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Why cannot an individual be saved after death?
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Post Why cannot an individual be saved after death? caseyleejones
I have been taught this for years that the only chance you get at accepting Jesus is before death. Why or why not?

Is there clear cut evidence(biblical) that you will be forever in torment because you did not accept Jesus? This would require us to all disrobe doctrinally to attack this from a scriptural point of view.

At least then, people would see who the real Son of God is and make a choice without the deception of satan.
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11/28/13 4:50 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
Unbelievers are not condemned simply for rejecting Jesus. In every description of the judgment, people are expressly condemned for their own willful sins against what they KNOW to be right (See Rom 1 for instance).

Sin is the fatal disease, and Jesus is the only remedy for sin, but it is our own willful sin that condemns us. Rejecting Jesus is of course a sin they add to their other sins, but they were condemned already before they rejected Him, if they had sinned before they heard of Jesus.
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11/28/13 5:12 pm


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Post caseyleejones... Aaron Scott
I have long ago concluded that those who lived as well as they knew to live (see Romans 2), but never heard of Jesus (or, if they heard of Him, were not given enough knowledge to know what to do), WILL be given the opportunity to know Him?

It's perfectly logical. Consider...

NO ONE gets saved without Jesus.

These good folks did not hear of Jesus.

God is a good God and would never put someone in hell who had done the best they knew to do, but never heard of Jesus.

So...if someone dies before knowing of Jesus, they WILL hear of Jesus, etc.
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11/28/13 7:17 pm


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Post DHDRabbi
Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. That should get you in, right? [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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11/28/13 7:30 pm


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Post Did I get the luck of the draw? I was born into a christian caseyleejones
family where Jesus was pounded in to me daily. I eventually embraced faith in Jesus in my own way. In fact, I might be considered as straying from my family tradition...albeit still saved.

There are others who have heard about Jesus very passively like most all other so called gods. These individuals are muslems. They did not choose Islam to defy Jesus or to be anti-Jesus. They are upright individuals who live moral lives. In fact, some of them are friends of mine. They chose it because they feel they have chosen the right path just as we feel that Jesus is the right path.

I am not embracing all go to heaven. But our view of God and His ways resembles Monty Hall and Lets Make a Deal, I chose the right door while all others chose the wrong one. I win the prize.

I just don't buy it that someone goes to eternal torment because they chose the wrong "door" whether through deception or not hearing the gospel. That's not fair nor just!

Once death takes place, all deception is gone and people see who the true son of God is.....then and only then can they legitimately make a right decision.
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11/28/13 9:33 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Rom 1:18-20

Ignorance condemns no one. Sin against the light one does have is what condemns anyone in any culture, in any time, in any place. All are without excuse for sin, and the wages of sin is death.
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11/28/13 9:47 pm


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Post Why? The Bible tells you so. Rafael D Martinez
Heb 9:27

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Revelation 20:12

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

John 5:25-29

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth
; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Revelation 20:15

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Pretty self explanatory.
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11/29/13 6:03 am


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Post DHDRabbi
Quote:
the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.


Wait....this supports the notion that one can be saved after death. Thanks for that!
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11/29/13 6:49 am


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Post bradfreeman
CLJ, I think one reason we fail to recognize that the scripture which indicates the dead will be judged doesn't preclude the notion that they will be given a chance to believe is that it weakens our theology of terror.

Here are a few passages to throw into the discussion:

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, 20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

1 Peter 4:6 For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God.

The gospel was preached to the dead. Why? So they "may live in the spirit". Not only would an after death opportunity free men from the deception of Satan, but it would also allow for the gospel to be presented without passing through the flawed and tainted character of men.

Interesting question...
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11/29/13 9:04 am


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Post Exactly what I was saying....... caseyleejones
"Not only would an after death opportunity free men from the deception of Satan, but it would also allow for the gospel to be presented without passing through the flawed and tainted character of men. "

....and it would seem that we cannot refute that from scripture...or at least nobody has up to this point.
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11/29/13 9:24 am


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Post Yes he did..... caseyleejones
DHDRabbi wrote:
Quote:
the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.


Wait....this supports the notion that one can be saved after death. Thanks for that!
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11/29/13 9:27 am


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Post DrDuck
Well, hallelujah! Now that we finally understand we have labored under a delusion so long, now we can stop all mission work. We no longer need to "go into all the world and preach the Gospel." We don't even need to preach evangelistic messages or do personal witnessing. Acts-celerater
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11/29/13 9:33 am


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Post Instead of being sarcastic....bring something to caseyleejones
DrDuck wrote:
Well, hallelujah! Now that we finally understand we have labored under a delusion so long, now we can stop all mission work. We no longer need to "go into all the world and preach the Gospel." We don't even need to preach evangelistic messages or do personal witnessing.


The table the bible. I would live to hear what you have to say.
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11/29/13 9:49 am


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Post JLarry
To anyone who believes there will be another chance after death. I really hope you are right. I personally have not seen Scripture that supports that, but I still hope you are right.

I have seen those who were taught about Jesus. They knew the way but never received Christ.

My understanding of Scripture is that after you die, then the judgement. You will be judged as to where you will go. There is another judgement "the great white throne judgement". I suppose this is where you be judged by your deeds.

I also do not believe in "eternal security" but I hope I am wrong on this also. I also believe in the pre trib and I hope I am right on this one.

As you can see I believe I am right. Very Happy
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11/29/13 9:52 am


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Post Ernie Long
DrDuck wrote:
Well, hallelujah! Now that we finally understand we have labored under a delusion so long, now we can stop all mission work. We no longer need to "go into all the world and preach the Gospel." We don't even need to preach evangelistic messages or do personal witnessing.


Exactly what I was thinking reading this thread. No more putting up with church people.

No more being blame for everything that is wrong with the church.

No more ToT, state official's, and no more looking for that better church.

No more witnessing to the lost.

No more church hoppers, sliders, or floaters.

No more tv preachers.

Forget the altar, forget the deathbed confessions, just live anyway you want and after you breathe your last breath...

It seems the more knowledge we have the dumber we get. Rolling Eyes
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11/29/13 9:56 am


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Post Because we are commanded to. caseyleejones
What you are saying is speculation of why we should. Acts-perienced Poster
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11/29/13 10:32 am


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Post DHDRabbi
The argument of "I guess we don't have to________" is not valid. We do the things we do because God asked us to. Even those who believe in predestination still preach the Gospel. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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11/29/13 10:39 am


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Post DrDuck
DHDRabbi wrote:
The argument of "I guess we don't have to________" is not valid. We do the things we do because God asked us to. Even those who believe in predestination still preach the Gospel.


I don't think it is invalid since the lost condition of humanity is the very reason for the command.
What would become invalid is all evangelistic effort whatever the reason or command, if the things being said here were true.
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11/29/13 11:40 am


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Post DD, again you are rationalizing and speculating as why we caseyleejones
DrDuck wrote:
DHDRabbi wrote:
The argument of "I guess we don't have to________" is not valid. We do the things we do because God asked us to. Even those who believe in predestination still preach the Gospel.


I don't think it is invalid since the lost condition of humanity is the very reason for the command.
What would become invalid is all evangelistic effort whatever the reason or command, if the things being said here were true.


should go.

On a side note....Humanity is lost and we see sins effects. But I have to honestly say that if I truly believed in eternal security and believed that all people go to heaven, my walk with Christ would not change. I don't follow Jesus due to fear or a ticket to heaven. I enjoy the relationship. I live a better life as a Christ follower than not.

I don't know of one person who calls themselves a Christ follower whose main purpose is to avoid hell.
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11/29/13 11:45 am


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Post Re: DD, again you are rationalizing and speculating as why w DrDuck
caseyleejones wrote:
DrDuck wrote:
DHDRabbi wrote:
The argument of "I guess we don't have to________" is not valid. We do the things we do because God asked us to. Even those who believe in predestination still preach the Gospel.


I don't think it is invalid since the lost condition of humanity is the very reason for the command.
What would become invalid is all evangelistic effort whatever the reason or command, if the things being said here were true.


should go.

On a side note....Humanity is lost and we see sins effects. But I have to honestly say that if I truly believed in eternal security and believed that all people go to heaven, my walk with Christ would not change. I don't follow Jesus due to fear or a ticket to heaven. I enjoy the relationship. I live a better life as a Christ follower than not.

I don't know of one person who calls themselves a Christ follower whose main purpose is to avoid hell.


And now I confess that I don't know why I ever even responded, or why anyone would even ask, such a useless question to begin with.
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11/29/13 11:51 am


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