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Let's have dialog about same-sex marriage
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Post Eddie Robbins
I want to know how the legalization of same-sex marriage would affect us in ways other than the spiritual. I know y'all can't help yourselves. To answer you, however, what Paul says is marriage has nothing to do with what the government of the USA says. This is not a religious state. We have all kinds of laws that are contrary to what the Bible says. This is why I say the state cannot define marriage any more than it can define baptism. Civil Unions are the way to go for the government and let the church define marriage. That's my opinion. Acts-pert Poster
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4/5/13 6:46 pm


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Post So Eddie... FG Minister
I did answer you many posts ago from a secular viewpoint. And I understand why you posed it the way you did. We cannot impose Biblical values on unsaved people. I get that. But does that mean I can't express my Biblical views to the government??

So I have a question for you. As a Christian, do I have any obligation to speak to the government regarding my opposition to civil unions as a state-sanctioned event because of the perversion of homosexuality?

Do you as a Christian have any responsibility to speak Biblical truth to your government regarding homosexuality? Or do you just say - this is a secular state and therefore religion has nothing to do with what the government does. If you agree with the latter - I wholeheartedly disagree with your approach. I know my congressman, have his private cell phone number, and I voice my Biblical opinions to him. My Christian faith does not end at the government doorstep. If this is your approach and I adopt it, I should shut my mouth about abortion, indecency laws, and a whole host of other Biblical/moral issues. I'm sorry - that is not the American way and certainly not the Christian way.
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4/7/13 9:01 am


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Post Quiet Wyatt
Everyone knows sin is wrong and should never be justified in any way.

Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. (Romans 1:32 NIV)
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
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4/7/13 10:36 am


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Post Eddie Robbins
FG Minister: First of all, abortion is in a difference category. There are people who think it is wrong to take a life who aren't Christians. It is the role of the government to protect it's citizens and protecting the unborn is a fundamental belief that doesn't have to be spiritual, though it certainly is as well.

As a disciple of Christ, I don't find where Jesus asked us to force our government to abide by my religious convictions. So, for me, it is not important. What IS important is that I try to be in the business of changing hearts, not laws. That is my view and you are free to have yours. Freedom!
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4/7/13 12:14 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Eddie,
Thou shalt not murder is a biblical commandment. Same as thou shalt not steal.

Jesus didn't ask our govt to enforce those either.

So - should we be just as casual about whether we want our govt to enforce those, as well?

Just because it's in the Bible doesn't mean the govt should be indifferent. It may be fashionable to take the 10 commandments out of all govt institutions (because they are in the Bible) or it may be fashionable to change the biblical meaning of marriage - but it does not mean the govt should be indifferent.

The rules in the Bible - starting with the ten commandments are good rules for rank sinners to follow (as well as Christians). Just being in the Bible doesn't invalidate it.

Just as the Bible showing the proper way to raise a family is one man and one woman - doesn't invalidate it.

A nation following these rules have been very successful.

A nation not following them have been less successful.

Not sure why any govt trying to "rule well" - be it democracy or dictator or king - would not use rules that have a proven track record.
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4/8/13 5:38 pm


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Post Eddie Robbins
Quote:
Thou shalt not murder is a biblical commandment. Same as thou shalt not steal.

Jesus didn't ask our govt to enforce those either.

So - should we be just as casual about whether we want our govt to enforce those, as well?


Nope. Those are fundamental in our government's beliefs because they are hurting someone else. What about keeping the Sabbath Day Holy? Do we petition the US Government for that as well? Force all businesses to be closed on Saturday? Should we force the government to enforce the rule of honoring our mother and father? Anyone not doing so goes to prison? The two you listed hurt someone else and makes common sense for them to be a part of the country's fundamental beliefs.
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4/8/13 6:08 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Quote:
Thou shalt not murder is a biblical commandment. Same as thou shalt not steal.

Jesus didn't ask our govt to enforce those either.

So - should we be just as casual about whether we want our govt to enforce those, as well?


Nope. Those are fundamental in our government's beliefs because they are hurting someone else. What about keeping the Sabbath Day Holy? Do we petition the US Government for that as well? Force all businesses to be closed on Saturday? Should we force the government to enforce the rule of honoring our mother and father? Anyone not doing so goes to prison? The two you listed hurt someone else and makes common sense for them to be a part of the country's fundamental beliefs.


Sorry Eddie - I sure wish our govt believed like you say it does. Those are not fundamental to our govt's beliefs. Example: Seems the govt is happy with abortion and I suspect it is quite painful. So hurting someone is not how our govt determines its laws.

What does determine it? Hopefully common sense. Hopefully some things are inalienable - that we are endowed with by our Creator. How that translates to laws is what we charge our legislators with creating.

So - my point is - we have every right to want our govt to adopt rules that reflect common sense - and that common sense has a proven track record - often found in the Bible.
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4/8/13 6:56 pm


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Post Eddie Robbins
There are lots of laws/rules that are also in the Bible, but we certainly don't petition for all of them, do we? Why not? The reason is because we are not a religious state and don't want to be. We can't even agree within our own churches on rules, much less wanting to enforce them on citizens of the country. Acts-pert Poster
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4/8/13 6:59 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
SO - does that mean we make no laws?

There are some folks that like to murder.

Charles Manson for one. Do we legalize murder to make him happy? (Again - abortion has proven that the U.S. govt of today doesn't care if it hurts someone)
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4/8/13 7:03 pm


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Post Eddie Robbins
Murder is against the law but like we do in the church, some interpret laws/rules/scripture different than others. We should always petition for abortion to be illegal. I don't think that is what this thread is about though. Acts-pert Poster
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4/8/13 7:07 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Maybe not - but you detoured when you said our govt only makes laws dealing with things that hurt others - and I guess the implication is that homosexual marriage doesn't.

I made my point that the govt isn't concerned about hurting - only an agenda. What would be wrong with a Christian agenda that doesn't allow homosexual marriage or alcoholic sales on Sunday. And the answer is - nothing. The only way we went down this path is an over reach by the Supreme Court.
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4/8/13 7:12 pm


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Post Eddie Robbins
Why only on Sunday? Laughing Acts-pert Poster
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4/8/13 7:21 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Whatever days you want Eddie.

Making sense doesn't matter (re: two men having sex together)
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4/8/13 7:22 pm


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Post Eddie Robbins
What makes sense to one, doesn't always to another. We live in a diverse country. At what point do you want to enforce your religious convictions on another? Maybe when it hurts others? Or, because you think it is gross? Why choose one sin and let a thousand others pass by? What not just petition the government for a Christian state? Let's force people to abide by the Bible. Of course, we can't agree on it in our churches. Acts-pert Poster
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4/8/13 7:28 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
I think most common-sense laws are basically variations on the Golden Rule, whether by accident or design. For instance, everyone knows it is wrong to steal, even thieves. Same goes for lying or fraud. In the U.S., we have recognized God-given rights to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." All of these are aspects of the Golden Rule, whether that was the original source of them in the Declaration of Independence or not. "Treat others the way you expect to be treated," which is itself an aspect of the moral law everyone has in their conscience (Romans 2:14-16) is very basic to humanity. One really doesn't need to appeal explicitly to the Bible to show the basis for such laws which all men everywhere acknowledge as morality, whether they obey the law written in their conscience or not. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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4/8/13 7:42 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Agreed.

So why would we allow homosexual marriage?

It has nothing to do with the Bible.

It has to do with mother nature.

For goodness sake - mother nature says (to Al Gore) that man is causing global warming - so he wants to change laws to accommodate mother nature.

Why aren't we accommodating mother nature regarding homosexual marriage - why don't we follow what nature tells us here? Why isn't Al Gore championing mother nature here?
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4/8/13 7:47 pm


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Post Eddie Robbins
Quote:
It has nothing to do with the Bible.


Thanks for getting back to the subject.

I guess it will be allowed when the people vote for it.
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4/8/13 7:54 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Quote:
It has nothing to do with the Bible.


Thanks for getting back to the subject.

I guess it will be allowed when the people vote for it.


That's where you are wrong.

The courts will decide - the oligarchy of 9.
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4/8/13 8:00 pm


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Post Eddie Robbins
Maybe. That's what they do. Interpret the Constitution. But, again, just like we do in the church, they disagree on interpretations sometimes. That's our system and there's nothing you or I can do about it. All the posts we can put on Facebook won't sway a judge. Votes for president have consequences. Acts-pert Poster
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4/8/13 8:06 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
Does everybody know that having sex with animals is wrong? If so, why? [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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4/8/13 10:59 pm


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