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Loran Livingston: I believe in Eternal Security
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Post diakoneo
2 Peter 1:10 says make your calling and election sure (stedfast or firm).

Calling is invitation. It is your invitation to the marriage supper that God has prepared.

Election is what Christ talks about in Matthew 22 where one is found at the marriage supper without a wedding garment. He said many are called (invited) but few are chosen (elect).

I believe in the eternal security of the chosen saints.

God will choose and we have an opportunity now to choose to take His invitation seriously.
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6/22/15 12:39 pm


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Post bonnie knox
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
Da Sheik wrote:
It seems that churches who believe in forfeiting salvation have a much higher rate of "backsliding" than those who don't teach it.


Ats cause the folk in the OSAS churches don't know its possible to backslide. Once ya know its possible to backslide, hey, folk just automatically do it periodically. Ats why we got revivals, to git folk back right with the good Lord.


Ole Timer, I thank at's what them edjumacated fellers call orthodoxy and orthopraxy. In other words, if ya believe it ya ortta practice it. An that's what them Pennycostals do when they believe in backslidin. Why they commence to practicin it.
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6/22/15 1:22 pm


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Post Re: OTCP Old Time Country Preacher
JimmieDavis wrote:
That is the dumbest thing you've ever posted. And that's saying something.

Ps Doyle I really thought hard about what word I should use to describe his post. Dumbest was fitting. If that is calling names please allow my pardon.


Its called a joke, Jimbo.

Son, didn't you ever watch Letterman? I know its Monday an all, but you gotta loosen up a little an smile ever once in a while.
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6/22/15 1:36 pm


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Post Old Time Country Preacher
bonnie knox wrote:
I thank at's what them edjumacated fellers call orthodoxy and orthopraxy.


My goodness an all, Bonnie. The ole timer had to git him a dictionary to find out what you was even talkin bout. Where in the world did you come across words like at?

Now I knowed what "ortho" was, cause I had to take one a ma little ones to a orthodonnyist to git some wisdom teeth pulled an all.

But "doxy" and "praxy," I aint never met them fellers.
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6/22/15 1:41 pm


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Post Livingston revstevef
I do not believe that Livingston, sees himself holding to the doctrine of OSAS or even unconditional eternal security. If he would be holding to those doctrines as typically expressed, he would be walking in erroneous doctrine.

In a day where many hold to the ultra grace doctrine, which I find erroneous as well, many are wanting to allow the idea of practicing sin as acceptable. I do not believe that is what Livingston is saying.

No sin will enter the kingdom, sin at is root is rebellion. If we love God and live a consecrated and dedicated life to God, then I do not believe one would walk in rebellion. If we willfully disobey God, and rebel against the word their is no longer a sacrifice for sin and we must repent.

Yet if we are endeavoring to please God and walk uprightly, little mistakes (not willful sins) will be kept in check through the Holy Spirit. So we can believe in being secure in Christ, as long as we are pressing toward the mark of the high calling of God.
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6/22/15 3:42 pm


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Post Change Agent
I've been looking for RAF and OTCP to give us their usual heretic comment when they hear non-COG are preaching OSAS or eternal security. But I knew they wouldn't jump on a fella COG preacher that way. Laughing
Now don't be a respecter of persons and not do your jobs.
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6/22/15 3:50 pm


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Post Re: God called preachers! c6thplayer1
bonnie knox wrote:
What if everybody starts out with their names in the book and only lose heaven when their name is blotted out? Is there a place in scripture that describes salvation as having one's name written in the Lamb's book of life? I know we sing (or used to sing) lots of songs about our name being written. But what if "written" is the default, and the only change is when it's blotted out?


4golf wrote:
I will make this "Crystal" clear! If a preacher, weather; Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostal you name all; If they say I don't preach a book or chapter of Gods Word, then yes they are not called by God! A God called preacher will preach what God and the Holy Spirit tells them to preach. If you can preach what you want to you are called by yourself! There has been "ALOT" sermons I did not want to preach, but that is not what God called me to do. I notice no argument about Scriptures Psalms 69:28, Revelation 3;5, Revelation 22:19 about having your name removes from the lambs Book of Life. I have "NEVER" had one of the great calvinest, once saved always saved boys say anything after asking them about those three scriptures, one Jesus Himself says he would remove there name! Like I say; This is the fact mam"! If you don't like it take it up with God!!!


Bonnie , wouldnt a newly born child be written in the book of life by default?
If so then would the name be blotted out when they reach the age of accountability and sinned or did not receive Jesus in their hearts?
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6/22/15 4:35 pm


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Post Old Time Country Preacher
Change Agent wrote:
I've been looking for RAF and OTCP to give us their usual heretic comment when they hear non-COG are preaching OSAS or eternal security. But I knew they wouldn't jump on a fella COG preacher that way. Laughing
Now don't be a respecter of persons and not do your jobs.




Ummm, it might be possible, but I don't know that ever called a OSAS preacher a heretic. Even though I don't believe OSAS, I can 10 times better deal with a OSAS feller than a wacko woffie.
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6/22/15 4:47 pm


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Post Loran Livingston Herman Knapp
Well, I'm glad somebody finally had to guts to say something other than we are "SAVED", but have to depend on our daily performance to give any assurance of salvation. Now, I believe that I can can go to hell if I want to bad enough (I.E) I WILLFULLY DENOUNCE THE LORDSHIP OF JESUS AND THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, but short of that I don't believe that my inconsistent day-to-day living is going to undo the power of Jesus' payment of my sin-debt on the cross and His resurrection as the FIRSTBORN from the dead. Friendly Face
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6/22/15 6:12 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Again, Loran was moved by folks on their deathbed wondering if they are saved - or are not saved due to some sin they can't remember. I believe Loran's dad had that fear - and it made Loran angry to believe we (including himself) had allowed that type of fear to trouble our COG saints on their deathbed. This teaching is in response to that.
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6/22/15 6:56 pm


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Post Cojak
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Again, Loran was moved by folks on their deathbed wondering if they are saved - or are not saved due to some sin they can't remember. I believe Loran's dad had that fear - and it made Loran angry to believe we (including himself) had allowed that type of fear to trouble our COG saints on their deathbed. This teaching is in response to that.

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6/23/15 12:17 am


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Post c6thplayer..... Purplebarney
good post and I would like to hear Bonnie's response. I disagree with her post but I disagree with much respect as I know she is a good person and a frequent poster here.

I just have a difficult time believing someone is a Christian then loses their temper and may let a 4 letter word slip and is all of a sudden hell bound.
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6/23/15 8:35 pm


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Post Re: c6thplayer..... bonnie knox
Purplebarney wrote:
good post and I would like to hear Bonnie's response. I disagree with her post but I disagree with much respect as I know she is a good person and a frequent poster here.


I do not know the answer as to "age of accountability," etc.
I just wanted to give 4golf something to chew on with respect to when a person's name is actually written in the book of life.
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6/23/15 8:56 pm


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Post Cojak
Da Sheik wrote:
The great "black hole" argument of the theological universe. Everybody line up in their corner with their favorite proof texts. I believe in eternal security for those who are really saved. God knew every rotten thing you would ever do in this life before He called you. That didn't deter Him then and doesn't deter Him now.

But for those who enjoy "trap door" theology I don't expect you to see it my way. You know the irony of it all? It seems that churches who believe in forfeiting salvation have a much higher rate of "backsliding" than those who don't teach it. Take that to the bank. OSAS churches tend to have saints that "hang in there" and non-OSAS have folks that quit going to church or get saved again in every revival.


I like the comment my friend, I have never heard it called 'Trap Door' theology, but I remember feeling like that. Yeah, I liked this. Cool
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6/23/15 9:04 pm


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Post Maybe we need a statement like that of the AoG on the matter spartanfan
Here's their take on it:
Although the Assemblies of God adheres basically to the Arminian position on the spiritual security of the believer, there are extremes and potential abuses which must be avoided. The Christian life is not a roller coaster of Sunday salvation and Monday through Saturday backsliding. On the other hand, no Christian, no matter how spiritual, can claim perfection and sinlessness (1 John 1:8-10; 2:1). Therefore as Christians we must continually come to God sincerely asking His forgiveness for living below the potential He makes possible through the gift of His Holy Spirit.

The truth of God's marvelous and free grace has sadly led some to imagine and indulge in a cheap grace, a grace that covers all sins with no need to live a holy life. Such an attitude is an insult to the great price Christ paid to purchase our salvation. Though we may fail and fall, and sometimes sin, the heart of the true believer always regrets, repents, asks forgiveness, and seeks never to sin that way again. To carelessly participate in sin, expecting to gain forgiveness later, is itself an act of backsliding that will lead ultimately to losing one's salvation. We therefore reject any "once saved, always saved" doctrine that excuses sinful lifestyles.

Once saved can mean forever saved–if one continues in faith, growing in sanctification and holiness day by day. But God will not arbitrarily usurp mankind's free will. Our sovereign God does not overrule free will just to prove He is sovereign.

see link at: http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/topics/gendoct_09_security.cfm
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6/24/15 8:55 am


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Post Eddie Robbins
Quote:
We therefore reject any "once saved, always saved" doctrine that excuses sinful lifestyles.


This is so ignorant. They don't believe that, as been posted here numerous times. They believe that stereotype as much as you believe that one must speak in tongues to be saved, as is a false stereotype of us. If one claims to be saved and is involved in "sinful Lifestyles," they were never saved.
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6/24/15 9:01 am


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Post Quiet Wyatt
Da Sheik wrote:
The great "black hole" argument of the theological universe. Everybody line up in their corner with their favorite proof texts. I believe in eternal security for those who are really saved. God knew every rotten thing you would ever do in this life before He called you. That didn't deter Him then and doesn't deter Him now.

But for those who enjoy "trap door" theology I don't expect you to see it my way. You know the irony of it all? It seems that churches who believe in forfeiting salvation have a much higher rate of "backsliding" than those who don't teach it. Take that to the bank. OSAS churches tend to have saints that "hang in there" and non-OSAS have folks that quit going to church or get saved again in every revival.


Back in my backslidden days, I attended a Southern Baptist University. All my drinking buddies and frat brothers were absolutely sure they were saved no matter what they did. They were just as certain that they were definitely truly regenerate/born again. Telling them they weren't really saved due to the lack of fruit in their life would have elicited howls of 'legalism' and 'works' from every quarter. The reason I know this is because we all talked about the differences in our respective religious beliefs. The reason they didn't believe one could backslide was because they didn't believe you could ever be holy until you got to Heaven. Salvation by the blood of Christ essentially amounted to a get-out-of-Hell-free card.

So of course they didn't 'backslide'. They just kept right on sinning all they wanted, while claiming to be Christians. I witnessed this repeatedly in the four years I attended there. I am not exaggerating in the least. Every last one of my frat brothers whom I partied with every week was absolutely unconditionally eternally secure. They were also sure I had never really been saved, since I didn't believe in OSAS like they did.
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6/24/15 9:42 am


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Post Eddie Robbins
That's why there is some truth in stereotypes. You can always find some who think that way. I can find some who believe that if you don't speak with tongues, you're not saved.

But, for the most part, those churches that teach eternal security do not teach that you can be saved and keep right on sinning.
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6/24/15 9:50 am


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Post Darl Bundren
Well, Wyatt went to college with some 19-year-old boys who didn't understand doctrine. Therefore, all Southern Baptists believe you can get saved and then live in sin for the rest of your life and you'll go Heaven, anyway.

Glad we have that cleared up, now.
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6/24/15 10:20 am


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Post Quiet Wyatt
I should say that I have also known Southern Baptists and Independent Baptists who genuinely exhibited the fruit of the Spirit and who did not seem to use grace as a license to sin. So I definitely do not claim that everybody who believes in eternal security necessarily abuses the grace of God. Acts-perienced Poster
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6/24/15 11:37 am


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