't go wrong as they are all great men of God. And there are some not mentioned who would do well also.

It's a bright day ahead for the Church of God!
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8/8/15 2:32 pm


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Post Re: I don't know who.... spartanfan
Tom Sterbens wrote:
spartanfan wrote:
If I had to vote today (glad I don't have to) I don't know who to vote for. But what I'm hearing in my unimportant and noninfluential circles are names like: Tim Hill, Raymond Culpepper, James Stevens, Dennis McGuire (yeah - really) and Bill Isaacs. The biggest suprise may be Kevin Wallace (but doubt he'll take it) and of course you also hear talk of Tommy Propes, Mitch Maloney, John Childers, Tommy Madden and Bryan Cutshall.

I would guess Hill, Culpepper and Stevens are a given. The other 2 are up for grabs. I would like to see a mix of old, young, experienced and new. But with any of those listed above - we can't go wrong as they are all great men of God. And there are some not mentioned who would do well also.

It's a bright day ahead for the Church of God!

I have initiated several conversations with Kevin Wallace, as well as a couple other "electable" pastors about this very thing, largely because I believe it would be wonderful to have some pastors voted on to the committee. In each of the conversations Kevin has engaged me with humility and an absence of presumption about such a consideration. What he has NOT done in any way shape, form or fashion is indicate he would NOT accept the nomination, in fact, I am convinced very much that he would accept the nomination.

And I would say NOTHING is a "given" at the 2016 General Assembly.
Social media and the internet has changed everything. You cannot "say nothing can change," ever since 2008 in San Antonio. The 2016 General Assembly is going to be as catalytic as any we've had! I'm looking forward to it!


Wow! That is surprising. And coming from you - substantive! But we can revisit the "givens" I articulated following the 2016 assembly Smile
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8/8/15 5:59 pm


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Post Re: I don't know who.... Clint Wills
Tom Sterbens wrote:
spartanfan wrote:
If I had to vote today (glad I don't have to) I don't know who to vote for. But what I'm hearing in my unimportant and noninfluential circles are names like: Tim Hill, Raymond Culpepper, James Stevens, Dennis McGuire (yeah - really) and Bill Isaacs. The biggest suprise may be Kevin Wallace (but doubt he'll take it) and of course you also hear talk of Tommy Propes, Mitch Maloney, John Childers, Tommy Madden and Bryan Cutshall.

I would guess Hill, Culpepper and Stevens are a given. The other 2 are up for grabs. I would like to see a mix of old, young, experienced and new. But with any of those listed above - we can't go wrong as they are all great men of God. And there are some not mentioned who would do well also.

It's a bright day ahead for the Church of God!

I have initiated several conversations with Kevin Wallace, as well as a couple other "electable" pastors about this very thing, largely because I believe it would be wonderful to have some pastors voted on to the committee. In each of the conversations Kevin has engaged me with humility and an absence of presumption about such a consideration. What he has NOT done in any way shape, form or fashion is indicate he would NOT accept the nomination, in fact, I am convinced very much that he would accept the nomination.

And I would say NOTHING is a "given" at the 2016 General Assembly.
Social media and the internet has changed everything. You cannot "say nothing can change," ever since 2008 in San Antonio. The 2016 General Assembly is going to be as catalytic as any we've had! I'm looking forward to it!


What if Kevin was elected to the EC and DIDN'T resign his church?? That could be a change to the culture of the COG....one that I would welcome in fact.
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8/13/15 2:50 pm


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Post Eddie Robbins
The Southern Baptist do it and they're much larger. Acts-pert Poster
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8/13/15 4:51 pm


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Post Tom Sterbens & Clint Willis JimmieDavis
Even though I'd love to that happen, isn't that a violation of the COG minutes? Friendly Face
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8/14/15 3:13 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
Eddie Robbins wrote:
The Southern Baptist do it and they're much larger.


The President of the Southern Baptist Convention is not a full-time denominational administrative head who needs to move to headquarters and devote himself full-time to the office.

God bless the Southern Baptists. I mean that sincerely. I realize our polity in the CoG could definitely be improved in some ways, but I hope (perhaps against hope) that the CoG never adopts a fully congregational form of government like the Baptists have.
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8/14/15 4:15 pm


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Post Clint Wills
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
The Southern Baptist do it and they're much larger.


The President of the Southern Baptist Convention is not a full-time denominational administrative head who needs to move to headquarters and devote himself full-time to the office.

God bless the Southern Baptists. I mean that sincerely. I realize our polity in the CoG could definitely be improved in some ways, but I hope (perhaps against hope) that the CoG never adopts a fully congregational form of government like the Baptists have.


Yeah...it hasn't worked very well for the SBC and their 16 million members.
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8/14/15 4:35 pm


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Post Re: Tom Sterbens & Clint Willis Clint Wills
JimmieDavis wrote:
Even though I'd love to that happen, isn't that a violation of the COG minutes?


I don't know the answer to that, but if it is, then lets change that too!!
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8/14/15 4:35 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
Clint Wills wrote:
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
The Southern Baptist do it and they're much larger.


The President of the Southern Baptist Convention is not a full-time denominational administrative head who needs to move to headquarters and devote himself full-time to the office.

God bless the Southern Baptists. I mean that sincerely. I realize our polity in the CoG could definitely be improved in some ways, but I hope (perhaps against hope) that the CoG never adopts a fully congregational form of government like the Baptists have.


Yeah...it hasn't worked very well for the SBC and their 16 million members.


Actually, you're right. It doesn't work very well for them. The Roman Cathoiic Church is the biggest in numbers in the whole world, and they're more centralized than the CoG by far.
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8/14/15 4:57 pm


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Post diakoneo
If we have top officials who are unelected can we solve problems by electing the "right" executive committee?

I think not!
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8/16/15 1:46 pm


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Post Kevin Walker
Eddie Robbins wrote:
The Southern Baptist do it and they're much larger.


I've thought about that, too.
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8/16/15 8:10 pm


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Post diakoneo
Tom Sterbens wrote:
diakoneo wrote:
If we have top officials who are unelected can we solve problems by electing the "right" executive committee?

I think not!

Can you unpack that a bit more please? Not quite sure what it means.

Thanks


I am referring to another thread on Acts:
http://www.actscelerate.com/viewtopic.php?t=83280&start=20

In it is the following quote from David Ray;
Quote:
Testimony from David Ray, who is the current director of communications for the church, testified about the role Carter played in the church�s administration, and showed Carter�s position was next to the highest role in the church. His position pays $115,000 to $125,00 per year.


Notice the "next to the highest role. His salary is quoted at between $115.000 and $125,000. "Apex of the Church of God" was another term used.

I had never heard of Scott Carter until this scandal broke. He was an unelected official and yet he, apparently, had much influence.

We have many great preachers, teachers and evangelists in the Church. Just because you are a great preacher/teacher and have pastored large churches and have a big name, it doesn't necessarily follow that you are a "great" administrator.

Electing officials is not the solution to problems like the Carter scandal. It looks like, at times, we are run like a "mom and pop" family owned business. That is my opinion, but in the Carter situation, I think that opinion is the right one.

We are an international church and should operate as such.
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8/17/15 7:43 am


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Post Eddie Robbins
The irony here is that Scot was not a minister and not elected. This is exactly they type person that many thought we needed to help administer the COG. The bottom line is that people are people regardless. Elected, not elected, preacher or not, there is no guarantee that you won't have problems. It is pretty easy to sit on the couch and write about how it should be. Me included. Acts-pert Poster
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8/17/15 8:01 am


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Post diakoneo
Eddie Robbins wrote:
The irony here is that Scot was not a minister and not elected. This is exactly they type person that many thought we needed to help administer the COG. The bottom line is that people are people regardless. Elected, not elected, preacher or not, there is no guarantee that you won't have problems. It is pretty easy to sit on the couch and write about how it should be. Me included.


Yes. And how exactly did he come to retain such a position in the Church of God. That is the problem.
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8/17/15 9:19 am


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Post My PIck Change Agent
Our pick doesn't matter, he has already been picked. There is probably not many on this board that would fail to name him on their first guess.

Why is it always that way?
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8/18/15 9:54 am


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Post Eddie Robbins
diakoneo wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
The irony here is that Scot was not a minister and not elected. This is exactly they type person that many thought we needed to help administer the COG. The bottom line is that people are people regardless. Elected, not elected, preacher or not, there is no guarantee that you won't have problems. It is pretty easy to sit on the couch and write about how it should be. Me included.


Yes. And how exactly did he come to retain such a position in the Church of God. That is the problem.


Communications Director is not an elected position. I guess that's because the preachers would elect somebody like Jentezen Franklin because it's a popular name. It needed to be someone with specific expertise in that area and Scot's resume said he was. Look, anybody can fall. Many, many preachers have fallen for things not having to do with sex. In fact, we lost a General Overseer not that long ago. So, there is no fool proof way to do this. It's easy to say they should have known or how could they hire somebody like that from a distance.
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8/18/15 10:21 am


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Post Re: My PIck Eddie Robbins
Change Agent wrote:
Our pick doesn't matter, he has already been picked. There is probably not many on this board that would fail to name him on their first guess.

Why is it always that way?


True. Tim Hill will be the GO. Everybody knows it.
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8/18/15 10:22 am


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Post Nature Boy Florida
diakoneo wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
The irony here is that Scot was not a minister and not elected. This is exactly they type person that many thought we needed to help administer the COG. The bottom line is that people are people regardless. Elected, not elected, preacher or not, there is no guarantee that you won't have problems. It is pretty easy to sit on the couch and write about how it should be. Me included.


Yes. And how exactly did he come to retain such a position in the Church of God. That is the problem.


Agreed.

Was he really more skillful - or was he related to someone?

Was he already in Cleveland - which made him apparently seem smarter than those from California - because when we hire the "best and brightest" at HQ - they always seem to already live in Cleveland. Amazing.

I sure don't remember an open position advertised (with starting salary) in any publication of the Church?
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8/18/15 10:34 am


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Post Re: I don't know who.... Nature Boy Florida
Tom Sterbens wrote:
spartanfan wrote:
If I had to vote today (glad I don't have to) I don't know who to vote for. But what I'm hearing in my unimportant and noninfluential circles are names like: Tim Hill, Raymond Culpepper, James Stevens, Dennis McGuire (yeah - really) and Bill Isaacs. The biggest suprise may be Kevin Wallace (but doubt he'll take it) and of course you also hear talk of Tommy Propes, Mitch Maloney, John Childers, Tommy Madden and Bryan Cutshall.

I would guess Hill, Culpepper and Stevens are a given. The other 2 are up for grabs. I would like to see a mix of old, young, experienced and new. But with any of those listed above - we can't go wrong as they are all great men of God. And there are some not mentioned who would do well also.

It's a bright day ahead for the Church of God!

I have initiated several conversations with Kevin Wallace, as well as a couple other "electable" pastors about this very thing, largely because I believe it would be wonderful to have some pastors voted on to the committee. In each of the conversations Kevin has engaged me with humility and an absence of presumption about such a consideration. What he has NOT done in any way shape, form or fashion is indicate he would NOT accept the nomination, in fact, I am convinced very much that he would accept the nomination.

And I would say NOTHING is a "given" at the 2016 General Assembly.
Social media and the internet has changed everything. You cannot "say nothing can change," ever since 2008 in San Antonio. The 2016 General Assembly is going to be as catalytic as any we've had! I'm looking forward to it!


Do we want Kevin Wallace waiting tables? He is blazing new trails in East Tennessee - do we want to slow that down?

With that said....IMHO - young guys can do a lot more than old ones. When Charles Conn and Ray Hughes and their contemporaries came in - they were young - and the church experienced exponential growth.

That is the pattern we ought to follow.

I don't have a vote - but I would vote for KW in an instant.
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8/18/15 10:38 am


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Post Travis Johnson
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
diakoneo wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
The irony here is that Scot was not a minister and not elected. This is exactly they type person that many thought we needed to help administer the COG. The bottom line is that people are people regardless. Elected, not elected, preacher or not, there is no guarantee that you won't have problems. It is pretty easy to sit on the couch and write about how it should be. Me included.


Yes. And how exactly did he come to retain such a position in the Church of God. That is the problem.


Agreed.

Was he really more skillful - or was he related to someone?

Was he already in Cleveland - which made him apparently seem smarter than those from California - because when we hire the "best and brightest" at HQ - they always seem to already live in Cleveland. Amazing.

I sure don't remember an open position advertised (with starting salary) in any publication of the Church?


When a Communications Director position is open, we ought to go into a legitimate search to land the best person possible.

When a pastoral position is open, we ought to go into a legitimate search to land the best person possible.

When we are hiring Administrative Bishops, we ought to go into a legitimate search to land the best people possible.

When we are electing the Executive Committee or the C18, we ought to go into a legitimate search to land the best people possible.



Our reality is that we have a closed loop process for hiring.

Pastoral openings are not advertised. Selection of pastors is relational. We advance safety. And, generally, we make the most conservative moves or most relational moves possible as it pertains to pastoral leadership.

The EC and C18 are selected based on name recognition, a process too heavily influenced by invitations to speak at camp meetings. Those invitations are extended by Administrative Bishops who are appointed by the EC. This is possibly the most closed loop in our fellowship. Sometimes, people break into the loop. But, largely, this is a small group of people.

We ought to, at the very least, have some sort of position paper/vision paper published by each potential leader. Don't we want to select leaders based on where they want to take us? Why would we leave this information out of the equation when asking God to help us in deploying effective, godly leaders to help us navigate the Great Commission as a denominational family?

We could go on and on about these realities. We need to reform how we on-board our leaders. We do have some great leaders. But, we are not retaining our best young pastors/planters. And, we are selecting our denominational leaders from a relatively small pool. That doesn't mean the people in the pool aren't wonderful people and good leaders. They are. But, the pool needs to be expanded.
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