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So, the blessings from tithing have been cancelled?
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Post Re: lol Resident Skeptic
Nick Park wrote:
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
Tithing is NOT law. Not sure how this keeps getting mentioned.


It's an age-old tactic. If you repeat a lie often enough then you will eventually find that a sufficiently large group of people believe it to suit your purposes.

The word 'tithe' is simply an old English word for 'tenth'. You can voluntarily choose to tithe and receive blessings irrespective of the law. It is a very useful and fair system for members of a congregation to choose to adopt to ensure that ministry activities are adequately funded.

Of course if you start preaching that those who don't do it are thieves or cursed then it becomes law.


I agree on all points.
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5/29/14 7:45 am


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Post Resident Skeptic
philunderwood wrote:
It's not that tithing is wrong, it just allows people to settle and feel they've done their part and that they are in control of the other 90%. It is an anti-discipleship activity as it is taught.


Great insight!!
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Post bradfreeman
Fear and control are at the heart of the concept of "tithing" in most churches that impose it on their members. You can spray a little whipped cream on the fear and control by paying lip service to "blessing", but the truth is: fear that churches can't pay the bills and the fear that people won't give out of love are at the heart of holding onto this control tactic.

We cannot buy blessings with cash.
Jesus paid for all blessings we have.
We access those blessings by faith.

Give by faith, give by love, not fear, not greed, not shame, not obligation, not habit.

1 Cor. 13:3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
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5/29/14 7:49 am


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Post Tracy S Hamilton
bradfreeman wrote:
Fear and control are at the heart of the concept of "tithing" in most churches that impose it on their members. You can spray a little whipped cream on the fear and control by paying lip service to "blessing", but the truth is: fear that churches can't pay the bills and the fear that people won't give out of love are at the heart of holding onto this control tactic.

We cannot buy blessings with cash.
Jesus paid for all blessings we have.
We access those blessings by faith.

Give by faith, give by love, not fear, not greed, not shame, not obligation, not habit.

1 Cor. 13:3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.



I don't believe that "most" churches impose tithing on their members. "Most" that I know teach the principle of tithing as a way to lead people to trust God with their resources.
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5/29/14 1:14 pm


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Post Resident Skeptic
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Fear and control are at the heart of the concept of "tithing" in most churches that impose it on their members. You can spray a little whipped cream on the fear and control by paying lip service to "blessing", but the truth is: fear that churches can't pay the bills and the fear that people won't give out of love are at the heart of holding onto this control tactic.

We cannot buy blessings with cash.
Jesus paid for all blessings we have.
We access those blessings by faith.

Give by faith, give by love, not fear, not greed, not shame, not obligation, not habit.

1 Cor. 13:3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.



I don't believe that "most" churches impose tithing on their members. "Most" that I know teach the principle of tithing as a way to lead people to trust God with their resources.


Where did the apostles ever teach people to tithe monetary income as a way to lead them to trust God with their resources?
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Post Nature Boy Florida
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Fear and control are at the heart of the concept of "tithing" in most churches that impose it on their members. You can spray a little whipped cream on the fear and control by paying lip service to "blessing", but the truth is: fear that churches can't pay the bills and the fear that people won't give out of love are at the heart of holding onto this control tactic.

We cannot buy blessings with cash.
Jesus paid for all blessings we have.
We access those blessings by faith.

Give by faith, give by love, not fear, not greed, not shame, not obligation, not habit.

1 Cor. 13:3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.



I don't believe that "most" churches impose tithing on their members. "Most" that I know teach the principle of tithing as a way to lead people to trust God with their resources.


Tracy,
I wish that were true.

Dudes that are naturally scared - teach others to be scared - that God is going to get you the moment you let him down in any way.

I truly believe God blesses giving - that seems to be a lesson taught (with tithing and with other giving - pressed down shaken together running over) and if I could get up to giving 90% of my income - I would be extremely blessed.

However, I can't God curses a Christian for not giving ten % - and it is offensive to hear a man teach that.

Teach the blessings that come from giving - but leave all the cursing to the Old Testament (I'm scared that I sound like Brad here)
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5/29/14 5:22 pm


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Post JLarry
In a word, nope.
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5/29/14 5:26 pm


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Post Tracy S Hamilton
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Fear and control are at the heart of the concept of "tithing" in most churches that impose it on their members. You can spray a little whipped cream on the fear and control by paying lip service to "blessing", but the truth is: fear that churches can't pay the bills and the fear that people won't give out of love are at the heart of holding onto this control tactic.

We cannot buy blessings with cash.
Jesus paid for all blessings we have.
We access those blessings by faith.

Give by faith, give by love, not fear, not greed, not shame, not obligation, not habit.

1 Cor. 13:3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.



I don't believe that "most" churches impose tithing on their members. "Most" that I know teach the principle of tithing as a way to lead people to trust God with their resources.


Tracy,
I wish that were true.

Dudes that are naturally scared - teach others to be scared - that God is going to get you the moment you let him down in any way.

I truly believe God blesses giving - that seems to be a lesson taught (with tithing and with other giving - pressed down shaken together running over) and if I could get up to giving 90% of my income - I would be extremely blessed.

However, I can't God curses a Christian for not giving ten % - and it is offensive to hear a man teach that.

Teach the blessings that come from giving - but leave all the cursing to the Old Testament (I'm scared that I sound like Brad here)


That's funny.... lol...

I agree. I guess it just depends on those you are associated with. Again, the guys that I know, teach the principle of tithing, but not as a "requirement"

The only thing as it relates to the "curse" of Malachi is simply that when we aren't trusting God with our resources, we are trusting a world's system that is cursed...... that is what I don't hear being taught.
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5/29/14 9:30 pm


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Post bradfreeman
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
The only thing as it relates to the "curse" of Malachi is simply that when we aren't trusting God with our resources, we are trusting a world's system that is cursed...... that is what I don't hear being taught.


So if we don't tithe we aren't trusting God, but trusting the world system?

Malachi doesn't say that failing to tithe is not trusting God. It says not tithing is robbing God. Why? Because the Law states that the first 10% is the Lord's. The curse is not some indirect effect of relying on a broken system. It is the Deut. 28 curse on disobedience to the Law.

You can try to massage that passage into some hybrid Law that passes into the new covenant and some indirect curse that Christ didn't redeem us from if you want. But that is NOT what Malachi is saying.

We are blessed, not cursed...all by faith.
We do not buy God's blessing or buy our redemption out of a "cursed system".

Acts 7:20 But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!
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My blog: http://bradcfreeman.tumblr.com/


Last edited by bradfreeman on 5/31/14 7:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post Resident Skeptic
bradfreeman wrote:
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
The only thing as it relates to the "curse" of Malachi is simply that when we aren't trusting God with our resources, we are trusting a world's system that is cursed...... that is what I don't hear being taught.


So if we don't tithe we aren't trusting God, but trusting the world system?

Malachi doesn't say that failing to tithe is not trusting God. It says not tithing is robbing God. Why? Because the Law states that the first 10% is the Lord's. The curse is some indirect effect of relying on a broken system. It is the Deut. 28 curse on disobedience to the Law.

You can try to massage that passage into some hybrid Law that passes into the new covenant and some indirect curse that Christ didn't redeem us from if you want. But that is NOT what Malachi is saying.

We are blessed, not cursed...all by faith.
We do not buy God's blessing or buy our redemption out of a "cursed system".

Acts 7:20 But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!


We agree.
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5/30/14 9:05 pm


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Post JLarry
As for me I do not preach curse nor do I preach fear. I preach blessings.

I still believe whatever one sows is what they reap.
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Post Tracy S Hamilton
bradfreeman wrote:
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
The only thing as it relates to the "curse" of Malachi is simply that when we aren't trusting God with our resources, we are trusting a world's system that is cursed...... that is what I don't hear being taught.


So if we don't tithe we aren't trusting God, but trusting the world system?

Malachi doesn't say that failing to tithe is not trusting God. It says not tithing is robbing God. Why? Because the Law states that the first 10% is the Lord's. The curse is not some indirect effect of relying on a broken system. It is the Deut. 28 curse on disobedience to the Law.

You can try to massage that passage into some hybrid Law that passes into the new covenant and some indirect curse that Christ didn't redeem us from if you want. But that is NOT what Malachi is saying.

We are blessed, not cursed...all by faith.
We do not buy God's blessing or buy our redemption out of a "cursed system".

Acts 7:20 But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!



Again, tithing came along BEFORE the law! Just because some of you guys keep referring to it as being part of the law will never make it so.

If you follow your reasoning, then I guess we need to remove all instruments from our churches since we there is no example of instruments in worship being taught in the NT.... the reason it wasn't taught or talked about is because it was a given. The example was given to us in the OT. Same with tithing, the example was given to us. If you can't see that tithing is simply a trust issue, then there is not much more to say.

Tithing or giving a tenth is just a matter of trust. It is not a heaven or hell issue, but it is a trust issue.
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Post Resident Skeptic
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
The only thing as it relates to the "curse" of Malachi is simply that when we aren't trusting God with our resources, we are trusting a world's system that is cursed...... that is what I don't hear being taught.


So if we don't tithe we aren't trusting God, but trusting the world system?

Malachi doesn't say that failing to tithe is not trusting God. It says not tithing is robbing God. Why? Because the Law states that the first 10% is the Lord's. The curse is not some indirect effect of relying on a broken system. It is the Deut. 28 curse on disobedience to the Law.

You can try to massage that passage into some hybrid Law that passes into the new covenant and some indirect curse that Christ didn't redeem us from if you want. But that is NOT what Malachi is saying.

We are blessed, not cursed...all by faith.
We do not buy God's blessing or buy our redemption out of a "cursed system".

Acts 7:20 But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!



Again, tithing came along BEFORE the law! Just because some of you guys keep referring to it as being part of the law will never make it so.

If you follow your reasoning, then I guess we need to remove all instruments from our churches since we there is no example of instruments in worship being taught in the NT.... the reason it wasn't taught or talked about is because it was a given. The example was given to us in the OT. Same with tithing, the example was given to us. If you can't see that tithing is simply a trust issue, then there is not much more to say.

Tithing or giving a tenth is just a matter of trust. It is not a heaven or hell issue, but it is a trust issue.


Things that were a "given" were indeed discussed by the apostles. Furthermore, please cite where tithing was instituted by God before the Law,

Let's see, you have Abraham ONE TIME giving a tenth of spoils of war to Melchizedek. He was never commanded by God to do so and there is no record he ever did it again.

Abraham gave to King Melchizedek ten percent of the war spoils. Note that he gave the rest to the King of Sodom. Abraham kept nothing for himself.

Abraham did NOT give ten percent of his income, or ten percent of all he owned. He gave ten percent of the war spoils that he, himself, said didn't belong to him. He gave nothing of his own.

The scripture does not tell us that Abraham was required to tithe, or give a tenth, of the war spoils. Whether a gift or not, Abraham said the goods didn't belong to him, and he kept nothing for himself.

There is nothing in the scripture to indicate this event has anything to do with the New Testament Church. It was a one-time event. There is no evidence in the scriptures to show that Abraham ever tithed before or after this event. Therefore, we believe it is wrong to use this example to show that tithing had been established before the law and therefore, was brought into the New Testament. Since Abraham gave nothing of his own, it is wrong to pull the concept of the tithe out of context and now apply it to one's own income or property.

Please make the hermeneutical fit for with that example.

Then you have a supplanter who had stolen a birth right trying to make a deal with God stating he's give a tenth of his wealth (not income) to God, as if God needed anything. How was he going to deliver it to God?

And from those two examples you want to create some "eternal principle"?
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5/31/14 1:18 pm


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Post Tracy S Hamilton
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
The only thing as it relates to the "curse" of Malachi is simply that when we aren't trusting God with our resources, we are trusting a world's system that is cursed...... that is what I don't hear being taught.


So if we don't tithe we aren't trusting God, but trusting the world system?

Malachi doesn't say that failing to tithe is not trusting God. It says not tithing is robbing God. Why? Because the Law states that the first 10% is the Lord's. The curse is not some indirect effect of relying on a broken system. It is the Deut. 28 curse on disobedience to the Law.

You can try to massage that passage into some hybrid Law that passes into the new covenant and some indirect curse that Christ didn't redeem us from if you want. But that is NOT what Malachi is saying.

We are blessed, not cursed...all by faith.
We do not buy God's blessing or buy our redemption out of a "cursed system".

Acts 7:20 But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!



Again, tithing came along BEFORE the law! Just because some of you guys keep referring to it as being part of the law will never make it so.

If you follow your reasoning, then I guess we need to remove all instruments from our churches since we there is no example of instruments in worship being taught in the NT.... the reason it wasn't taught or talked about is because it was a given. The example was given to us in the OT. Same with tithing, the example was given to us. If you can't see that tithing is simply a trust issue, then there is not much more to say.

Tithing or giving a tenth is just a matter of trust. It is not a heaven or hell issue, but it is a trust issue.


Things that were a "given" were indeed discussed by the apostles. Furthermore, please cite where tithing was instituted by God before the Law,

Let's see, you have Abraham ONE TIME giving a tenth of spoils of war to Melchizedek. He was never commanded by God to do so and there is no record he ever did it again.

Abraham gave to King Melchizedek ten percent of the war spoils. Note that he gave the rest to the King of Sodom. Abraham kept nothing for himself.

Abraham did NOT give ten percent of his income, or ten percent of all he owned. He gave ten percent of the war spoils that he, himself, said didn't belong to him. He gave nothing of his own.

The scripture does not tell us that Abraham was required to tithe, or give a tenth, of the war spoils. Whether a gift or not, Abraham said the goods didn't belong to him, and he kept nothing for himself.

There is nothing in the scripture to indicate this event has anything to do with the New Testament Church. It was a one-time event. There is no evidence in the scriptures to show that Abraham ever tithed before or after this event. Therefore, we believe it is wrong to use this example to show that tithing had been established before the law and therefore, was brought into the New Testament. Since Abraham gave nothing of his own, it is wrong to pull the concept of the tithe out of context and now apply it to one's own income or property.

Please make the hermeneutical fit for with that example.

Then you have a supplanter who had stolen a birth right trying to make a deal with God stating he's give a tenth of his wealth (not income) to God, as if God needed anything. How was he going to deliver it to God?

And from those two examples you want to create some "eternal principle"?


Apparently what Abraham did had such an impact that it carried over. Funny that Jesus is talked about being a high priest after the "order" of Melchizedek.

What did Melchizedek do? He received the tithe or the tenth from Abraham and he blessed him. Why not Jesus being the high priest after another order?

There is a principle of tithing. Plenty of other people and ministers see it as well. Not to abuse people but because of a principle of being blessed.

Tithing or a tenth shouldn't be the only thing we give, but it is a pretty good starting point. It all belongs to God.
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Post Nature Boy Florida
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:


What did Melchizedek do? He received the tithe or the tenth from Abraham and he blessed him. Why not Jesus being the high priest after another order?

There is a principle of tithing. Plenty of other people and ministers see it as well. Not to abuse people but because of a principle of being blessed.

Tithing or a tenth shouldn't be the only thing we give, but it is a pretty good starting point. It all belongs to God.


Tracy,

There is a problem with your story about tithing bringing blessing.

The one time that tithing is shown BEFORE the law is the example you gave.

Except you have the order wrong.

Malachi shows that under the law - if one tithed, they could expect the blessings from God.

But go back and read the tithe from Abraham to Melchizidek.

What came first?

The blessing.

And a response to that blessing was a tithe.

The law had it backwards.

Melchizedek gave the blessing first - a type of NT gift from God - no strings attached. Abraham's response (a natural one) was the tithe.

Blessing was/is not contingent on tithing. (It was for those under the law - as Malachi points out).

The natural response to God's gift and blessings is a tithe (plus offerings and alms for the poor) to further God's will on earth - but it was not required. The early COG leaders had it right - tithing was/is not required to be saved or a member of the COG. But it will flow naturally from a true believer.
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Post Resident Skeptic
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
bradfreeman wrote:
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
The only thing as it relates to the "curse" of Malachi is simply that when we aren't trusting God with our resources, we are trusting a world's system that is cursed...... that is what I don't hear being taught.


So if we don't tithe we aren't trusting God, but trusting the world system?

Malachi doesn't say that failing to tithe is not trusting God. It says not tithing is robbing God. Why? Because the Law states that the first 10% is the Lord's. The curse is not some indirect effect of relying on a broken system. It is the Deut. 28 curse on disobedience to the Law.

You can try to massage that passage into some hybrid Law that passes into the new covenant and some indirect curse that Christ didn't redeem us from if you want. But that is NOT what Malachi is saying.

We are blessed, not cursed...all by faith.
We do not buy God's blessing or buy our redemption out of a "cursed system".

Acts 7:20 But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!



Again, tithing came along BEFORE the law! Just because some of you guys keep referring to it as being part of the law will never make it so.

If you follow your reasoning, then I guess we need to remove all instruments from our churches since we there is no example of instruments in worship being taught in the NT.... the reason it wasn't taught or talked about is because it was a given. The example was given to us in the OT. Same with tithing, the example was given to us. If you can't see that tithing is simply a trust issue, then there is not much more to say.

Tithing or giving a tenth is just a matter of trust. It is not a heaven or hell issue, but it is a trust issue.


Things that were a "given" were indeed discussed by the apostles. Furthermore, please cite where tithing was instituted by God before the Law,

Let's see, you have Abraham ONE TIME giving a tenth of spoils of war to Melchizedek. He was never commanded by God to do so and there is no record he ever did it again.

Abraham gave to King Melchizedek ten percent of the war spoils. Note that he gave the rest to the King of Sodom. Abraham kept nothing for himself.

Abraham did NOT give ten percent of his income, or ten percent of all he owned. He gave ten percent of the war spoils that he, himself, said didn't belong to him. He gave nothing of his own.

The scripture does not tell us that Abraham was required to tithe, or give a tenth, of the war spoils. Whether a gift or not, Abraham said the goods didn't belong to him, and he kept nothing for himself.

There is nothing in the scripture to indicate this event has anything to do with the New Testament Church. It was a one-time event. There is no evidence in the scriptures to show that Abraham ever tithed before or after this event. Therefore, we believe it is wrong to use this example to show that tithing had been established before the law and therefore, was brought into the New Testament. Since Abraham gave nothing of his own, it is wrong to pull the concept of the tithe out of context and now apply it to one's own income or property.

Please make the hermeneutical fit for with that example.

Then you have a supplanter who had stolen a birth right trying to make a deal with God stating he's give a tenth of his wealth (not income) to God, as if God needed anything. How was he going to deliver it to God?

And from those two examples you want to create some "eternal principle"?


Apparently what Abraham did had such an impact that it carried over. Funny that Jesus is talked about being a high priest after the "order" of Melchizedek.

What did Melchizedek do? He received the tithe or the tenth from Abraham and he blessed him. Why not Jesus being the high priest after another order?

There is a principle of tithing. Plenty of other people and ministers see it as well. Not to abuse people but because of a principle of being blessed.

Tithing or a tenth shouldn't be the only thing we give, but it is a pretty good starting point. It all belongs to God.


Who "carried it over"? The apostles? There's no record that they did. And again, if we are to use this as some example for our giving, we'd only pay tithes once like Abraham did and not on things that belong to us.
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5/31/14 6:10 pm


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Before Tetzel, the Roman Catholics had indulgences. He just took their teaching on indulgences to an extreme.

I'm just imagining what if a RCC priest read or heard Luther oppose indulgences and wrote a message similar to yours talking about all the faithful church people who had given indulgences, arguing as if all the preachers and people who'd taught and believed it in the past made it right.

I'm not against tithing 10% of cash income, and I think it's a good discipline. Abraham chose to tithe the spoils of war. If someone wants to tithe or even give more, that's great.

I've also heard preachers teach that God only wants 10% and lets you keep the rest. That's not Biblical either. If you give 10%, and then see a brother or sister hungry and destitute of daily clothes, and have to give, does God's love dwell in you?

We shouldn't put a 10% cap on giving. The Old Testament certainly didn't. It required more for a lot of people. But we shouldn't demand 10% either, especially of those the Old Testament wouldn't have demanded 10%.

The widow who did not own land would not have any land to tithe off of. And I can't see where if someone gave her a little money, she was required to give 10%. But I can see where very three years she might get part of a tithe if she were in Israel.

And I'm not saying tithing is not for today. For those Messianic believers who live in Israel and eat kosher food, I don't see why they wouldn't collect 10% every three years for the disadvantaged among them that the Torah names. If they are farmers, and they want to be 'Torah true' Jews, they could still eat 10% of their crops in Jerusalem, or spend it for some really good food and strong drink like the Bible commands.

There is no active temple priesthood to tithe into in Jerusalem. Maybe this tithe will be restored during the time of the beast or the millennium. The time of the beast might present some ethical dilemmas for Messianics in Israel.

Doyle, when you read Malachi, do you really think he was talking about giving 10% of cash income to the local church and not 10% of the produce of the land of Israel to the Aaronic priests? Don't you believe they had literal storehouses near or in the temple, as opposed to bank accounts with church names on them back then?

And that passage about opening the windows of heaven was addressed to a particular audience at a particular time. The Israelites were not paying a real, biblical tithe. The audience was not Gentiles who were not commanded to tithe. The tithe went into the temple, not churches spread throughout Gentile lands. The tithes was of crops and things like that, not cash income-- as best I can tell. I don't see anything clearly about tithing cash being required, unless you interpret 'increase' loosely. That seems like a stretch.

We can apply passages like this, but we have to understand the context to interpret them properly first. And we shouldn't be prejudiced by tradition when we interpret them. If ol' brother so and so used this passage to hammer the church to give him 10% of their income, then that doesn't mean that's what the text really means.

And God can open the windows of heaven. He doesn't have to leave them shut.

What does the Bible command Christians about giving? There is an awful lot commanded regarding giving to the poor and loving our neighbor. We also see that God commands Christians to give cheerfully.

If tithing is required of Gentile churches, why didn't Paul, apostle to the Gentiles, explain it? Why are 'giving passages' like those in II Corinthians noticeably lacking any references to tithing? Why does Paul quote from Psalm 112 instead of tithing passages?
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5/31/14 6:47 pm


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Post Tracy S Hamilton
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:


What did Melchizedek do? He received the tithe or the tenth from Abraham and he blessed him. Why not Jesus being the high priest after another order?

There is a principle of tithing. Plenty of other people and ministers see it as well. Not to abuse people but because of a principle of being blessed.

Tithing or a tenth shouldn't be the only thing we give, but it is a pretty good starting point. It all belongs to God.


Tracy,

There is a problem with your story about tithing bringing blessing.

The one time that tithing is shown BEFORE the law is the example you gave.

Except you have the order wrong.

Malachi shows that under the law - if one tithed, they could expect the blessings from God.

But go back and read the tithe from Abraham to Melchizidek.

What came first?

The blessing.

And a response to that blessing was a tithe.

The law had it backwards.

Melchizedek gave the blessing first - a type of NT gift from God - no strings attached. Abraham's response (a natural one) was the tithe.

Blessing was/is not contingent on tithing. (It was for those under the law - as Malachi points out).

The natural response to God's gift and blessings is a tithe (plus offerings and alms for the poor) to further God's will on earth - but it was not required. The early COG leaders had it right - tithing was/is not required to be saved or a member of the COG. But it will flow naturally from a true believer.


Agree. It all belongs to God. Tithing should not be taught and is not a requirement for salvation. It should not be required to be a member. I do think when it comes to leadership, you need to know who is supporting the church.
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5/31/14 8:46 pm


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Post Resident Skeptic
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:


What did Melchizedek do? He received the tithe or the tenth from Abraham and he blessed him. Why not Jesus being the high priest after another order?

There is a principle of tithing. Plenty of other people and ministers see it as well. Not to abuse people but because of a principle of being blessed.

Tithing or a tenth shouldn't be the only thing we give, but it is a pretty good starting point. It all belongs to God.


Tracy,

There is a problem with your story about tithing bringing blessing.

The one time that tithing is shown BEFORE the law is the example you gave.

Except you have the order wrong.

Malachi shows that under the law - if one tithed, they could expect the blessings from God.

But go back and read the tithe from Abraham to Melchizidek.

What came first?

The blessing.

And a response to that blessing was a tithe.

The law had it backwards.

Melchizedek gave the blessing first - a type of NT gift from God - no strings attached. Abraham's response (a natural one) was the tithe.

Blessing was/is not contingent on tithing. (It was for those under the law - as Malachi points out).

The natural response to God's gift and blessings is a tithe (plus offerings and alms for the poor) to further God's will on earth - but it was not required. The early COG leaders had it right - tithing was/is not required to be saved or a member of the COG. But it will flow naturally from a true believer.


Agree. It all belongs to God. Tithing should not be taught and is not a requirement for salvation. It should not be required to be a member. I do think when it comes to leadership, you need to know who is supporting the church.


Agreed, at least within the church model we currently operate in.
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5/31/14 8:54 pm


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Post Re: Before the Law ... theedmister
Resident Skeptic wrote:
Mat wrote:
Before the Law, long before the Law, Abraham (Father of the Faithful) gave a tenth of increase to Melchizekek, who then blessed Abraham. The greater blesses the lesser and the lesser, by faith, pays tithes to the greater (Hebrews 7). This principle is embedded in faith, not the Law of Moses, as it both predates and postdates the Law. Even Jesus said don't stop tithing (Luke 11:42), but realize it is not all there is to living by faith.

Mat


He did it once.God never told him to. No record he did it again.


It would be easier to believe Abraham did it regular than to believe he did it once. Especially by the fact that he did it and gave a percentage. I don't think this just came out of the blue. Something he made up. It was part of his life style and recorded here as a practice.

If a person chooses not to tithe that is their choice. I wouldn't miss the opportunity. I have been tithing (and more) for over 24 years now. The Lord has been so good to me and money is not an issue.

Money is not an issue because I have so much but because He has so much. I give it to Him and He always takes care of my needs. The Lord is so great.

Hebrews 7 answers the question of tithing. I also recommend the book "The Blessed Life" by Robert Morris. He covering tithing and giving well.

I love the way he deals with the spirit of mammon.

No way would I ever quit talking and preaching about tithing. I love my people too much. I see it in scripture and in my personal life.
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