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Loran Livingston: I believe in Eternal Security
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Post Cojak
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
What Loran is saying he doesn't believe is what I would call 'eternal INsecurity,' which may have been believed by some in the CoG, but which the CoG itself has never officially believed, the idea that you can accidentally lose your salvation, that a mistake is the same thing as willful sin, etc.



I like that term QW. Probably the way many folk in my life time have felt.
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6/20/15 12:45 pm


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Post Re: 4Golf...... Cojak
Purplebarney wrote:
Baptist preachers are not "God called" preachers?? REALLY????? This smells sooooo bad my friend. It smells of elitism and selfishness. If you seriously think that Billy Graham, Charles Stanley, Andy Stanley, and Dr. Jack Graham are not "God called" preachers then I want NOTHING to do with your religion or denomination. This simply goes back to something I've always had issues with.....pentecostals and charismatic preachers who think that they are the ONLY ones who preach the whole Bible and are better than non-pentecostal and charismatic preachers. I would actually laugh at that if it weren't so sad. I've said it before and I'll say it again......Heaven will be populated by pentecostals, charismatics, baptists, methodists, catholics, and every other denomination as long as they are believers and followers of Christ. "not God called preachers"????? WOW!

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Amazing how Humans jump and are quick to CONDEMN good, honest men without knowing them.

To be so 'self righteous' as to condemn men who are on the front lines and standing for our Lord, is unbelievable. Shocked Embarassed
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6/20/15 12:50 pm


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Post COG and this issue mytwocents
Is there any definition in the Declaration of Faith or minutes that defines the COG as non OSAS or Eternal Salvation, etc.
In other words, is this departure from tradition of the COG or a departure from the declared teaching of the COG?
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6/20/15 2:45 pm


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Post Question for 4golf Purplebarney
I would like to know "4golf's" opinion on non-pentecostal/charismatic pastors in regards to them as a shepherd leading their congregation/flock. Does your opinion on them being "not God called" mean that they are leading their congregations astray? Are we to assume for example that Dr. Jack Graham at Prestonwood Baptist Church in Plano, TX. is leading his congregation of 20,000+ to hell with his "not God called" sermons every Sunday? I know this may sound comical but I'm very serious. Are we to assume that all pastors who are non-pentecostal/charismatic are not Heaven bound? Are we to assume that Heaven will be so scarcely populated that it will seem that the enemy has won the battle for souls here on earth? I'm just wondering your thoughts on this. Acts-celerater
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6/20/15 4:51 pm


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Post Re: Loran Livingston: I believe in Eternal Security Darl Bundren
Quote:
Loran Livingston: I believe in Eternal Security


He's in GREAT company. I do, too.

He's right, of course.

Praise God that our salvation isn't a cr.apshoot like some would have us believe!
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6/20/15 5:24 pm


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Post bigchurchmouse
Back away slowly, purplebarney. You don't want to go any further. Golf Cart Mafia Capo
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6/20/15 7:10 pm


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Post Eddie Robbins
Purplebarney.....just to clarify...North Point is not Baptist. It is independent. Andy is not Baptist ans have NEVER heard him preach OSAS. Acts-pert Poster
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6/21/15 8:17 am


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Post Re: Is this spot sin? bradfreeman
Ernie Long wrote:
Ephesians 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

1 Timothy 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.


In understanding any passage you have to understand the new covenant. How do we become spotless? By faith. Faith doesn't hand us a bar of spiritual soap and say "clean yourself up". Faith in His word makes us clean. If we get clean by faith, we stay clean by faith. We get dirty by building again the old system of righteousness by works. That's what Peter did in Galatians 2. He rebuilt the Jewish law and "stood condemned" by it...he had been eating with Gentiles!

Gal. 2:17 “But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

Departing from faith in Christ back into legalism (me qualifying myself by rule-keeping) makes me a sinner! The very rules I build condemn me.
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6/21/15 9:05 am


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Post God called preachers! 4golf
I will make this "Crystal" clear! If a preacher, weather; Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostal you name all; If they say I don't preach a book or chapter of Gods Word, then yes they are not called by God! A God called preacher will preach what God and the Holy Spirit tells them to preach. If you can preach what you want to you are called by yourself! There has been "ALOT" sermons I did not want to preach, but that is not what God called me to do. I notice no argument about Scriptures Psalms 69:28, Revelation 3;5, Revelation 22:19 about having your name removes from the lambs Book of Life. I have "NEVER" had one of the great calvinest, once saved always saved boys say anything after asking them about those three scriptures, one Jesus Himself says he would remove there name! Like I say; This is the fact mam"! If you don't like it take it up with God!!!
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6/21/15 2:07 pm


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Post Re: God called preachers! bonnie knox
What if everybody starts out with their names in the book and only lose heaven when their name is blotted out? Is there a place in scripture that describes salvation as having one's name written in the Lamb's book of life? I know we sing (or used to sing) lots of songs about our name being written. But what if "written" is the default, and the only change is when it's blotted out?


4golf wrote:
I will make this "Crystal" clear! If a preacher, weather; Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostal you name all; If they say I don't preach a book or chapter of Gods Word, then yes they are not called by God! A God called preacher will preach what God and the Holy Spirit tells them to preach. If you can preach what you want to you are called by yourself! There has been "ALOT" sermons I did not want to preach, but that is not what God called me to do. I notice no argument about Scriptures Psalms 69:28, Revelation 3;5, Revelation 22:19 about having your name removes from the lambs Book of Life. I have "NEVER" had one of the great calvinest, once saved always saved boys say anything after asking them about those three scriptures, one Jesus Himself says he would remove there name! Like I say; This is the fact mam"! If you don't like it take it up with God!!!
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6/21/15 2:15 pm


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Post bigchurchmouse
Most of us remember the song "there's a new name written down in Glory, and it's mine, oh, yes, it's mine". I heard a preacher say that hymnology is not always good theology. I don't know if names are prewritten or not. Would that be predestination? Golf Cart Mafia Capo
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6/21/15 4:08 pm


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Post Re: Loran Livingston: I believe in Eternal Security Cojak
Darl Bundren wrote:
Quote:
Loran Livingston: I believe in Eternal Security


He's in GREAT company. I do, too.

He's right, of course.

Praise God that our salvation isn't a cr.apshoot like some would have us believe!


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6/21/15 8:37 pm


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Post Oh my BishopsWife
So you guys actually believe .. ie. that a COG pastor, saved and called of God, preached under the anointing, won many to the Lord & years later gets caught up in money, pride, lust, a gay lifestyle, kills his wife and is still going to heaven? and don't give me the "he wasn't saved in the first place" excuse .. Acts Enthusiast
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6/22/15 7:23 am


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Post eternal security probably not the best phrase wayne
Romans 8:38 And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,p neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love. 39No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I have heard Loran preach numerous times and I would have to say this isn't the first time he has said this. I'm not sure eternal security is the proper phrase for what he believes or Brad or even myself.

I was raised in the COG and was taught that there were many sins that would void your salvation. Going to the movies, mixed bathing, dancing, wearing jewelry, women wearing pants, women with short hair, missing church.............. the list goes on. Loran said it in the video because of this teaching he was saved about 70 times. For me, I always joke now that I was saved 3 times a week, at every youthcamp, campmeeting, revival, etc. I was told by these poor misinformed, non bible reading people that I was always full of sin and any of these things robbed me of what God "gave" me. As a result of this "teaching" or as I like to call it now, a lie - I hated the hypocritical church and did my best to stay away from it.
My father-in-law helped me out with this once and I'm not sure he realized what he did. As a young minister in the church, I remember I messed up(can't remember what I did) but feeling guilty I went to him and confessed my "major" sin. He simply said to me, "lets move on and try not to do it again." I was stunned by his response. I thought he was going to stop my licensing process, take away my ministry and possibly shame me publicly. I knew better but my upbringing made me believe this.
From that day forward, I have looked at my salvation differently. I look at it through the verse I posted above. Nothing! will separate me. Not anyone, Not anything and not my few mistakes. Why? Because my God loves me more than my father in law did.
I think we automatically equate eternal security with eternal salvation. I think this is incorrect. We stay eternally secure as long as we stay eternally committed to our relationship with God. Like my marriage - I choose to stay married, I choose to stay committed, I choose not to stray and yes at times I choose to love my wife and trust me Our God is no different.
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6/22/15 8:40 am


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Post Re: Oh my Brandon Bohannon
BishopsWife wrote:
So you guys actually believe .. ie. that a COG pastor, saved and called of God, preached under the anointing, won many to the Lord & years later gets caught up in money, pride, lust, a gay lifestyle, kills his wife and is still going to heaven? and don't give me the "he wasn't saved in the first place" excuse ..


BishopsWife,

I can only answer for myself since I am one who said that I agree with the two-minute video clip that we watched. I am neither a true Arminian nor am I Calvinist. I believe Jesus. I believe the balance of Scripture.

For those of our tradition, yours, the one that I was "taught" too, we always get hung up on hypotheticals. As if we are righteous. As if we sit in the judgment throne of God.

To answer your hypothetical: your hypothetical person is certainly a public sinner. I'm not God. As your hypothetical person slipped down this spiral of sin, did this person repent? Did this person struggle and agonize with God or was the person turned over to a reprobate mind?

The reason that I agree with the clip but not with Calvinism is that I believe we get to choose too, He chose me and I choose Him, and I reject, as does Scripture, Eternal Insecurity.

I "got saved" every summer at church camp from the time I was seven until fifteen. I "got saved" on countless Sunday nights. I was water baptized multiple times as well. It has been reinforced in our tradition that Salvation is weak and flimsy. Bologna! Very Happy

When I sin, and all of us do(all have sinned, if you are guilty in one, to him who knows to do good), I have been given the Holy Spirit to convict me, the Scripture to teach me, the Father to chasten me, and an Advocate with the Father to make intercession for me. Praise God! I have been made the righteousness of God in Jesus. My secure place is in Jesus! He will keep and guide me.
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6/22/15 8:43 am


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Post bonnie knox
bigchurchmouse wrote:
Most of us remember the song "there's a new name written down in Glory, and it's mine, oh, yes, it's mine". I heard a preacher say that hymnology is not always good theology. I don't know if names are prewritten or not. Would that be predestination?


No, it would only be predestination if it is predetermined which ones to "blot out."
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6/22/15 8:47 am


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Post This is not a hypothethical Brandon Bohannon
I know of a man who by every account was a good, family man. He pastored the 2nd largest church of a sister organization in his state. The only church larger was a mega church pastored by a well-known, celebrity preacher.

One day, for reasons still unknown, he came home from a church event, left his son playing in the living room and while his wife was cleaning the kitchen, he went into his bedroom and shot himself. He had shown no visible signs of depression. Successful as a husband, father and pastor. His only visible sin was fatal to his body. Thou shall not kill. Was it fatal to his soul? Was it fatal to his relationship with God?

I do not know. Neither do you. We are not God. I will not be angry that there are known sinners in heaven (thief on the cross); after all, you and I hope to be there one day too. We do know not to fear the one who can kill the body but to fear the one who can destroy both the body and soul in hell fire.

I believe God and I believe the balance of Scripture.
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6/22/15 9:01 am


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Post Da Sheik
The great "black hole" argument of the theological universe. Everybody line up in their corner with their favorite proof texts. I believe in eternal security for those who are really saved. God knew every rotten thing you would ever do in this life before He called you. That didn't deter Him then and doesn't deter Him now.

But for those who enjoy "trap door" theology I don't expect you to see it my way. You know the irony of it all? It seems that churches who believe in forfeiting salvation have a much higher rate of "backsliding" than those who don't teach it. Take that to the bank. OSAS churches tend to have saints that "hang in there" and non-OSAS have folks that quit going to church or get saved again in every revival.
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6/22/15 10:05 am


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Post Old Time Country Preacher
Da Sheik wrote:
It seems that churches who believe in forfeiting salvation have a much higher rate of "backsliding" than those who don't teach it.


Ats cause the folk in the OSAS churches don't know its possible to backslide. Once ya know its possible to backslide, hey, folk just automatically do it periodically. Ats why we got revivals, to git folk back right with the good Lord.
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6/22/15 11:23 am


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Post OTCP JimmieDavis
That is the dumbest thing you've ever posted. And that's saying something.

Ps Doyle I really thought hard about what word I should use to describe his post. Dumbest was fitting. If that is calling names please allow my pardon.
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6/22/15 12:05 pm


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