Actscelerate.com Forum Index Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
r/Actscelerate

End-Time Great Revival
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
   Actscelerate.com Forum Index -> Feature Presentations This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Message Author
Post Hey, Chain, MS7777
you're "off the chain" with your comments. You are merely spouting what you heard rather than "examining the fruit".

quote]There were many sound Assembly of God pastors, evangelists, theologians, and even administrators and professors who seriously questioned the validity of the so-called "revival" when it happened. These were all men with far more credibility and experience than you and I combined. There were even web sites set up, such as Contemporary Pentecostal Issues, in the late 1990s to address these doctrinal errors.
[/quote]
Quote:
I had an A/G pastor acquaintance at the time who said to me, "I don't really care if the manifestations at Brownsville are of the Spirit or of the flesh; the Assemblies of God is becoming so dead and dry we need something, anything, to get us moving again". I couldn't believe my ears when I heard that. As Rodney Howard-Browne once said, "I'd rather have the devil manifesting than be in a church where nothing is happening."


I realize Dr. Opal Redding of our CBC and a few others were concerned with the "manifestations" and had websites up decrying some of the fleshly sights. However, that said - I was a Presbyter (your AB) at the time and my Dist. Supt. in Ohio criticized the same things. Then, he went there and experienced it for himself. It changed his life. He became one of the Board members I mentioned earlier and a strong proponent of the Revival. If you had been there, when you listened to Steve preach, it was pure salvation - and heavy and strong conviction. In fact, my complaint at the time was he was too strong on some of his holiness. I am not involved in any known sinful lifestyle but even I wondered if I was saved after he preached. THat's why the altars were full. People like you who weren't there looked at a girl in the choir loft who shook for 4 hours a night and criticized but when you listened to her testimony you realized what God was doing in her life. Dr. Opal missed that in my opinion and let me tell you what "extra-biblical" means: it means different than what you have seen up to that point. On the day of Pentecost the 120 experienced "an extra-biblical" event. Never saw it that way before, did we?

When God chooses to show up in response to the expectation and hunger of any people, He tends to mess things up. Revival can get messy. Flesh will come, but hey, let's quit throwing the baby out with the bath water shall we? Pastor Jackson and millions of others experienced the Presence of God, had their hearts changed, even if only for a season. What more do we want? Isn't that what we're all trying to do, bring heaven into earth and transform men's hearts? (Even Billy Graham's "Biblical" message only mangaes to keep abou 10% in the church over time.) I can assure you, that Brownsville did NOT push experience over Scripture. Listen to Steve Hill preach - "White Cane Judgement" and tell me that. Steve was a respected AG Missionary with a full understanding of the Word when he came to Brownsville and nothing changed while he was there.

Your criticism has been the bane of the Pentecostal movement since Azusa St. "Experience over Scripture" has been the rallying cry of those cynics against the move of the Holy Ghost since the beginning. If you don't think Peter and John and Paul "Experienced God" with their flesh you need to read the Book of Acts again.

Brownsville was led by imperfect people, the early church in the Book of Acts was led by imperfect people, Praise the Lord they were willing to be mocked in order to encounter God. Put me down as an "Imperfect vessel" who is willing to be mocked so that I might "experience heaven on earth".

Be Blessed, I was at Brownsville and still am...
_________________
Acts 1:8
Acts-celerater
Posts: 727
2/22/13 12:08 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post chainrattler
So why even have Declarations of Faith or Statements of Fundamental Truths? Why bother?

Why not just tell people, "You experience God your way, and I'll experience Him in mine, and as long as we are nice to each other and don't try to kill each other, it's all cool."?
Acts-celerater
Posts: 976
2/22/13 5:35 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post I don't MS7777
recall saying anything about denying the statement of fundamental truths nor did anyone including Dr.Opal ever accuse Brownsville of going against them in any way. I don't see any statement regarding "EXTRA-Biblical" manifestations. not only that but I think think you missed the point of my previous post.
_________________
Acts 1:8
Acts-celerater
Posts: 727
2/22/13 7:07 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: I don't chainrattler
MS7777 wrote:
recall saying anything about denying the statement of fundamental truths nor did anyone including Dr.Opal ever accuse Brownsville of going against them in any way. I don't see any statement regarding "EXTRA-Biblical" manifestations. not only that but I think think you missed the point of my previous post.


1. The Scriptures Inspired
The Scriptures, both the Old and New Testaments, are verbally inspired of God and are the revelation of God to man, the infallible, authoritative rule of faith and conduct.

First one, the Scriptures are the authoritative rule of faith and conduct.

Many of the manifestations at Brownsville were not supportable by Scripture, thus a violation of the "authoritative rule of faith and conduct".

The argument given to support those manifestations was about the same as the arguments given by the Jesus Only folks in 1915, "You can't get this revelation (baptism in Jesus' name only) by studying it out like other doctrines."

And about Steve Hill's preaching? You were right, it was very legalistic, not like the preaching of the apostles and others in the book of Acts.

There were also too many ties to Toronto as well (e.g. Pastor Kilpatrick's wife), which had ties to the errors of the Latter Rain Movement of the late 1940s. It was all part of the same vine, just redressed in different clothes for a new generation.

What I have never been able to understand is why so few Pentecostal churches seem to have all nine of the manifestations of the Spirit that can be verified by Scripture, yet they are so willing to jump on the bandwagon and accept pseudo-manifestations that have no scriptural support.

And the bottom line always is, I or someone I know and respect went there and got "blessed", therefore that is proof that it was of God, no matter what the Scriptures teach. So it ends up being the experience of the individual that is the authoritative rule of faith and conduct, not the Scriptures themselves. That is what really bothers me.
Acts-celerater
Posts: 976
2/23/13 12:53 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Quiet Wyatt
Chained Rattler,

Is old-time Pentecostal "dancing in the Spirit" supportable by Scripture? Is the classic Pentecostal head jerk? Falling out under the power? What about running the aisles? Where precisely is that spelled out in Scripture?

By your own standard, these kinds of classical Pentecostal expressions or manifestations undermine the authority of Scripture.
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12784
2/23/13 2:26 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post let him PastorJackson
Lord Chancellor wrote:
You boys shouldn't disagree with chainrattler. He will cry to Doyle.
ROFL
_________________
Are the things you are living for, worth Christ dying for?
http://www.jacksonplant.org/
http://jacksonplant.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/jackson.plant
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4750
2/23/13 3:31 am


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post chainrattler
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
Chained Rattler,

Is old-time Pentecostal "dancing in the Spirit" supportable by Scripture? Is the classic Pentecostal head jerk? Falling out under the power? What about running the aisles? Where precisely is that spelled out in Scripture?

By your own standard, these kinds of classical Pentecostal expressions or manifestations undermine the authority of Scripture.


You're right, they aren't. And in many cases they are the cause of honest people rejecting the Baptism in the Holy Spirit.

There are however, nine legitimate manifestations of the Spirit recorded in Scripture, that I have seen little of in the churches I have observed over the years, why is that?
Acts-celerater
Posts: 976
2/23/13 10:09 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post chainrattler
Lord Chancellor wrote:
There is one reason and one reason only why ignorant people who never attended the Brownsville revival are cynical of the revival and talk it about it being fleshly and "not of God," and whatever other ridiculous garbage they can mutter:

Jealousy.

It didn't happen at their churches, thus it wasn't of God.

Those are the kinds of the people who a.) wouldn't know a move of God if it bit them and b.) God wouldn't use due to their pride and arrogance and mumbling, anyway.

The bottom line is that the Brownsville Revival was an awesome, real, and genuine move of God led by great leaders and men of God (even if one of them does need a little help writing less-scholarly articles) and the cold, heart-of-stone haters are gonna hate, regardless.

Let 'em hate. They're neither important nor worth arguing with and their cynical and derogatory statements won't be true no matter how many ridiculous posts they make stomping their feet in protest.

God doesn't need their permission for anything.


Actually, the Person who will be the final judge of Brownsville will be God Himself.

I wasn't pastoring a church during the Brownsville incident so I had nothing to be jealous about. My only concern was people being deceived by Charismatic flakiness that was repackaged for Pentecostal consumption.

I know of several pastors whose churches were wrecked when people came back from Brownsville mimicking or inventing their own set of strange manifestations and claiming greater revelation and spirituality than the pastor. In cases like that, the pastor and sound doctrine often lost.

And for the record, I don't need Doyle's help in dealing with you or Pastor Jackson, you both show yourselves for what you are without any help from me or Doyle.
Acts-celerater
Posts: 976
2/23/13 10:25 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Quiet Wyatt
chainrattler wrote:
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
Chained Rattler,

Is old-time Pentecostal "dancing in the Spirit" supportable by Scripture? Is the classic Pentecostal head jerk? Falling out under the power? What about running the aisles? Where precisely is that spelled out in Scripture?

By your own standard, these kinds of classical Pentecostal expressions or manifestations undermine the authority of Scripture.


You're right, they aren't. And in many cases they are the cause of honest people rejecting the Baptism in the Holy Spirit.

There are however, nine legitimate manifestations of the Spirit recorded in Scripture, that I have seen little of in the churches I have observed over the years, why is that?

So do you claim classic Pentecostalism undermines the authority of Scripture by its acceptance of 'extrabiblical' manifestations?
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12784
2/23/13 11:49 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post chainrattler
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
chainrattler wrote:
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
Chained Rattler,

Is old-time Pentecostal "dancing in the Spirit" supportable by Scripture? Is the classic Pentecostal head jerk? Falling out under the power? What about running the aisles? Where precisely is that spelled out in Scripture?

By your own standard, these kinds of classical Pentecostal expressions or manifestations undermine the authority of Scripture.


You're right, they aren't. And in many cases they are the cause of honest people rejecting the Baptism in the Holy Spirit.

There are however, nine legitimate manifestations of the Spirit recorded in Scripture, that I have seen little of in the churches I have observed over the years, why is that?

So do you claim classic Pentecostalism undermines the authority of Scripture by its acceptance of 'extrabiblical' manifestations?


Possibly so.
Acts-celerater
Posts: 976
2/23/13 1:02 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post In response MS7777
This thread is devolving into a defense of the Brownsville Revival which certainly wasn't my intent initially however;

Chain's arguments are certainly nothing new, this was dealt with during the revival itself by far more learned people but whether or not some came back to their churches and created a mess surely is not the fault of those in Pensacola! Trying to replicate a sovereign move of God in another place can only lead to a bigger mess usually. But the people/pastors came home excited by what they had seen. They went there hungry for more of God and they met Him there. That some majored in the minors of manifestations is unfortunate. THey just wanted God to show up in their churches like He did in Brownsville.

I reject Chain's claim that manifestations are an anathema to the First Fundamental Truth of the Inerrancy of Scripture. As I said, on the Day of Pentecost new manifestations occurred that had never happened before and God still moves as He sees fit. Whether some got off in the flesh, well it happens thru exuberance and excitement. Doesn't means it ok but it doesn't mean the WHOLE REVIVAL is not of God. And, I was there multiple times and the manifestations were addressed by the leadership. But to only see the manifestations certainly misses the bigger picture of the hearts changed, bodies healed and lives saved from eternal hell itself.

My Goodness, if Jesus Himself showed up in your church tomorrow what would be the response? Would the flesh scream, shake, tremble faint? Who knows, who cares? Jesus is HERE! PTL!

As to the 9 Gifts in operation in the church today, come to my church tomorrow. Many of them will be in evidence and we don't have excessive displays of the flesh. On the other hand, I don't have millions of people lining up at my doors waiting to get in either. I'd like to have that problem but I don't. But I still want more of God, his Presence, His joy, His Peace, His Power, his Grace and His Gifts in our services and if some people exhibit some flesh in the process, I'll deal with it as I have always done.

In my estimation, most of the preachers I know are AFRAID of the Holy Spirit showing up in their church. They've never experienced Him themselves and are afraid He'd mess things up so they push Him out. They don't know how to correct excess without grieving the Spirit so they decide to have none of Him.

Brownsville wanted God. They prayed for 2 years for Him to show up and when He did they decided to have a place of habitation not just visitation. God had them and they were glad. You can look back and stand on the sidelines and criticize but with that attitude you'lll never have to worry about Him making His abode in your camp.

I intend to welcome Him at every opportunity. I don't want wildfire but I do want fire and if the fire starts to get wild then I guess I'll deal with that then. COME HOLY SPIRIT is the cry of my heart!

Blessings and may His anointing impact you so much all you can do is tremble and fall n His Presence because NO flesh can stand in His Presence. 2 Chron. 5:12-14 Oh wait, that doesn't mean what it says, I forgot my exegesis Laughing
_________________
Acts 1:8


Last edited by MS7777 on 2/23/13 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Acts-celerater
Posts: 727
2/23/13 1:23 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post For the record .. Rafael D Martinez
I was the first person in the thread to bring up Brownsville and did not do so to decry it but only to make a point .. in keeping with the original question of the original poster.

That point was and is that out of all of these so-called moves of God, none of them qualify as the beginning of the kind of massive, overwhelming, earth shaking "Move Of God" we like to think is an "end time revival." My point also observed that Scripture teaches end time APOSTACY and not revival and that to look to this kind of revivalism as the panacea for societal degeneracy isn't Biblical.

ALL of these movements came, manifested, then ended, morphed or sequed into something else. Lakeland is probably the last "End Time Revival" meme we've seen which did indeed turn into Something Else, alright ..

The question of whether Brownsville was "of God" or not was not a question I raised. Pastor Jackson, however, chose to press this issue and become quite defensive about it - choosing apparently to view any question about Brownsville as fleshly opposition and LC as "jealousy."

It's always amazing how shrill defensiveness can get.

I've posted in the past here about how I knew nothing about Brownsville until attending the Conference on Spiritual Renewal in October, 1996 where Kilpatrick, Hill, Cooley and the Brownsville worship team came. A year ago, I posted this video and said then as well as to this day that it was one of the most incredible times of renewal I ever saw in my life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD5oR8Sq2Qw

I went to Brownsville in 2001 finally, with Dr. Redding and others, after a conference at the Pace A/G where legitimate, alarming concerns about the nature of "revivalism" were raised and discussed. Jewel Van Der Merwe's discernment ministry has the video and audio taped then that are worth every dime of purchase. We went to a night service as the altar time was winding down and managed to squeeze into a pew that had obviously been used. Great things were going on in the ministry going on around us which I could have gotten into, but I respected the prayer worker boundaries and did not seek to be involved.

Be that as it may, things were going on at the same time that to me clearly indicate a lot of sloppy agape and plain old spiritual kingdom building was sadly going to bring it to an end.

Do I believe in revival? Did I not post this 6 months or so ago?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxQvVP59oGo

I was involved in that revival from start to finish. It was of God. As one of several altar workers, I saw the glory of God as well as the fleshly hand of religious people there. If that's the "messy" side of things, so be it. We handled them as best as we could. But the revival had to end at some point and the story about that is best left for another day.

But NONE OF THESE ARE PART OF THE "END TIME REVIVAL" too many preachers and Christians think is coming. IT. IS. NOT.
_________________
www.spiritwatch.org

Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Galatians 4:16

These are trying times. Everyone's trying something and getting caught. The Church Lady, 1987


Last edited by Rafael D Martinez on 2/23/13 1:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7766
2/23/13 1:23 pm


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post Re: Hey, Chain, Rafael D Martinez
MS7777 wrote:
yThere were even web sites set up, such as Contemporary Pentecostal Issues, in the late 1990s to address these doctrinal errors.


The thing is, MS, they didn't just address the doctrine - they touched upon the practical excess that the doctrinal error could produce.

The CPI website was incredible. But the old CPI EDG, where Link and I first met, was awesome. And then suddenly, both vanished.

Did you ever visit that site or were you on the EDG, MS? Small world! When it closed, I invited Link here and he's been here ever since.
_________________
www.spiritwatch.org

Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Galatians 4:16

These are trying times. Everyone's trying something and getting caught. The Church Lady, 1987
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7766
2/23/13 1:37 pm


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post Ichthus77
Seems to me you can read about a lot of "extra-biblical" manifestations
Occurring under the ministries of Wesley, Whitfield, Finney

And in such revivals as:

Azusa street
Cane Ridge revival
Welsh revival
_________________

Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1270
2/23/13 2:12 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Raf MS7777
I visited the site a few times but was never a poster. We had something similar in the AG as well but that forum closed as wel. The AG used to have a scholarly quarterly called Paraclete that addressed all these issues and much more but it stopped publishing at the end of 95. If you're at all interested in some serious scholarly (read big words for no apparent reason other than to to sound eloquent Smile ) dissertation go to this link and you can order paraclete's issues from 1967-1995 on cd http://www.ifphc.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=products.Academic.

Believe me, I am more than well aware of all that was said, researched and written about Brownsville, Toronto, KC (prophets), & Smithton. My complaint has always been, we seem to get down too deep in the weeds and miss the bigger picture. i certainly want to be doctrinally correct and try to be and do proper exegesis but can we ever acknowledge a move of God is in our midst albeit sloopy agape as you said? This was the same response as in 1906 to Azusa which we now point to as our beginning point. You don't thiink Parham didn't have critics do you?

I respect your points and your sincerity to be a defender of the faith as am I. I just am tired of defending Pentecost to supposed Pentecostals.

I also can agree with your comment regarding end-time apostasy. Probably true, great falling away and all of that. Which is why I started the tread in the first place. But, I'm not leaving here without at least trying to have revival. If cynics and critics want to decry it as emotionalism and flesh, well that's the way it always has been. COme Holy Spirit, More, Lord. Mucho MAS! El Senor!
_________________
Acts 1:8
Acts-celerater
Posts: 727
2/23/13 2:19 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post chainrattler
MS7777, if someone offered you a drink of water from a well that was only 2% poisoned, would you accept it? Would you drink the water eagerly and ignore the 2%?

That's what it sounds like you're saying here when you say critics are getting too deep in the weeds. We're fussing over a mere 2% poison in the water.

Here is the reason we get so deep in the weeds, MS:

7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

This is why we don't tolerate the 2% poison in the water, because
God has called us to purity - clear, clean, living water of the Holy Spirit that is unmixed with the flesh and the world.
Acts-celerater
Posts: 976
2/23/13 2:51 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post PastorJackson
I am not perfect never claimed to be but you need to pull that giant log out of your eyes before you need to worry about me. I am sick of people attacking moves of God from ivory towers judging yet never getting their hands the least dirty. If you discuss with me with respect I do the same, however when you talk down and make your accusations I will give it back to you.
You comment on the type of person I am, well I will make a deal from this point on, we put this behind us a clean slate. I ask you to forgive my exuberance and possibly reacting or overreacting and I will do the same. I expect you will since even with our disagreements we probably have more that we agree on. I can see that you truly are concerned and perhaps together we can answer your questions.
chainrattler wrote:
Lord Chancellor wrote:
There is one reason and one reason only why ignorant people who never attended the Brownsville revival are cynical of the revival and talk it about it being fleshly and "not of God," and whatever other ridiculous garbage they can mutter:

Jealousy.

It didn't happen at their churches, thus it wasn't of God.

Those are the kinds of the people who a.) wouldn't know a move of God if it bit them and b.) God wouldn't use due to their pride and arrogance and mumbling, anyway.

The bottom line is that the Brownsville Revival was an awesome, real, and genuine move of God led by great leaders and men of God (even if one of them does need a little help writing less-scholarly articles) and the cold, heart-of-stone haters are gonna hate, regardless.

Let 'em hate. They're neither important nor worth arguing with and their cynical and derogatory statements won't be true no matter how many ridiculous posts they make stomping their feet in protest.

God doesn't need their permission for anything.


Actually, the Person who will be the final judge of Brownsville will be God Himself.

I wasn't pastoring a church during the Brownsville incident so I had nothing to be jealous about. My only concern was people being deceived by Charismatic flakiness that was repackaged for Pentecostal consumption.

I know of several pastors whose churches were wrecked when people came back from Brownsville mimicking or inventing their own set of strange manifestations and claiming greater revelation and spirituality than the pastor. In cases like that, the pastor and sound doctrine often lost.

And for the record, I don't need Doyle's help in dealing with you or Pastor Jackson, you both show yourselves for what you are without any help from me or Doyle.

_________________
Are the things you are living for, worth Christ dying for?
http://www.jacksonplant.org/
http://jacksonplant.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/jackson.plant
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4750
2/23/13 3:20 pm


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post Re: For the record .. PastorJackson
"Pastor Jackson, however, chose to press this issue and become quite defensive about it - choosing apparently to view any question about Brownsville as fleshly opposition and LC as "jealousy." Raf no I did not chose to press it I responded to an unfair and untrue posting and I rebuffed it, I got defensive when he got personal. And I agree with LC it seems that alot of the issues people have is that it did not happen here so it cant be of God. I really dont know why you want to be confrontational with me, you have in the past ridiculed me, disrespected me and just plain mean bully tactics. You are a man of God and this is not a good trait. To be fair on this thread you are not that way but that is something that has ate at me for a while and I needed to put it to rest. I am trying to keep my tactics according to Christlike, please let me know when I fall short but I am NOT your enemy and you are not MINE. God bless.
Rafael D Martinez wrote:
I was the first person in the thread to bring up Brownsville and did not do so to decry it but only to make a point .. in keeping with the original question of the original poster.

That point was and is that out of all of these so-called moves of God, none of them qualify as the beginning of the kind of massive, overwhelming, earth shaking "Move Of God" we like to think is an "end time revival." My point also observed that Scripture teaches end time APOSTACY and not revival and that to look to this kind of revivalism as the panacea for societal degeneracy isn't Biblical.

ALL of these movements came, manifested, then ended, morphed or sequed into something else. Lakeland is probably the last "End Time Revival" meme we've seen which did indeed turn into Something Else, alright ..

The question of whether Brownsville was "of God" or not was not a question I raised. Pastor Jackson, however, chose to press this issue and become quite defensive about it - choosing apparently to view any question about Brownsville as fleshly opposition and LC as "jealousy."

It's always amazing how shrill defensiveness can get.

I've posted in the past here about how I knew nothing about Brownsville until attending the Conference on Spiritual Renewal in October, 1996 where Kilpatrick, Hill, Cooley and the Brownsville worship team came. A year ago, I posted this video and said then as well as to this day that it was one of the most incredible times of renewal I ever saw in my life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD5oR8Sq2Qw

I went to Brownsville in 2001 finally, with Dr. Redding and others, after a conference at the Pace A/G where legitimate, alarming concerns about the nature of "revivalism" were raised and discussed. Jewel Van Der Merwe's discernment ministry has the video and audio taped then that are worth every dime of purchase. We went to a night service as the altar time was winding down and managed to squeeze into a pew that had obviously been used. Great things were going on in the ministry going on around us which I could have gotten into, but I respected the prayer worker boundaries and did not seek to be involved.

Be that as it may, things were going on at the same time that to me clearly indicate a lot of sloppy agape and plain old spiritual kingdom building was sadly going to bring it to an end.

Do I believe in revival? Did I not post this 6 months or so ago?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxQvVP59oGo

I was involved in that revival from start to finish. It was of God. As one of several altar workers, I saw the glory of God as well as the fleshly hand of religious people there. If that's the "messy" side of things, so be it. We handled them as best as we could. But the revival had to end at some point and the story about that is best left for another day.

But NONE OF THESE ARE PART OF THE "END TIME REVIVAL" too many preachers and Christians think is coming. IT. IS. NOT.

_________________
Are the things you are living for, worth Christ dying for?
http://www.jacksonplant.org/
http://jacksonplant.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/jackson.plant
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4750
2/23/13 3:37 pm


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post Chain MS7777
While I respect your desire for purity and I for one want it as well. I reject your notion that the well was poisoned. Manifestations were NOT what the Revival was about and frankly during all the times I was there i NEVER saw or heard anything that was out of order. I'm no novice, I've been in this for more than 40 years and I've heard stuff that would make your milk curdle. Never saw that at Brownsville. For all the criticisms, outside of everyone falling and a few shaking I never saw anything to be disturbed over. Maybe I missed it. You know, one of the 9 Gifts you purportedly hold to is the Gift of Discerning of Spirits. As a teacher on this subject who has written extensively and studied these Gifts including this one, I can tell you those who operate in that Gift (I do) discerned there was 2 Spirits out of three working there. There are 3 Spirits at work in the world today: The Holy Spirit, Demonic Spirit & the Human Spirit. I discerned the Holy Spirit and the Human Spirit at work in Brownsville. No demonic Spirit could operate in that place. Witches and warlocks tried, often, to no avail. So I submit to you and I know you won't believe me but here it goes anyway, the well was NOT poisoned!

You my friend are a heretic hunter which is a worthy vocation. It's a dirty job but I guess someone has to do it. But you're looking in the wrong place. The leadership at Brownsville was under submission to their leaders who were allowed to sow into them and correct them and did so whenever it was necessary. But sometimes, the leadership came back and apologized too. Just sayin...
_________________
Acts 1:8
Acts-celerater
Posts: 727
2/23/13 4:42 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: For the record .. Rafael D Martinez
PastorJackson wrote:
I really dont know why you want to be confrontational with me, you have in the past ridiculed me, disrespected me and just plain mean bully tactics. You are a man of God and this is not a good trait. To be fair on this thread you are not that way but that is something that has ate at me for a while and I needed to put it to rest. I am trying to keep my tactics according to Christlike, please let me know when I fall short but I am NOT your enemy and you are not MINE. God bless.


You, Pastor, are pretty touchy. I think that is what I've seen of whatever contentions you have chosen to make with me.

You equate disagreement with insult, and opposing viewpoints as disrespectful. That's indicative of a black and white worldview. I'm either for you or against you. If I don't think like you, I can't possibly have a good opinion at all.

That's not my personal problem, Pastor. That's my observation.

Now before you detonate on me again, I don't consider you or anyone else here I have these run ins with as enemies I despise and hate. I just think you have a problem with knowing how to see disagreement as what it is .. not damnation. Godspeed to you in your new ministry endeavors.
_________________
www.spiritwatch.org

Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Galatians 4:16

These are trying times. Everyone's trying something and getting caught. The Church Lady, 1987
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7766
2/23/13 5:05 pm


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Actscelerate.com Forum Index -> Feature Presentations This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 4 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Acts-celerate Terms of Use | Acts-celerate Policy
Contact the Administrator.


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group :: Spelling by SpellingCow.