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 Pastor charged with "unbecoming conduct". |
Rayford Harrison |
I just heard the amazing story of a pastor who has been charged with “conduct unbecoming a minister” because he referred to our practice of tithe of tithes as a church tax. Evidently in a meeting of the church and pastor’s council the pastor made a remark about the huge “tax” the church is required to send to headquarters each month. There was an audio recording of the meeting that was subsequently either sent or taken to the State Overseer by a staff member that had just been dismissed.
The Overseer responded by notifying the pastor that he had been charged with unbecoming conduct. The Overseer has since informed the pastor that he has been censured for one year and that would go into his permanent record. He told the pastor that he must hold a church meeting to apologize and recant what he said about the tithes of tithes being a tax.
This is a new one on me. I am quite certain I have never heard of a pastor being charged with unbecoming conduct for somthing he said in a meeting. I have also never heard of a pastor being "censured". Not quite sure what that means. |
New Member
Posts: 18
10/12/12 2:55 pm
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Troy Hamby |
wow, didn't know that we added the Gestapo as a new department at the last assembly  |
Golf Cart Mafia Soldier
Posts: 2460
10/12/12 3:00 pm
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mytimewillcome |
| I'm sure our new brother "Rayford" knows the whole story and has relayed it as such. |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3661
10/12/12 3:05 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
Question: what state did this occur in & in what decade did this alleged event take place? If you live in that state then never mind the question because I don't want to violate any rules with the Acts policy. I know it's not California because I have heard guys call it a tax multiple times here.
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"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
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Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
10/12/12 3:25 pm
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| Cite the name and state |
roughridercog |
Bring it to the light and we can discuss the tax of tithes, I mean tithe of tithes.
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Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25306
10/12/12 3:56 pm
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| Cite the name and state |
roughridercog |
Bring it to the light and we can discuss the tax of tithes, I mean tithe of tithes.
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Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25306
10/12/12 3:56 pm
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| Not necessary to give the name or the state. |
Rayford Harrison |
I am quite sure the problem will be resolved with the pastor apologizing to his congregation and sending the tape to his Overseer.
Perhaps he should have called it a "franchise fee".
This is a recent event that has occurred in the last few days. I would expect the pastor to make a statement to his church this Sunday. This is a congreation of over 400 in attendance with a pastor who has a real heart for ministry. He is a loyal COG bishop that does not need to be treated in such a manner.
One would think it would have been better if his AB just called him and discussed the matter before charging him with unbecoming conduct. |
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Posts: 18
10/12/12 4:43 pm
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| It is not necessary to name the names... |
Rayford Harrison |
| It would only get the pastor in more trouble with his Overseer. It did happen and I am sure it will become public after it is settled. |
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Posts: 18
10/12/12 4:55 pm
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Eddie Robbins |
| If it is not 10%, it can't be called a tithe. What is wrong with calling it a tax? How about a fee? Why is this so sensitive? |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
10/12/12 5:02 pm
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| Re: It is not necessary to name the names... |
PastorJackson |
Name the Overseer this is unconscionable this violates his 1st amendment and makes a chilling effect with big brother . | Rayford Harrison wrote: | | It would only get the pastor in more trouble with his Overseer. It did happen and I am sure it will become public after it is settled. |
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Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4750
10/12/12 5:17 pm
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Eddie Robbins |
| 1st Amendment does not come into play here. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
10/12/12 5:21 pm
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| I will let the pastor tell it if he wants it told.. |
Rayford Harrison |
Major wrote:
| Quote: | Telling us which state this happened in will not get the pastor in "more trouble."
But, your refusal to tell us which state very obviously means that you don't want anybody attempting to verify your claim which means you have something to hide about it which also means that either the whole thing is a fabrication or else it didn't happen quite like you said it did. |
I really don't care whether you can verify my post or not. I have nothing to hide but I don't want to add further problems for this pastor who is a personal friend. If you don't think he could be in more trouble then you have never experienced the wrath of a ticked off overseer.
Just ask Doyle what happens when an official is out to get you. |
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10/12/12 5:27 pm
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| Re: It is not necessary to name the names... |
Mat |
| Rayford Harrison wrote: | | It would only get the pastor in more trouble with his Overseer. It did happen and I am sure it will become public after it is settled. |
If the facts are as you say, then the revealing the name of the pastor, as well as the state in which this occurred, will not add to the Pastor's "woes", but could lighten the judgment against him. After all, you are the one who put it on forum for all to read. If the facts are correct, whoever was at the business meeting already knows he called it a "tax". If there was a former staff member of the local church in the meeting (I would ask, "why would he be there in the first place?”) who was recording the meeting, the pastor was right to fire the guy because apparently he is a disloyal and self severing ________! The AB, whom ever he may be, knows all about it and felt right in making his discussion. So who are you protecting, maybe yourself?
Mat |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1979
10/12/12 5:35 pm
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| It is Texas |
Clyde Walker |
I am not sure about the name of the church but is one that is in the north of the state just above Dallas. I understand it is a church that got a new pastor a couple of years ago who came from a northern state. Since he arrived the church has boomed and either built or bought a new church building. I heard they have added several hundred people since this pastor arrived.
By the way, it sure seems like a tax to me. You have no choice about whether or not to pay it. If you don't pay you are punished. If you get behind the debt is unforgiveable and you cannot serve on any elected or appointed position.
Didn't a famous playwrite say something like, "A tax is a tax by any other name"? |
Friendly Face
Posts: 117
10/12/12 5:36 pm
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curly |
| Thank you Clyde. My daddy's name was Clyde. He was a great man. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1754
10/12/12 5:41 pm
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Dean Steenburgh |
The word 'tithe' of the tithe is not an intentional definition of the biblical tithe. I believe our fathers used the term as a way of understanding what was expected. They expected a 20% tithe of the local churches tithe to be sent in to HQ & State office & a 5% missions offering to be sent in & that part was to come from the general offering. I believe their intentions were to bring light to the understanding of what they expected & the fathers of our church at that time were successful.
Today's financial description in our church world would probably sound more like 'Ministry Support' or 'Denominational Fee'. They probably would not like to hear the word 'Tax' because it conjures up unpopular political jargon. We like to sound relevant when we coin terms but we don't like to sound arguable or insensitive. The AB sounds like he's a bit tightly wound & I don't think I would accept his pronouncement if the shoe were on my foot. In fact I would appeal his decree & I would fight to insure my file had no permanent record as described above. A church of 400 will usually stand behind their pastor before they take a position with an AB.
I wouldn't want to be in his position. I love the fact that our church is in the CoG. 
.
_________________
"Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!"
Email me at: SteenburghDean@gmail.com
Church planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!
What are you focused on? |
Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
Posts: 4682
10/12/12 5:50 pm
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PastorJackson |
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Eddie Robbins |
| Doesn't matter. "Tithe" means 10 percent. It doesn't mean whatever someone says it is. When you say "tithe," you are saying "tenth." |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16509
10/12/12 6:15 pm
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Bro Bob |
From the 2004 Minutes:
| Quote: |
Unbecoming ministerial conduct shall be defined as violations of personal integrity, of doctrinal fidelity as accepted by the church of God, and of leadership accountability. |
I would hold that calling it a tax is less accurate than calling it a franchise fee, but either one is more accurate than calling it a "tithe". Therefore this honesty is actually evidence of personal integrity.
There isn't a hint of doctrinal infidelity.
Finally, unless he is encouraging folks to give in a manner that avoids the franchise fee, his leadership accountability on this matter is not in play.
This pastor may be guilty of conduct unbecoming, but nothing said in this thread is evidence of that.
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Since he is not a layman, the AB cannot make this charge without holding a trial, and cannot censure him without one. (Laymen can and have been excommunicated without charge and without trial.)
There IS a demonstrable case to be made against an AB who does not confine himself to the authorities spelled out for him by the final governing authority in the Church of God: the General Assembly of its members.
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All that said, this pastor wouldn't be the first to pay the rest of his life for standing up and saying, "Brothers, this isn't right." |
Golf Cart Mafia Underboss
Posts: 3945
10/12/12 6:30 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
At one time tithe of tithe was accurate. Tithe to gen bq and a tithe to the state which is similar to the tithe referred to in malachi 3 imho.
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Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16619
10/12/12 7:24 pm
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