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Disappointed by the liberal slant of SOME COG Professors
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Post PastorJackson
Thanks Eddie I will thanks for the email.
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Quote:
I am curious of what I have heard recently is true, that there not teaching baptism of the Holy Spirit due to being too controversial now. Can someone who is there or recently let me know. Thanks.


If you have to question whether or not someone has lied to you, you must not hold much stock in what they say and who they are.

Are you saying that teaching the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is too controversial to be taught at Lee University? Send an e-mail to Dr Conn and ask him. pconn@leeuniversity.edu That way, you can depend on the answer rather than somebody with a pen name here telling you.

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12/18/12 6:41 pm


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Post Travis Johnson
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Quote:
I am curious of what I have heard recently is true, that there not teaching baptism of the Holy Spirit due to being too controversial now. Can someone who is there or recently let me know. Thanks.


If you have to question whether or not someone has lied to you, you must not hold much stock in what they say and who they are.


OH yeah, that was another one. Who is the unnamed person who told you that there is no teaching on the baptism of the Holy Spirit due to it being too controversial now?

I find that especially challenging to believe since Dr. Rickie Moore is that Chair of the Department of Theology at Lee.

Pastor Jackson, do you know Dr. Moore?
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12/18/12 6:48 pm


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Post Re: That Is How It Is! PastorJackson
Travis, 1.I can name them by the attitude and stance,
2. Same as the first,
3. I don't know and I don't think its important who he is.
My issues really is not the political issues but the scriptural ones. A persons political stance is not relivent to being a teacher in my opinion. It when they teach contrary to the word of God because their some how enlightened more than the perceived uneducated ones of us who believe the bible is correct. And they teach their students to take that view with them.
I have met several like that in the ministry, those are the ones I am referring to.
Travis Johnson wrote:
PastorJackson wrote:
Oh all you need to do is look on this site or go to Orlando every two years to see the ones that Ronald is talking about.


I'd try to give an educated answer. But, I don't know:

- who you think I should look for on this site.
- who I should see every two years in Orlando.
- and who Ronald is.

The problem seems to be to me that there is another challenging issue present in this discussion than just theological liberalism vs. theological conservatism and governmental liberalism vs. governmental conservatism (and the confusing of the two throughout this thread).

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12/18/12 6:52 pm


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Post PastorJackson
Travis its no ones business who told me, cept to say it was someone who graduated recently from the PTS who I started a church plant with and I trust him. I am not accusing I asked a sincere question yet you automatically jump down my throat and I find that insulting. I really don't care if you believe it I just wanted to know. Sorry I asked a question about the sacred mysteries of that revered place.
Travis Johnson wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Quote:
I am curious of what I have heard recently is true, that there not teaching baptism of the Holy Spirit due to being too controversial now. Can someone who is there or recently let me know. Thanks.


If you have to question whether or not someone has lied to you, you must not hold much stock in what they say and who they are.


OH yeah, that was another one. Who is the unnamed person who told you that there is no teaching on the baptism of the Holy Spirit due to it being too controversial now?

I find that especially challenging to believe since Dr. Rickie Moore is that Chair of the Department of Theology at Lee.

Pastor Jackson, do you know Dr. Moore?

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12/18/12 6:55 pm


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Post Re: That Is How It Is! Travis Johnson
PastorJackson wrote:
1.I can name them by the attitude and stance,


Name names or stop the veiled aspersions against wide swaths of unamed brothers and sisters in Christ. We've been through this in the COG and on this board before. There was too much bloodletting and unChristlike behavior. We aren't going there again quietly. This bullying behavior has no place in a body of holiness, Spirit empowered Christ followers.

Name the names or holster the gossip and untruths.


Quote:
2. Same as the first,


Quote:
3. I don't know and I don't think its important who he is.


What's important is that you have teamed up with an unnamed person to slander wide swaths of unnamed ministers of the Gospel, casting aspersions over all kinds of good people. Brothers and sisters in Christ do not engage in this activity and honor Christ. This is not honorable.


Do you know Dr. Moore?
Do you know what kind of independent Gospel integrity he has?
Have you spoken to him?
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12/18/12 7:01 pm


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Post Eddie Robbins
From PTS? I thought you were referring to Lee?

Quote:
It when they teach contrary to the word of God because their some how enlightened more than the perceived uneducated ones of us who believe the bible is correct.


Who is "they?" Name them. There is too much sweeping accusations with no name to attach it to so that it can't be checked out. That way, it is always left to "they said." Or, "I heard" somebody say. Name them.
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12/18/12 7:03 pm


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Post Re: That Is How It Is! PastorJackson
Excuse me I am not slandering anyone! You are slandering me! Name one name I mentioned! Telling what people do is not slander! Your the one that did the bullying not I, I have never done that and I will not let you get away with it to me! I did not team with any one I said AMEN to his statement, you attack me and I did NOTHING wrong! I asked a question about something!
Why should I give you his name so you can go and tell the leaders in the school or Cleveland and get them in trouble? That is the reason we use false names is it not?
While I am at it I was attacked by that unChristlike attitude on here about women bishops yet I do not remember you nor any of the high and mighty leaders on here coming to my aid, however I say something about your precious school and all hell brakes loose? Ok for all who see things on here from now on don't dare question Lee! Oh and "Do you know Dr. Moore?" YES I met him when I went to Cleveland on a visit.
"Do you know what kind of independent Gospel integrity he has?" No and I NEVER questioned HIM
"Have you spoken to him?" Yes when I met him.

"Name names or stop the veiled aspersions against wide swaths of unamed brothers and sisters in Christ. We've been through this in the COG and on this board before. There was too much bloodletting and unChristlike behavior. We aren't going there again quietly. This bullying behavior has no place in a body of holiness, Spirit empowered Christ followers."
Yet you think by personally attacking me, bullying me I will listen to you?



Travis Johnson wrote:
PastorJackson wrote:
1.I can name them by the attitude and stance,


Name names or stop the veiled aspersions against wide swaths of unamed brothers and sisters in Christ. We've been through this in the COG and on this board before. There was too much bloodletting and unChristlike behavior. We aren't going there again quietly. This bullying behavior has no place in a body of holiness, Spirit empowered Christ followers.

Name the names or holster the gossip and untruths.


Quote:
2. Same as the first,


Quote:
3. I don't know and I don't think its important who he is.


What's important is that you have teamed up with an unnamed person to slander wide swaths of unnamed ministers of the Gospel, casting aspersions over all kinds of good people. Brothers and sisters in Christ do not engage in this activity and honor Christ. This is not honorable.


Do you know Dr. Moore?
Do you know what kind of independent Gospel integrity he has?
Have you spoken to him?

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Last edited by PastorJackson on 12/18/12 7:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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12/18/12 7:20 pm


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Post PastorJackson
Really? Tell me why was this set up using false names? Do you really think I will put my friends in jeopardy just because you want some names? I will not! And I was referring to PTS sorry for not being more clear on that.
Eddie Robbins wrote:
From PTS? I thought you were referring to Lee?

Quote:
It when they teach contrary to the word of God because their some how enlightened more than the perceived uneducated ones of us who believe the bible is correct.


Who is "they?" Name them. There is too much sweeping accusations with no name to attach it to so that it can't be checked out. That way, it is always left to "they said." Or, "I heard" somebody say. Name them.

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12/18/12 7:24 pm


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Post Eddie Robbins
When you talk about Lee, you are talking about family. If someone says "they say...." with nothing to back it up, it is throwing rumors around that people read and some will believe it. If I came on here and said what I heard about your wife, you'd be ticked. Lee is my family and I feel the same way about it. Is it perfect? Nope. Neither are you and me. We are all a work in progress.

Quote:
Tell me why was this set up using false names?


Not to tell rumors. You asked for a verification of what you heard. That is still a rumor.
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12/18/12 7:26 pm


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Post PastorJackson
Ok I did not realize people felt so strongly about it. Sorry if it offended, however what I said it truth and I will call and see if it is being taught. However I don't appreciate the attitude I was launched into with by Travis. Very rude. Thanks Eddie for clueing me in.
Eddie Robbins wrote:
When you talk about Lee, you are talking about family. If someone says "they say...." with nothing to back it up, it is throwing rumors around that people read and some will believe it. If I came on here and said what I heard about your wife, you'd be ticked. Lee is my family and I feel the same way about it. Is it perfect? Nope. Neither are you and me. We are all a work in progress.

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12/18/12 7:30 pm


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Post Apology PastorJackson
To all on here who was insulted by a perceived insult on Lee, it was not intended to be that. I agreed with a statement about the path the COG appears to be heading down and I asked a simple question and I was set upon, Eddie was gracious enough to inform me that people take that personally so I apologize and no insult on the school intended.
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12/18/12 7:42 pm


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Post Travis Johnson
PastorJackson wrote:
Ok I did not realize people felt so strongly about it. Sorry if it offended, however what I said it truth and I will call and see if it is being taught. However I don't appreciate the attitude I was launched into with by Travis. Very rude. Thanks Eddie for clueing me in.
Eddie Robbins wrote:
When you talk about Lee, you are talking about family. If someone says "they say...." with nothing to back it up, it is throwing rumors around that people read and some will believe it. If I came on here and said what I heard about your wife, you'd be ticked. Lee is my family and I feel the same way about it. Is it perfect? Nope. Neither are you and me. We are all a work in progress.


Eddie is right about Lee. Lee is a glue. It's family. I've got multiple generations of family on multiple sides of family that went to Lee...and many of us at PTS. We've got years invested and believe not only in the institution but the people who make it what it is.

So, when you fail to name names in unsubstantiated, unverifiable negative comments, you cast aspersion on an entire family, our family...including you. The same goes for the COG. The same goes for Actscelerate. The same goes for you. These are special places made up of God's people.

If someone has a beef with the COG, name the people, the individuals. Otherwise, it's just unaccountable and unverifiable trash talk. If individuals are making Lee or PTS are place that isn't what it should be, name those people so we can have a better place or so you words can be judged by reality.

I've made no personal attack on you. I haven't demeaned your person. I hit squarely on your action. Your action was unfair and not right.

You're a good brother. But, you're missing it on this. We can disagree on the opinion or point of view. But, we shouldn't stoop to passing along unsubstantiated, and unverifiable overgeneralizations. And, like Eddie said, when you take cheap shots at family like that, of course, you'll get a response from other family members.
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12/18/12 7:45 pm


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Post Eddie Robbins
I don't mind true criticism of Lee and folks can say whatever they want here as long as Doyle allows it. My deal is that when a poster says "they say.." or "I have heard...." because that is rumor. You can't defend that. BTW, Lee is not my family just because my brother-in-law is the Prez. I feel that way anyway and will when he's gone. Acts-pert Poster
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12/18/12 7:47 pm


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Post PastorJackson
I did not take a cheap shot, I stated what I am seeing happening, I have been in services where it was brought up by my former Pastor who had just graduated from the PTS that they quit teaching the speaking in tongues as being divisive. If not true that great but if it is then there is a huge problem. The Assembly's have done that for years now to hear the COG is distressing. If you know anyone that can debunk this please let me know. Thanks and when you said I am bullying people is a smear though you might not have meant it as one since I have never as far as I remember had a issue with you before. God bless and Merry Christmas.
Travis Johnson wrote:
PastorJackson wrote:
Ok I did not realize people felt so strongly about it. Sorry if it offended, however what I said it truth and I will call and see if it is being taught. However I don't appreciate the attitude I was launched into with by Travis. Very rude. Thanks Eddie for clueing me in.
Eddie Robbins wrote:
When you talk about Lee, you are talking about family. If someone says "they say...." with nothing to back it up, it is throwing rumors around that people read and some will believe it. If I came on here and said what I heard about your wife, you'd be ticked. Lee is my family and I feel the same way about it. Is it perfect? Nope. Neither are you and me. We are all a work in progress.


Eddie is right about Lee. Lee is a glue. It's family. I've got multiple generations of family on multiple sides of family that went to Lee...and many of us at PTS. We've got years invested and believe not only in the institution but the people who make it what it is.

So, when you fail to name names in unsubstantiated, unverifiable negative comments, you cast aspersion on an entire family, our family...including you. The same goes for the COG. The same goes for Actscelerate. The same goes for you. These are special places made up of God's people.

If someone has a beef with the COG, name the people, the individuals. Otherwise, it's just unaccountable and unverifiable trash talk. If individuals are making Lee or PTS are place that isn't what it should be, name those people so we can have a better place or so you words can be judged by reality.

I've made no personal attack on you. I haven't demeaned your person. I hit squarely on your action. Your action was unfair and not right.

You're a good brother. But, you're missing it on this. We can disagree on the opinion or point of view. But, we shouldn't stoop to passing along unsubstantiated, and unverifiable overgeneralizations. And, like Eddie said, when you take cheap shots at family like that, of course, you'll get a response from other family members.

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12/18/12 8:06 pm


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Post Travis Johnson
PastorJackson wrote:
I did not take a cheap shot, I stated what I am seeing happening, I have been in services where it was brought up by my former Pastor who had just graduated from the PTS that they quit teaching the speaking in tongues as being divisive. If not true that great but if it is then there is a huge problem. The Assembly's have done that for years now to hear the COG is distressing. If you know anyone that can debunk this please let me know. Thanks and when you said I am bullying people is a smear though you might not have meant it as one since I have never as far as I remember had a issue with you before. God bless and Merry Christmas.


We've never had words. I certainly do no think you an enemy.

I did say you were bullying. Brother, you were. It didn't seem typical. I did not say you are a bully. I don't think you are.

Now, your former pastor _______ said that PENTECOSTAL Theological Seminary (which is led by Steve Land) is no longer teaching speaking in tongues because it's divisive?


Is this all professors?

Is this some professors?

Now, it would seem you aren't even generalizing. It seems you are being specific that this is what is happening at PTS institutionally.

If you say that, you ought to be able to back it up. Instead, you're upset at me for saying, "hey wait a second! Explain that!"

Brother, that needs some fleshing out. Who is teaching that at the PENTECOSTAL Theological Seminary?
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12/18/12 8:24 pm


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Post SouthernBerean
Pastor Jackson wrote:

Quote:
I have been in services where it was brought up by my former Pastor who had just graduated from the PTS that they quit teaching the speaking in tongues as being divisive. If not true that great but if it is then there is a huge problem. The Assembly's have done that for years now to hear the COG is distressing.


If you are talking about the AOG, you are talking about my family and you are wrong!
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12/18/12 8:24 pm


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Post No Dog in this one here, but... burned out
Is it just me, or does anyone else look at this dialogue and think of StringBender defending unions?

Yes it is good to give exact examples when speaking of someone specific; however, I am not sure that one can cast aspersions on someone without issuing a name.

When speaking of an entity I would think that generalizations would be easy to defend with specific details. Instead of giving what should be easy proof that these generalization are untrue, you guys attack those that are making statements/asking questions.

If you speak against the local assembly where I worship, it would not bother me at all. 1) I know the truth about our assembly 2) I can easily dismiss false accusations with factual information. But to get upset and complain about the people asking questions/making false statements, well that would reek of a weak defense...probably making someone listening more prone to believe that there is a problem.
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12/18/12 9:01 pm


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Post philunderwood
I believe that none of you know anything about the faculty at the School of Religion. What do you know about Hoskins, Diehl, Huddleston, Kerr, Jackson, Daugherty or McMillan? Have you sat in their classes? Have you read their papers? Have you taken them to lunch?

These professors and instructors have never offended you, spoken ill if you, undermined your teaching. Not one of them is your enemy?

Huh? What? Oh, we're talking about another school in Tennessee? Then, nevermind.

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12/18/12 10:10 pm


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Major B. Trammell wrote:
You don't have to be a Republican to be a Christian.

However, a person who votes for Democrats, or more specifically, for DNC candidates is not a Christian; he is not a follower of Jesus Christ- whether that person is a Lee U professor, a professor at a seminary, or a denominational leader. It doesn't matter who they are or what position they hold.

A person who identifies himself or herself as a follower of Jesus Christ and who supports the Democratic party, and by necessity every single value of its platform including the murder of innocent children, by voting for DNC candidates is a hypocrite and has whored out his or her feigned Christian values in favor of politics and parties.

They're frauds.


What would you do if two local candidates were running for city council or dog catcher, or some low level position. Both were Democrats, and one was more in line with good family values than the other. You couldn't find out if either was pro-baby-murder and it was not an issue in the campaign because the position had nothing to do with the issue. Would you vote for the candidate you believed to be better?
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12/18/12 11:19 pm


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Does Lee follow the typical tenure system of other universities? If so, it can be really, really hard to get rid of a tenured professor.
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