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Are the 10 Commandments for NT Believers?
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Post Are the 10 Commandments for NT Believers? Aaron Scott
ABSOLUTELY.

Jesus Himself, when a young man asked Him how to have eternal life, did not say, "Well, just believe on Me, etc." He pointed to the commandments.

Further, the 10 Commandments are NOT the Law. They are mentioned BY the Law, but all of these commandments were standards held by those who came long before the Law.

The Sabbath? That started on Day Seven.

Thou shalt not kill? It hadn't been written down, but God still punished Cain.

On and on, these MORAL commandments are seen in action--hundreds of years before the Law.

Yes, circumcision was also prior to the law, but we have express scriptures that tell us that Gentiles are not held to physical circumcision. The new covenant spiritualized the matter--circumcision still mattered, but not fleshly circumcision, but circumcision of the heart.

The Sabbath? Some here argue that it too is not expected. I am not sure, but I do not practice it specifically, nor tell others to.

But if all liars (Rev. 21:Cool will have their part in the Lake of Fire, then God still holds people to some sort of standard. (If I understand Brad, he believes that only the unsaved must live up to the law; the rest of us live by grace, etc.).

But over and over we see Jesus letting us know that the TRUE standard (of which the commandments are but shadows) is even HIGHER than the commandments. So if murder is wrong for the non-believers, then hating one's brother is wrong for the Christian.

If adultery is wrong for the non-believer, then surely the believer is held to the standard of "he that looks on a woman to lust after her."

YES, the 10 commandments are FOR EVERYONE.

If you break them, you have disobeyed God. And if you are saved and claiming grace, you have went contrary to grace by breaking them.
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Post Aaron...yes and no.... caseyleejones
Matthew 22:34-40 (NIV)
34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together.
35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
37 Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
38 This is the first and greatest commandment.
39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

The law of love trumps all. The 10 commandments were covered in what Jesus stated. If you walk in love, you won't be lying, killing adulterating,....etc.....

Are we under the 10 commandments per se.....no..... But the law of love covers it and everything else.

This is simple for me to understand because I need simplicity.
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4/24/14 6:41 pm


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Post Casey...you are correct, my brother Aaron Scott
You are correct, my friend.

Any law the encompasses the 10 commandments ensures that they are obeyed. For instance, if we love God, we're going to seek to live a life pleasing to Him.
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Post Re: Are the 10 Commandments for NT Believers? bradfreeman
Aaron Scott wrote:
But over and over we see Jesus letting us know that the TRUE standard (of which the commandments are but shadows) is even HIGHER than the commandments. So if murder is wrong for the non-believers, then hating one's brother is wrong for the Christian.


Thanks Aaron,

Jesus revealed the fundamental weakness and uselessness of the 10 commandments:
They could keep you from stabbing your brother, but they couldn't take the hatred out of your heart. Mat. 5:21-22
They could keep you from sleeping with your neighbor's wife, but they couldn't cleanse the lust from your heart. Mat. 5:27-28
They couldn't make you as perfect as God! Mat. 5:48

Mat. 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Heb. 7:18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, 19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

My hope is not that I will finally get it right, keep all the rules and God will accept me.
My hope is a better hope. My hope is in Jesus! Jesus fulfilled the Law for me, became my sin and gave me His perfect righteousness! 2 Cor. 5:21

Heb. 10:10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all...14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

We are sanctified by the One who became for us sanctification!
We are perfected by the One who became for us righteousness!

How did we get into Christ?

Rom. 7:1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another--to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet."

It is only our death to the Law the enables us to be married to Christ!

What Law is Paul talking about?
The law against adultery.
The law against coveting.
The 10 commandments and every other requirement of the Law.

We have been perfected in our inner man and do not serve Christ in the old way of the letter, but we follow the internal leadership of the Spirit of God!

The inside of the cup has been cleansed!
The Jews couldn't get at the inside of the cup with all their washings and rituals. They could clean the outside and make it look good and cut skin off their bodies, but their hearts were uncircumcised.

Our sin is disobeying the Law of Christ - faith and love. 1 John 3:23
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Post But Brad... Aaron Scott
You'd agree that the grace we are given, calling us to an even higher elevation, would mean that we would MORE THAN MEET the standards of the Ten Commandments?

That is, if you are NOT keeping the 10 commandments (let's say you're committing adultery), then you would ALSO not be right before God, since we are called even higher, right?
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Post Quiet Wyatt
The Ten Commandments were specifically given to the Hebrews, under the terms of the law of Moses. They absolutely were not given to Gentiles, nor are they binding moral law for the New Covenant believer. The law of Christ is the sole and sufficient New Covenant standard for the believer. Acts-perienced Poster
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Post Re: But Brad... bradfreeman
Aaron Scott wrote:
You'd agree that the grace we are given, calling us to an even higher elevation, would mean that we would MORE THAN MEET the standards of the Ten Commandments?

That is, if you are NOT keeping the 10 commandments (let's say you're committing adultery), then you would ALSO not be right before God, since we are called even higher, right?


You do mean the 9 commandments don't you, because no one keeps the Sabbath.

I'm saying that the life we live is a new way.
The 10 commandments are not our schoolmaster. The Spirit teaches us.
The 10 commandments are not our guide. The Spirit is.
I'm saying I DO NOT look to the 10 commandments to tell me whether I'm right before God or not...period. I examine myself to see if I am in the faith! 2 Cor. 13:5

I don't need to find some value for the 10 commandments under this new covenant. Like Hagar, my command from God is to "cast them out". We don't need a young, attractive, strong and healthy Hagar in the house to raise the kids. Sarah (grace) can handle it even if folks think she is too old and weak to get the job done!
I don't need to use them to measure how much higher our new standard is.

The 10 commandments were a shadowy picture of the reality we find in Christ. The old covenant law said to "love your neighbor as you love yourself". That's good, but what if I hate myself?
Here's perfect:
Jesus said to "love one another as I have loved you". Jn. 13:34
This fruit only happens when we are joined to the Lord. 1 Cor. 6:17
This fruit only happens when we are "in the Vine". Jn. 15
This only happens when He is the head of His body. Eph. 5:23

We cannot do this apart from Him. So...
He comes inside and lives and loves through us!
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Post Something I tried to get Brad to answer in another thread... diakoneo
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Everyone (even before the law and apart from the law)has a conscience and undoubtedly it has something to do with the law as demonstrated in Cain and the pre-law patriarchs.

I believe that is how those who have not experienced or known Christ (not rejected Him)in the regeneration will be judged. That is according to how they have violated the conscience. Perhaps that is why Noah was spared and why Enoch was translated. They had not violated the conscience, that inner voice that God placed in man.

So then, what does that mean to us who have been redeemed? Hasn't our conscience been redeemed as well and if we violate it or allow some gnostic doctrine to turn us around. Shame on that one who teaches one to go against the commands of God.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
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Post Re: Something I tried to get Brad to answer in another threa bradfreeman
diakoneo wrote:
Shame on that one who teaches one to go against the commands of God.


Do you teach people to keep the Law of Moses? The Sabbath?

We are led by the Spirit. There is no law against that.

Gal. 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Don't you trust the Spirit of God to lead us into life, truth, love, freedom and faith?
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Post Old Time Country Preacher
Thanks boys, this is good to know, cause I always kinda liked that eye fer an eye thing. Cool Acts-pert Poster
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Post Re: Something I tried to get Brad to answer in another threa diakoneo
bradfreeman wrote:
diakoneo wrote:
Shame on that one who teaches one to go against the commands of God.


Do you teach people to keep the Law of Moses? The Sabbath?

We are led by the Spirit. There is no law against that.

Gal. 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Don't you trust the Spirit of God to lead us into life, truth, love, freedom and faith?


I didn't say it, Jesus did.
And we are talking about the commandments...

"Least in the kingdom of God"...shame yes?
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Post diakoneo
And no I don't teach people the law, but I do not teach them it's ok to break the commandments. Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
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Post Old Time Country Preacher
diakoneo wrote:
I do not teach them it's ok to break the commandments.


Which ones, diakeneo? Adultery? Idolatry?
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Post diakoneo
Old Time Country Preacher wrote:
diakoneo wrote:
I do not teach them it's ok to break the commandments.


Which ones, diakeneo? Adultery? Idolatry?


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Post Dean Steenburgh
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
The Ten Commandments were specifically given to the Hebrews, under the terms of the law of Moses. They absolutely were not given to Gentiles, nor are they binding moral law for the New Covenant believer. The law of Christ is the sole and sufficient New Covenant standard for the believer.


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Post Gentiles, the 10 Commandments, and the Law of Christ Aaron Scott
The 10 commandments were in use long before the Law.

Again, the law simply wrote down what had been the unwritten law before then.

The Law of Christ is ALWAYS in agreement with the 10 commandments, for the 10 commandments will always be supported by "The Golden Rule" and loving God.

So, while it is indirect, if we are governed by the Spirit, we will live up to the 10 Commandments (except any that are clearly done away with via the NT).

For example, the 10 Commandments tell us not to exceed 70 miles per hour on the highway. But we have a new and better law now that tells us not to exceed 60 mph. If we obey the new and better law, we will, happily, also be performing (and then some) the moral law of God.

The 10 Commandments are the ONLY laws of the LAW that everyone is responsible to. For no one naturally feels that circumcision is the right thing to do. But the Romans 2 law written in Gentile hearts is this law.
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Post bradfreeman
A few points on the 10 commandments from 2 Cor. 3 (the passage is re-printed below):

1. God has made us sufficient as ministers of the Spirit, "not of the letter". (v.6) God's enabling power is not on us ministering the 10 commandments.

2. The 10 commandments kill and are the ministry of death.(v.8 ) The Spirit gives life.(v.7) This "ministry of death" was written and engraved on stones and given when Moses face glowed - it is the 10 commandments. (v.7) These 2 (the Law and the Spirit) are as opposite in ministry as life and death. The Spirit does not kill or minister death or enable us as ministers of the 10 commandments.

3. The 10 commandments are the ministry of condemnation. There is no condemnation in Christ because the Spirit made us free from the letter (Rom. 8:2). We are dead to the Law. (Rom.7;1-6) These 2 (the Law and the Spirit) are as opposite in ministry as condemnation and righteousness. God did not send Jesus to condemn, but to save (Jn. 3:17). The Law is opposed to the "no condemnation" purpose of God through Jesus. The Law stood "against us" and was "contrary to us" (Col. 2:14). As believers, God is for us, not "against us".

4. The reading of Moses "to this day" veils hearts and minds. The law is not of faith. Gal. 3:12. The way to get this veil taken away is to "turn" from reliance on law-keeping as a means of righteousness or life "to the Lord" - repentance or metanoia. In Christ, the veil of the 10 commandments is "taken away". (v.14). He has "taken it out of the way". Col 2:14. He has "abolished" it. Eph. 2:15. The law is "cast out" in Christ. Gal. 4:25,30. The new birth (our union with Christ in His death, burial, resurrection, ascension and rest) obliterates all condemnation and death, gives us eternal life, declares us righteous and frees us from judgment! John 5:24; Rom. 6:1-12.

5. The Lord is not the letter. He is not death. He is not condemnation. He is not bondage. The Lord is the Spirit. (v.17) After this lengthy comparison, Paul makes it clear who Jesus is - He is not the letter, He is the Spirit! He is life. He is righteousness. He is freedom. He does not enable ministry that condemns, kills, brings bondage or veils minds. "For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." Jn. 1:17 The Word made flesh was "full of grace and truth". Jn. 1:14. He is not the 10 commandments.

2 Cor. 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious. 12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech-- 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
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Post Re: Gentiles, the 10 Commandments, and the Law of Christ dolfan
Aaron Scott wrote:
The 10 commandments were in use long before the Law.

Again, the law simply wrote down what had been the unwritten law before then.

The Law of Christ is ALWAYS in agreement with the 10 commandments, for the 10 commandments will always be supported by "The Golden Rule" and loving God.

So, while it is indirect, if we are governed by the Spirit, we will live up to the 10 Commandments (except any that are clearly done away with via the NT).

For example, the 10 Commandments tell us not to exceed 70 miles per hour on the highway. But we have a new and better law now that tells us not to exceed 60 mph. If we obey the new and better law, we will, happily, also be performing (and then some) the moral law of God.

The 10 Commandments are the ONLY laws of the LAW that everyone is responsible to. For no one naturally feels that circumcision is the right thing to do. But the Romans 2 law written in Gentile hearts is this law.


Aaron, I don't quote you to gin up someone who agrees with me, and you very well may or may not. But, this post is a good statement of a real problem. The law of Christ IS always in agreement with the 10 commandments because Christ is the lawgiver. Gen. 49:10, Isaiah 33:22, James 4:12.

There is this insistence that Christ Himself is somehow divided between the old and new covenants. He is not. Is Christ divided? No. 1 Cor. 1:13. The new covenant is the fulfillment, not the destruction, of the old. Can I elaborate?

The OT reveals the character and nature of God. Otherwise, Jesus would be fulfilling nothing when He says of Himself that HE is the fulfillment of them, not the abolishment of them in Matthew 5:17. His fulfillment is not merely a coming true of a prediction, but is the substantive fulfillment of all that the law was and all the prophets said. Jesus IS the law. But, when we say so, it isn't to the wiping out of the OT law but rather to the satisfaction of its demands. Now, this superseding law, this Person, reigns within us, WHOLLY CONSISTENT with His revelation of Himself in the Law and in the Prophets. He now enables US, through the Holy Spirit who indwells us, to live up to the law of God. Not that we are now empowered law keepers who are suddenly able to perfect obedience to the rituals and ceremonies of the old covenant which were a mere shadow of the full Law revealed in Christ Jesus, but we are empowered Spirit filled believers who, by grace, through faith, walk in the Spirit and not after the flesh.

It is this latter thing that the OT law could not do. In fact, it never aspired to. The aspiration of the OT law was to reveal sin. The law revealed the holy nature of God. It was never designed to be perfected by the flesh. By the law, I know that God is a Person whose character and nature does not take what is not His. But, in my flesh, I will both want what is not mine and I will act in ways to take what is not mine. I know by the law that God does not have a desire to rob a person and take from a person, and I know by the law that God is sufficient unto Himself. But, I also know that in my flesh, I will want what is not mine and I will covet it to the point that I don't want someone else to have it if I can't. The law teaches me about myself by saying do not steal, do not covet. It teaches me who God is. It teaches me that I may, to an extent, comply with the outer requirements and that I can resist my impulses to a point, but it also teaches me that my observance of the law will never change my nature. I still am rotten inside. Why? Because I still walk after the flesh and not after the Spirit if the OT law is all I have.

Enter Jesus, the Lawgiver, who still is God, who still is of the holy and divine nature, and assumes human flesh. Enter Jesus, the Lawgiver, who still is sinless and does not yield to temptation although He is tempted. Enter Jesus, who FULFILLS all of the requirements of the Law, both inwardly and outwardly, and does what I cannot. He fulfills and lives in full compliance with the Law. And, then because it pleased God that His Son should suffer in bringing many sons to glory (Heb. 2), Jesus fulfilled the atonement of all sins, once for all, by His obedience to the Father u to death on a cross. God poured out His wrath upon His Son. Jesus died for my sins. All of the law was satisfied. It was finished.

But it was not destroyed. It was not abolished. Now, I have a better covenant because of His blood shed for me. I have a covenant whereby the actual Holy Spirit of God lives in me and empowers me, through the renewal of my mind, to move from one kind of person toward His kind of Person, to be conformed to the image of Christ. This happens in practical ways in everyday living.

I believe in Him, I repent of my sins, He lives in me and forgives me, and He gives me Himself. He gives me His actual power to live in a way that pleases Him. I live in faith in the Son of God who gave Himself for me. But. He gives me this Word to look at, the one in which He reveals Himself to me, the one by which, as I study it and put it into moment by moment practice, He approves me and I show myself to be approved by Him. I am graced with fruit of the Spirit, working from the inside out of me. I look at the ways in which the whole counsel of His a Word, rightly divided, reveals Him, and I walk with Him to obey----yes, OBEY---His counsel. I look at those things which were written before for my learning and I walk in the Spirit and not in the lusts of the flesh. The things written before for my learning? The LAW. The PROPHETS.

And, it is easy to learn from them because I see how that Elijah was obedient and triumphant on Carmel, for example, and straightway forgot what manner of God he served by the time Jezebel swore to kill him. I see that and I know in my flesh, I, too forget God. But, I have also hidden His word in my heart that I might not sin against him, so I HEAR the counsel of the Holy Spirit that greater is he who is in me than he who is in the world, I HEAR the counsel of His word to fear not, but to know that perfect love casts out fear and that I can have no confidence in the flesh, as Paul said. So, in my weakness, I am reminded by Him who lives in me that I do not have to forget God, that I do not have to walk in fear or whatever, that I am the temple of the spirit and that I have an assignment from God to carry His gospel to the lost and I have the promise and power of God to have from Him all that is needed to obey Him and do what He says.

This is the Law and the Prophets fulfilled in Christ and at work, even still, in me and in you and in all who believe, in truth.
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Post realistic question wayne
If we are being taught to discard things that are outdated and not written to us - then do we discard the letter written to the Romans

Romans 1:7 7 I am writing to all of you in Rome who are loved by God and are called to be his own holy people.

And if that's the case do we discard Ephesians, Corinthians, etc? I'm thinking, if outsiders were to read this forum they would conclude that the bible is irrelevant. The old testament is outdated and done away with and pretty much all of the new testament was not written specifically to me.

Now, I may not be as smart as you fellers but what I'm pulling away from these long discussions is that the bible does not apply to and even the church people agree with this stance.
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Post Scooter
The answer is yes.

Whatsoever things the Lord commands us, writes upon our hearts is our moral code.

That includes the 10 commandments even deeper than written in stone.

Jesus taught on these things and "commanded" us to love God and one another. All the other things are incompassed in these.

Jesus also taught on the sabbath which seems to be the trojan horse to say see we don't keep them. However Jesus taught that the sabbath was made for a purpose. That purpose is also contained in loving. Worship and rest. Each of us now realize that true worship is not confined to one day, Jesus is our everyday worship. The day has come in which people worship in spirit and in truth.

Also we should adhere to a day of rest. As most of us do. Not in the letter of don't do this or that but in the spirit of don't overdo as a habit.
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