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Why Men Have Stopped Singing in Church (L)
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Post Why Men Have Stopped Singing in Church (L) Carolyn Smith
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/afewgrownmen/2013/05/why-men-have-stopped-singing-in-church/

And yet worship leaders feel like they're failing if they're not constantly introducing new music....interesting!
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9/19/13 5:47 am


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Post Re: Why Men Have Stopped Singing in Church (L) Resident Skeptic
Carolyn Smith wrote:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/afewgrownmen/2013/05/why-men-have-stopped-singing-in-church/

And yet worship leaders feel like they're failing if they're not constantly introducing new music....interesting!


This sight is blocked here at my job for some reason. But concerning your comment....I have a radical concept I'd like to share with worship leaders..

1) Dig out some of the more powerful songs from 20-30 years ago. There is a whole generations of new believers who never heard them and will be blessed by them.

2) Allow the more meaningful classic hymns to be sung. Comon', you know how people react on the rare occassions they are sung. Don't deny it.

3.) Learn to lead worship with just a couple of background singers instead of these 10-20 member "praise teams". Place them in the background. With a large group leading worship, people get confused and don't know if the song being sung is congregational or a special number, especially when there are "solo parts" every song. Things get too blurred. During the congregational singing, use songs that are more condusive for that type of singing. Draw a clear distinction between the time for congregational singing and the time for special singing.
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Post Resident Skeptic
I found the article on a link that was not blocked.

Wow!! Great article!! I've had an uneasiness in my spirit for more than 10 years about the direction worship has taken in our churches. The couple of times I've diplomatically tried to speak up, I've been smacked down by angry worship leaders.

I removed myself from music ministry all together about a year ago because of all this micro-management. I was on the list to sing special songs once a month, usually on Wednesday night. I had tons of soundtracks from the 70's, 80's and 90's on cassette, and I had them transferred to CD with the sound quality cleaned up. Every time I sang one of them , people over 40 would go nuts! "WHERE did you find that soundtrack? Oh my God! That song really impacted me in my early years as a Christian! Thank you!!" Even our youth sat up and took notice. One night I sang Don Francisco's "I Don't Care Where You've Been Sleeping". Not a dry eye in the place. Ah, but the music minister DID NOT LIKE IT! Why? Because it did not fit the direction he wanted to take the music department.

I've never bucked authority or tried to rock the boat. I just ease out of sight. Three years ago I posted on my FB page a short exhortation by Jack Hatford from the early 90's where he predicted and warned against this trend of complexity in worship services. All I commented was, "I found this word to be challenging and thought provoking, but I'd like to hear the opinion of others." Our worship leader and guitar player went NUTS!! They took it as some sort of personal attack. But I was not aiming it at them in the slightest. Their reaction certainly made me think it stepped on their toes and brought to the surface their insecurities.
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Last edited by Resident Skeptic on 9/19/13 11:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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9/19/13 9:28 am


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Post Good Article c6thplayer1
One sentence hits home.. "People enjoy singing songs they know." Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
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9/19/13 11:09 am


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Post A Few Questions pastor.keith
I pastor a multigenerational church and many of our older members say they can't sing with our newer songs. So, this topic is dear to my heart. I think we have to ask ourselves a few questions concerning worship as this conversation is progressed.

1) Who is worship for? Is worship for the unsaved visitor, the member, or is it for God. I do believe our music must be attractional, but I also believe the visitor must see passionate worship coming from those who have already come to know Jesus. I respect the contribution that the older generation has made in building and sacrificing at times to maintain the only Church of God left in our city. However, we all agree we must reach the next generation. I was very proud during a recent discussion one of our older members said, "I'm here and going to be here, but I want something left at this church when I'm gone".

2) Is singing worship? Does someone actually have to sing the songs to be worshipping? I know that singing can be worship, but I'm not sure that just because someone isn't singing that they aren't worshipping. Is it just a condition like we have to clap during fast songs and lift our hands during slow songs?
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9/19/13 11:17 am


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Post Quiet Wyatt
I have always felt that having a good blend of songs old and new was the wisest and most scriptural approach. Both extremes (only the new is anointed, or only the old is) are silly at best and prideful at worst.

The attitude of many seems to be that nothing but the latest and greatest "cutting edge" songs are worthy of singing. Like junior high schoolers, they look with disdain on anything other than the latest Top 40.

The other extreme, that only the old-time gospel songs are capable of being anointed, is just as wrongheaded and silly. Even the old hymns were originally contemporary.
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9/19/13 11:34 am


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Post I like a mix of songs... W. Ray Williams
although I personally lean toward new music, I know that in worship we need a familiarity with the songs and activities of worship.

I do have one question:

"If I only find deep inspiration in the songs of 40 years ago, am I devaluing the work of the Holy Spirit in song writers of today?"

Corallary:

"If I only find value in songs of today, am i devaluing and disrespecting the ageless truth of the past?"

I hear far too often that only songs of the past charge up a congregation. This may wound harsh, but that congregation has settled for a move of God in the past and try to re-create the history of that particular body. A church body that is moving toward the end of time will move, change and shift with time while remaining respectful and finding value in the great moves of God in the past.

Some of the best modern congregations use old songs in almost every set. I would commend to you Flood Church in San Diego, CA at www.diveintoflood.com and Red Mountain Church in Birmingham, AL at http://www.redmountainchurch.org/.

Two very different churches that have deep respect for the past.

I would also commend Jadon Lavik as an artist who is making the past alive and real to a whole new generation of listeners.
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Post Have a song leaders... roughridercog
Whose voice has changed and can lead songs in a manly key. Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Post Re: Have a song leaders... Quiet Wyatt
roughridercog wrote:
Whose voice has changed and can lead songs in a manly key. :lol: :lol: :lol:


LOL.

A while back I was driving a van load of campers back from youth camp when somebody commented that our church should start doing a song they had learned at youth camp that week. (In addition to being the pastor, I am the only songleader we have at our church). I chuckled and said that in order for that to happen they'd have to find a guy who sings like a girl to lead it.
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Post Re: Good Article Eddie Robbins
c6thplayer1 wrote:
One sentence hits home.. "People enjoy singing songs they know."


And after a couple of times singing a new song, you know it. Oh, sing a new song!!
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Post Re: Good Article Nature Boy Florida
Eddie Robbins wrote:
c6thplayer1 wrote:
One sentence hits home.. "People enjoy singing songs they know."


And after a couple of times singing a new song, you know it. Oh, sing a new song!!


I love new songs.

I don't like worship songs that have a bunch of solos.

What's the point?

People need to sing.
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Post Eddie Robbins
Music is one of the most controversial things in the church. The problem comes when a church decides to change their music style. Acts-pert Poster
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Post Re: Good Article Resident Skeptic
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
c6thplayer1 wrote:
One sentence hits home.. "People enjoy singing songs they know."


And after a couple of times singing a new song, you know it. Oh, sing a new song!!


I love new songs.

I don't like worship songs that have a bunch of solos.

What's the point?

People need to sing.


Amen. This really hit home with me about 12 years ago when the "praise team" fad really began to crank up. As a congregational song, we were singing the chorus to that old hymn.....

Quote:
Leave it there, leave it there,
Take your burden to the Lord and leave it there.
If you trust and never doubt, He will surely bring you out.
Take your burden to the Lord and leave it there.


I was on the praise team that service, singing tenor.

Notice the emboldened line. It was being sung as a congregational worship chorus, right? So I sang that line like all the others. The music director gave me a horrified look. Then one of the other singers whispered in my ear....


Quote:

That line is a solo part for Sister Becky Sue. The rest of are to remain silent on that one line.


It was a congregational song, for crying out loud!! Why didn't they announce to the congregation as well to be silent on that line??!! That is when I knew that a new, dark day was upon us all. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Post Quiet Wyatt
My introduction to the praise team 'fad' was in the mid 80s among the charismatics. Being from a fairly traditional Pentecostal background where we primarily sang from the hymnal and were led by a solo songleader, it seemed very strange to see 5 or 10 or more singers all with mics on the stage, lyrics projected on the wall, etc. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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Post Carolyn Smith
As I commented to my FB friend that posted this, in a perfect world, we have a blend of old/new & traditional/contemporary. We have "hymn nights" every so often, but we are somewhat limited by the piano player (me!) Everyone seems to enjoy the old hymns, and I enjoy singing from the heart and not having to remember a special arrangement or how many times we sing the chorus before we go to the bridge. LOL

And as someone here commented, it saddens me that there are churches that don't recognize the beauty and yes, the tradition of the hymns. I've seen many people post that they don't sing hymns at their churches anymore, and it's sorely missed. On the other hand, it also saddens me when folks feel like the only songs worth singing are in the Redback, and if you aren't singing them, it's just not anointed.

I think some of the truth is that we are nostalgic about things from our younger days, and the older we get, the fonder we recall those things.

My kids didn't learn the hymns in the COG, but in the Baptist church where they went to school. Kind of sad in a way that we are not passing that heritage on to our children. I enjoy & respect that heritage, but at the same time, I wouldn't want to do just hymns every week.

I bet some of our older generation would be horrified to learn that a lot of the great hymns of the church were new songs written and put to the tunes of bar songs. Music history tells us that they used the music from the bar tunes because people were familiar with them already.

I also agree that you can worship without music, but it is a tool to enhance worship, IMHO. It helps gets our focus off ourselves and our problems and helps us become God-focused.

The prophet Elisha asked for a minstrel when he needed to hear from the Lord. As the minstrel played & worshiped, God spoke to Elisha.

A lot of the contemporary music is complex, but I don't think the intention was ever that the congregation should stop singing. Sometimes we get so caught up in "getting it right" that we lose the importance of the message in the song. Again, a balance is needed to make it truly work for a congregation.
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9/19/13 10:25 pm


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Post A good old convention song... roughridercog
Would totally baffle many young believers Laughing
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Post Randy Johnson
Carolyn Smith wrote:
A lot of the contemporary music is complex, but I don't think the intention was ever that the congregation should stop singing. Sometimes we get so caught up in "getting it right" that we lose the importance of the message in the song. Again, a balance is needed to make it truly work for a congregation.


I think this is the key issue here, rather than newness or oldness of the songs. It's not just about nostalgia or the speed or the beat, it's about not wanting to have to work at learning a complex song and not wanting to be heard and embarrassed if you can't handle the syncopation, rhythm, and strange syllable strings sung at odd intervals.

Second, I think people are more comfortable with simple lyrics rather than some of the complex thought ideas presented in newer songs. Every time I hear that song about the "sloppy wet kiss", I simply stop singing. I don't even remember the title of the song or any of the other lyrics or the melody, so it always catches me by surprise, but it is not memorable for me and it doesn't absolutely nothing for me in assisting my spirit and mind to make contact with God.
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Post Re: Good Article Cojak
c6thplayer1 wrote:
One sentence hits home.. "People enjoy singing songs they know."


this is true for me, especially around Christmas. I love it when we sing the traditional carols. Being deaf, I can still join in. That is a personal note.

But I still think that is a very true statement, "People enjoy singing songs they know." Smile
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Post Re: Good Article javajoel
c6thplayer1 wrote:
One sentence hits home.. "People enjoy singing songs they know."


Great article and I am personally wrestling with this in our church, where most people don't listen to christian music or worship music unless they are at a church event.
So I am just wondering the age old question if society is getting more unchurched and by chance get saved what is the chance of them knowing any church song new or old?
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9/21/13 1:57 am


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Post Eddie Robbins
Quote:
Every time I hear that song about the "sloppy wet kiss", I simply stop singing.


I guess you don't read the Song of Solomon either. Laughing

Hey, I agree with you. That is a GREAT song that got ruined by one phrase. Some change the phrase.
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