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Disappointed by the liberal slant of SOME COG Professors
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Post Disappointed by the liberal slant of SOME COG Professors J David Smith
I have not taken the opportunity to post or visit Actscelerate in a couple of months. However, this seemed to be a good place to vent my frustration over the obvious and disturbing liberal slant of many of the professors who are teaching in our Church of God institutions.

I know many of these men and women, and will freely admit that they are brilliant teachers. I am making plans to begin post-graduate studies next year. I also have twins who are High School seniors this year. They are both considering Lee as their top choice. Both Lee and Seminary are incredible institutions in many ways.

Many of the Lee and Seminary professors are my facebook friends. As I read many of their statuses and endorsed links, I become increasingly amazed by how socially, politically and even doctrinally liberal that some of these folks are.

I am a product of both Patten and Lee. I believe that our seminary is one of the best in the country. I have deep roots in the Church of God as a third generation COG pastor. It is because of my love for each of these institutions, that I have great concern for their future, based upon what I see from some of our leading educators.

I don't have the solution, and I don't expect everyone to agree with me. However, I think it is negligent to ignore that his is a legitimate issue.
Rolling Eyes[/b]


Last edited by J David Smith on 12/18/12 3:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
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12/17/12 11:45 pm


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Post John Jett
Send them a complaint. Its not going to change unless they hear about it. I don't care enough to do it or I would. Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
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12/18/12 12:58 am


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Post Travis Johnson
I don't see how there isn't room in orthodox Christianity who don't believe in the 2nd amendment. I like guns. But, I don't see how this is an issue to part fellowship with good, Gospel faithful folks over. Acts-dicted
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12/18/12 1:00 am


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Post J David Smith
Travis Johnson wrote:
I don't see how there isn't room in orthodox Christianity who don't believe in the 2nd amendment. I like guns. But, I don't see how this is an issue to part fellowship with good, Gospel faithful folks over.


I did express my concern very frankly with both individuals just prior to posting here. Their responses were exactly what I expected. We have totally different philosophies. I am personally acquainted with both of the individuals whom I referenced, and do not question their Pentecostalism or Christianity. They are brilliant individuals. I did not mention their names here intentionally, because that is not the purpose of initiating this dialogue. I am not calling them out as individuals. I am calling out the increasingly liberal worldview that is becoming the norm rather than the exception among our Church of God educational institutions.

I understand critical thought, and realize that everyone is not going to have the same perspective on society as I do. However, I am convinced that the primary worldview being taught and promoted within our own schools leans heavily toward a politically and socially liberal view.

I am not just referring to guns. That subject just happens to be the hot topic currently. I am just of the opinion that we need a greater balance of instructors who do not parrot the views of MSNBC and moveon.org!

I am not a legalist. If I am concerned about this, some of our more conservative members would really trip if they knew some of the discussions that I have been involved in with a few of our leading educators.

Is their room for opposing thought? Yes However, that opposing worldview can not become the primary worldview of the educational institutions of a denomination that has, up to this time, had deep Wesleyan Holiness roots in our Biblical worldview.
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12/18/12 1:48 am


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Post Nature Boy Florida
I am not sure why every gun made should be available to every citizen. Or every bomb. Or every chemical weapon. Guess i am too liberal for some.
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12/18/12 5:43 am


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Post J Ryan Herrington
Travis Johnson wrote:
I don't see how there isn't room in orthodox Christianity who don't believe in the 2nd amendment. I like guns. But, I don't see how this is an issue to part fellowship with good, Gospel faithful folks over.


Agreed.

I wasn't aware one had to be a Republican Conservative or a Tea Party Patriot to be a Christian and ultimately influential in the COG.
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12/18/12 9:47 am


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Post J David Smith
J Ryan Herrington wrote:
Travis Johnson wrote:
I don't see how there isn't room in orthodox Christianity who don't believe in the 2nd amendment. I like guns. But, I don't see how this is an issue to part fellowship with good, Gospel faithful folks over.


Agreed.

I wasn't aware one had to be a Republican Conservative or a Tea Party Patriot to be a Christian and ultimately influential in the COG.


Can you please point me to where that statement was made in this thread?
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12/18/12 9:59 am


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Post J Ryan Herrington
J David Smith wrote:
J Ryan Herrington wrote:
Travis Johnson wrote:
I don't see how there isn't room in orthodox Christianity who don't believe in the 2nd amendment. I like guns. But, I don't see how this is an issue to part fellowship with good, Gospel faithful folks over.


Agreed.

I wasn't aware one had to be a Republican Conservative or a Tea Party Patriot to be a Christian and ultimately influential in the COG.


Can you please point me to where that statement was made in this thread?


Maybe I'm understanding you wrong, but if you're disturbed by our professors having liberal slants, then in some ways it could appear that you're suggesting they don't have a place in our schools. And obviously whoever teaches at our schools holds influence.

That's the way it came across to me. Sorry if I misunderstood your comment.


Last edited by J Ryan Herrington on 12/18/12 10:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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12/18/12 10:01 am


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Post skinnybishop
J Ryan Herrington wrote:
Travis Johnson wrote:
I don't see how there isn't room in orthodox Christianity who don't believe in the 2nd amendment. I like guns. But, I don't see how this is an issue to part fellowship with good, Gospel faithful folks over.


Agreed.

I wasn't aware one had to be a Republican Conservative or a Tea Party Patriot to be a Christian and ultimately influential in the COG.


Wow. I think you greatly misunderstood the intent of the OP.
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12/18/12 10:03 am


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Post fortheleastofthese
Can we clarify the difference between "liberal theology" and "liberal views on gun control"???

I wouldn't worry too much about the future of Lee and definitely not the Seminary (much more theologically conservative than Lee)...

I don't think having a professor voice an opinion on gun laws after a mass shooting is going to jeopardize the future of the institution.

One thing that really annoys me to no end is that by labeling folks "liberal" for having a view on guns puts that person in the same boat as pro-choice and pro-gay marriage based on the name "liberal"...Christian Americans should be able to have an opinion on gun laws independent from other social issues.

I'm pro-life and against gay marriage...But I don't like everyone having access to military weapons capable of mowing down dozens of children at once. Does that make me "liberal" now?


Last edited by fortheleastofthese on 12/18/12 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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12/18/12 10:12 am


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Post Darrell Garrett
I've not spoken to David at all, and I certainly don't want to put words in his mouth, but this liberal slant goes far deeper than gun control. One of these men and I have debated many times, going all the way back to my days at Lee in the 80's over the issue of socialism. He is very strong in his socialist view and pushes it in the classroom I was kicked out his class once for opposing him on it. Like David, I've spoken to some of these men directly but it is like talking to most liberal minded folks; you might as well be talking to a wall. It has troubled me for years that these guys are shaping the minds of our young ministers, and it shows. Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology
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12/18/12 10:13 am


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Post fortheleastofthese
Darrell Garrett wrote:
I've not spoken to David at all, and I certainly don't want to put words in his mouth, but this liberal slant goes far deeper than gun control. One of these men and I have debated many times, going all the way back to my days at Lee in the 80's over the issue of socialism. He is very strong in his socialist view and pushes it in the classroom I was kicked out his class once for opposing him on it. Like David, I've spoken to some of these men directly but it is like talking to most liberal minded folks; you might as well be talking to a wall. It has troubled me for years that these guys are shaping the minds of our young ministers, and it shows.


If that's the case, then perhaps there is cause for concern.
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12/18/12 10:16 am


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Post Travis Johnson
fortheleastofthese wrote:
Can we clarify the difference between "liberal theology" and "liberal views on gun control"???


That's a good point.

I'm about as conservative as you can be both politically and theologically.

But, there is plenty of room in orthodox Christianity for pacifists, environmentalists, people who advocate gun control, and big government entitlement folks.

It is terrible to advocate the right to terminate the life of an unborn child or to take my money via taxation to do so for others using the Scriptures as your basis.
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12/18/12 10:23 am


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Post wow Major muricewatsonsfriend
"However, a person who votes for Democrats, or more specifically, for DNC candidates is not a Christian; he is not a follower of Jesus Christ- whether that person is a Lee U professor, a professor at a seminary, or a denominational leader. It doesn't matter who they are or what position they hold.

[i]A person who identifies himself or herself as a follower of Jesus Christ and who supports the Democratic party[/i], and by necessity every single value of its platform including the murder of innocent children, by voting for DNC candidates is a hypocrite and has whored out his or her feigned Christian values in favor of politics and parties.

They're frauds."
and that's found where in the Bible? voting is NOT in the Bible - not one time, so how can you or anyone else speak with such clarity on a subject that the Bible is silent on?
- Darius
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12/18/12 10:39 am


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Post J David Smith
I want to try to say this again. I LOVE LEE AND PTS. I am a product of Lee University. I have two children who are seniors in high school. They are both considering Lee as their top choice for college. I plan to enroll in PTS next year. They are both great institutions. The purpose of my original post IS NOT to slam Lee, Seminary or to mention any names on here.

I have written a letter to both Paul Conn and Stephen Land that details my specific concerns. This forum is not the place to address specifics. My post here is intended to create dialogue about the increasing influence of socially and politically liberal educators within our institutions. It is negligent to stick our heads in the proverbial sand and pretend that it is not an issue!

Gun control just happens to be the hot topic right now. My post was not about gun control. It is about the increasing number politically and socially liberal educators within our Church of God institutions. It is much larger than the issue of gun control.

I am in favor of critical thought and diversity of opinion. However, it is ludicrous for us to support those who would teach within our Church of God institutions who do not hold strongly to a Biblical worldview.

My son is presently being recruited to play basketball at Emory. As I began to research that particular school, I was intrigued to discover that they also have deep Wesleyan roots. However, it is now considered as one of the most liberal universities in the country. This did not happen over night.

I have had discussions with every one of those whom I have concerns with. Too often, they are arrogantly defensive of their ideology and use the same MO of organizations such as MSNBC and moveon.org, to label anyone who disagrees with their view as "tea baggers", "Right wing extremists", and etc.

I love the Church of God, Lee University and PTS too much to ignore that we have an issue!
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12/18/12 11:20 am


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Post John Jett
Most people who are liberal in one area are liberal in all. Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
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12/18/12 11:22 am


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Post Quiet Wyatt
Anyone who has read many of the posts on Actscelerate for very long knows there are apparently more than a few politically liberal people in the CoG. Institutions of higher learning are generally going to have more liberals than your average local CoG. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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12/18/12 11:32 am


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Post bonnie knox
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
Anyone who has read many of the posts on Actscelerate for very long knows there are apparently more than a few politically liberal people in the CoG. Institutions of higher learning are generally going to have more liberals than your average local CoG.


In order to keep that cycle working, you have to have "proper" indoctrination at the institutes of higher learning so that "educated" people develop that liberal worldview.
I think that is the concern here.
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12/18/12 11:40 am


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Post Quiet Wyatt
I would say agreement with the fundamentals of evangelical Christianity would be something that would distinguish theologically evangelical believers from theological liberals. Over the years I have often been amazed at the political views of some who claim to be evangelical Christians. I don't think liberal theology or politics are limited to Wesleyans by any means. Theological liberalism historically has occurred in many Protestant denominations of various kinds whenever the authority of the Bible begins to be seriously questioned within their ranks, usually in the halls of academia first. The churches and colleges that were started by the Puritans and Calvinists in early American history basically were almost all theologically liberal by the mid 1800s, due largely to the influence of modern skepticism of the authority of the Bible. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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12/18/12 11:47 am


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Post Quiet Wyatt
I remember being quite surprised to hear a good friend of mine in Bible college say that from his fundamental Calvinistic Baptist background, anyone who believed in free will (basically Arminians) was liberal.

Prior to that I had always felt it was the Once Saved Always saved doctrine that was a liberal idea, the idea that God would never condemn anyone for any sin if they had repeated the sinner's prayer at least once.
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12/18/12 11:56 am


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