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Jesus did not speak about homosexuality. Why not?
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Post Jesus did not speak about homosexuality. Why not? doyle
The latest argument by some in the so-called gay community, say that since Jesus did not speak about homosexuality, it means he was not opposed to it. The issue has been reignited by some of Jimmy Carter's remarks that Jesus would have approved of gay marriage.

There was some discussion of this topic on the board some months ago but with some of the recent news events concerning gay marriage, why do you feel Jesus did not address homosexuality in his teachings? Possibly your answer and or reasoning, will help others who are confronted with this theory.

D
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7/9/15 8:29 am


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Post Resident Skeptic
He hardly mentioned adultery and fornication either (fornication would have covered homosexuality). So does that mean he was ok with those as well?
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Post Jesus did teach ... Mat
Jesus did teach that marriage was between a man and a women, and that the only other option was a life of celibacy. It takes a total lack of spiritual insight to arrive at the conclusion that Jesus' lack of specific condemnation of homosexuality is somehow an endorsement of that lifestyle (what then of incest and bestiality?). This is the very act of being legalistic concerning scriptural interpretation. Jesus was dealing with this very attitude when they said to him, "is it lawful to put away your wife for any cause?". Looking for the absences of commandment to justify braking the reveal truth of God's Word is a step back from relationship with the "fullness" of Christ.

Mat

PS I just realized that RS and I may agree on this point.
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Post Mat is right Mark Hardgrove
Once Jesus defined what marriage is, anything that deviates from that, is what marriage is not. Those people who say Jesus didn't say anything about homosexuality are mindless products of a culture that embraces the continuing decline of human dignity and moral values. Moses, Jesus (in two Gospels), and Paul all clearly define, without deviation or variation what marriage is, a man and a wife. The Greek is clear about a male and female identity for the two parties. Insisting that specific comments in red by Jesus must be in the Bible before we can have clarity on a topic is inane.

If I tell someone what a circle is and they keep trying to convince me that a square, or a triangle, or rectangle is a circle, I will eventually come to the conclusion that the individual doing this either has no concern for the truth, or they are mentally challenged. I see both on this topic.
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Post Bro Bob
Very good stuff. I like the circle analogy. Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
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Post Lets look at it this way... Clint Wills
I read this recently, so I can't take credit for it - though I forget who wrote it.

If we believe in the Trinity, and therefore Jesus and God are one. And we also believe that all scripture is God breathed. Then isn't it safe to say that Jesus DID address homosexuality throughout the Bible? the gospels are NOT the entirety of the Bible, and anyone who uses Jesus' life as the ONLY authoritative guidance for our lives is being ridiculous. The things that Paul, Peter, and John wrote are all just as much the Word of God as the gospels.
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Post Old Time Country Preacher
Jesus didn't say a thing about smoking crack on Tuesdays at 3:30 PM, does at mean its OK? Acts-pert Poster
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Post Jesus did address the subject... Mark Ledbetter
indirectly:

Quote:
Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city - Matthew 10:15 (see context)

Nevertheless I say to you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for you - Matthew 11:24 (see context)

but on the day Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all - Luke 17:29 (see context)


Any Jew hearing these references would certainly know why Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed.

The punishment of these cities became a benchmark for judgment that Jesus declares will be doled out in the Final Judgment.
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Post Re: Lets look at it this way... Old Time Country Preacher
Clint Wills wrote:
I read this recently, so I can't take credit for it - though I forget who wrote it.

If we believe in the Trinity, and therefore Jesus and God are one. And we also believe that all scripture is God breathed. Then isn't it safe to say that Jesus DID address homosexuality throughout the Bible? the gospels are NOT the entirety of the Bible, and anyone who uses Jesus' life as the ONLY authoritative guidance for our lives is being ridiculous. The things that Paul, Peter, and John wrote are all just as much the Word of God as the gospels.


Excellent post, Clint, an very true.
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Post bradfreeman
Resident Skeptic wrote:
He hardly mentioned adultery and fornication either (fornication would have covered homosexuality). So does that mean he was ok with those as well?


He didn't "hardly" condemn homosexuality. He didn't, as has been pointed out, mention it at all. What His silence means is the question.

To argue that Moses is God's definitive position on anything ignores the massive changes that occurred under the new covenant. Having said that, denouncing sexual immorality (fornication) as defined by the law should include all prohibited Lev. 18 activity - man on man sex.

Moses didn't define marriage as 1 man - 1 woman. God OK'd and blessed and sanctioned multiple wives in the lives of the patriarchs (even the 12 tribes were born of 2 wives and 2 maids) and by only prohibiting additional wives who were near kin to each other (Lev. 18:17,18 ). The church's insistence that the Bible defines marriage as 1 man - 1 woman is just nuts.

God described the process of leaving parents to be joined to a wife, but describing the process hardly limits the times it can occur.

If we were only obsessed, as a church culture, with His exceeding great and precious promises (not laws and sin), we'd see much more of His divine nature revealed in us.
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Post Patrick Harris
bradfreeman wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
He hardly mentioned adultery and fornication either (fornication would have covered homosexuality). So does that mean he was ok with those as well?


He didn't "hardly" condemn homosexuality. He didn't, as has been pointed out, mention it at all. What His silence means is the question.

To argue that Moses is God's definitive position on anything ignores the massive changes that occurred under the new covenant. Having said that, denouncing sexual immorality (fornication) as defined by the law should include all prohibited Lev. 18 activity - man on man sex.

Moses didn't define marriage as 1 man - 1 woman. God OK'd and blessed and sanctioned multiple wives in the lives of the patriarchs (even the 12 tribes were born of 2 wives and 2 maids) and by only prohibiting additional wives who were near kin to each other (Lev. 18:17,18 ). The church's insistence that the Bible defines marriage as 1 man - 1 woman is just nuts.

God described the process of leaving parents to be joined to a wife, but describing the process hardly limits the times it can occur.

If we were only obsessed, as a church culture, with His exceeding great and precious promises (not laws and sin), we'd see much more of His divine nature revealed in us.

SMH Rolling Eyes
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Post This reminds me of something tucked away in the archives bonnie knox
http://www.actscelerate.com/viewtopic.php?t=29279&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
(just in case anyone wants to reminisce about the good ole days)

Quote:
Moses didn't define marriage as 1 man - 1 woman. God OK'd and blessed and sanctioned multiple wives in the lives of the patriarchs (even the 12 tribes were born of 2 wives and 2 maids) and by only prohibiting additional wives who were near kin to each other (Lev. 18:17,18 ). The church's insistence that the Bible defines marriage as 1 man - 1 woman is just nuts.
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Post Link
I believe there was one translation of the Peshitta text into English of 'raca' in Matthew 5, a slur that could make one in danger of the counsel, translated it to refer to a homosexual. If Jesus was saying that if you called your brother a fag, you were in danger of the counsel, then being one must not be a very good thing. I'm not convinced that's the right understanding of the word.

Jesus lived in a conservative Jewish culture. There was not 'freedom of religion' like we have today. The Jews probably would have stoned someone for engaging in homosexual behavior if they could, or otherwise expelled them, so it would likely have been hidden if it existed, not something prevalent in the Jewish subculture.

Here is a quote from a Jewish website about the topic that refers to the Talmud from <http://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/homosexuality-and-halakhah/2/>
Quote:

Rabbinic literature assumes that Jews are not homosexual. For example, the Mishnah presents the following disagreement between Rabbi Judah and the Sages: “R. Judah said: A bachelor should not herd animals, nor should two bachelors share a single blanket. The Sages permit it.” The halakhah follows the Sages because the Talmud says, “Israel is not suspected of homosexuality.”

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Post Re: Lets look at it this way... Eddie Robbins
Clint Wills wrote:
I read this recently, so I can't take credit for it - though I forget who wrote it.

If we believe in the Trinity, and therefore Jesus and God are one. And we also believe that all scripture is God breathed. Then isn't it safe to say that Jesus DID address homosexuality throughout the Bible? the gospels are NOT the entirety of the Bible, and anyone who uses Jesus' life as the ONLY authoritative guidance for our lives is being ridiculous. The things that Paul, Peter, and John wrote are all just as much the Word of God as the gospels.


I have also heard it said that if Jesus is God, then believing in God is sufficient for salvation. So, if you use it for one, you have to use it for all.
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Post Nature Boy Florida
Nature teaches that all sexual activity is between a male and female.
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Post Re: This reminds me of something tucked away in the archives Cojak
bonnie knox wrote:
http://www.actscelerate.com/viewtopic.php?t=29279&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
(just in case anyone wants to reminisce about the good ole days)

Quote:
Moses didn't define marriage as 1 man - 1 woman. God OK'd and blessed and sanctioned multiple wives in the lives of the patriarchs (even the 12 tribes were born of 2 wives and 2 maids) and by only prohibiting additional wives who were near kin to each other (Lev. 18:17,18 ). The church's insistence that the Bible defines marriage as 1 man - 1 woman is just nuts.


BlessedinTNMS (?) put on a good show back then. Shocked
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7/14/15 5:57 pm


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Post Resident Skeptic
bradfreeman wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
He hardly mentioned adultery and fornication either (fornication would have covered homosexuality). So does that mean he was ok with those as well?


He didn't "hardly" condemn homosexuality. He didn't, as has been pointed out, mention it at all. What His silence means is the question.

To argue that Moses is God's definitive position on anything ignores the massive changes that occurred under the new covenant. Having said that, denouncing sexual immorality (fornication) as defined by the law should include all prohibited Lev. 18 activity - man on man sex.

Moses didn't define marriage as 1 man - 1 woman. God OK'd and blessed and sanctioned multiple wives in the lives of the patriarchs (even the 12 tribes were born of 2 wives and 2 maids) and by only prohibiting additional wives who were near kin to each other (Lev. 18:17,18 ). The church's insistence that the Bible defines marriage as 1 man - 1 woman is just nuts.

God described the process of leaving parents to be joined to a wife, but describing the process hardly limits the times it can occur.

If we were only obsessed, as a church culture, with His exceeding great and precious promises (not laws and sin), we'd see much more of His divine nature revealed in us.


He mentioned "porneo" which is ALL unlawful sexual activity. Homosexuality would be covered under that.

This thread is missing the point IMO. Jesus said he came to fulfill the Law. It was prophesied that the Messiah would honor and exalt the Law. God's law is spiritual, but we are carnal. God knew we could not live lawfully in our unregenerate state. Christ took care of that.

Thus in the gospel we see a message of how God came to deliver us from our unlawfulness. There was no need to list in detail every little thing in God's Law that we have broken. If we break one part of the Law we have broken the whole thing. Christ didn't go into detail into MANY things we know are unlawful. Again, that is not the point of the gospels. Silence should not be misinterpreted as a license.
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Last edited by Resident Skeptic on 7/15/15 10:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post In Matthew ... Mat
In Matthew Jesus not only responds to the issue of just cause for divorce, he embraces the creative order of marriage (and thus divinely prescribed sexuality) that pre-dates the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses, which is God-given, reveals man's sinful nature, his inability to be justified by the Law and the need for and identity of the Messiah who could save man. As scripture tells us, if the first covenant had been perfect there would have been no need for a second covenant.

Such truths (one man, one women in marriage; don't shed innocent blood; no idols; blood sacrifice to cover sin, etc.) were revealed long before Moses and continue in the second covenant through Christ. Individual sexual practices and spirituality are linked through out the New Testament. There are few activities (idol worship; taking the name of God in vain; murder, etc) that have as much affect of our "whole man" relationship with God than what sexual practices we engage in.

To dis-associate how we conduct our lives concerning sex to violate one or perhaps both of the two great commandments Jesus taught.

Mat
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Post Re: This reminds me of something tucked away in the archives Old Time Country Preacher
bonnie knox wrote:
http://www.actscelerate.com/viewtopic.php?t=29279&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
(just in case anyone wants to reminisce about the good ole days)

Quote:
Moses didn't define marriage as 1 man - 1 woman. God OK'd and blessed and sanctioned multiple wives in the lives of the patriarchs (even the 12 tribes were born of 2 wives and 2 maids) and by only prohibiting additional wives who were near kin to each other (Lev. 18:17,18 ). The church's insistence that the Bible defines marriage as 1 man - 1 woman is just nuts.



It would seem the propagator of the above interpretation allowd his view of orthodoxy to influence his orthopraxy. Embarassed
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Post Re: In Matthew ... Resident Skeptic
Mat wrote:
In Matthew Jesus not only responds to the issue of just cause for divorce, he embraces the creative order of marriage (and thus divinely prescribed sexuality) that pre-dates the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses, which is God-given, reveals man's sinful nature, his inability to be justified by the Law and the need for and identity of the Messiah who could save man. As scripture tells us, if the first covenant had been perfect there would have been no need for a second covenant.

Such truths (one man, one women in marriage; don't shed innocent blood; no idols; blood sacrifice to cover sin, etc.) were revealed long before Moses and continue in the second covenant through Christ. Individual sexual practices and spirituality are linked through out the New Testament. There are few activities (idol worship; taking the name of God in vain; murder, etc) that have as much affect of our "whole man" relationship with God than what sexual practices we engage in.

To dis-associate how we conduct our lives concerning sex to violate one or perhaps both of the two great commandments Jesus taught.

Mat


Very well said.
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