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I know when I was sanctified!
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JLarry wrote:

Scripture teaches me to "die daily".


Good point.
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8/9/12 5:40 pm


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Post still human concernedpk
Although I am saved, santified and filled witht he Holy Ghost, I am not dehumanized. I think that is where my progressive santification comes in. As holy as one may claim to be, the flesh can still do a lot of sinning if it is not crucified. May God help us all. Member
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8/9/12 6:43 pm


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Post roughridercog
Rafael D Martinez wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
What is the initial evidence of sanctification?



.. a clean heart that you KNOW is completely HIS, nothing held back

... a set of priorities completely centered upon Christ and His Kingdom

.... a rejection of anything that keeps your eyes off God

..... a love of God and all people whether they abide in Him or not

...... a conscious death to your self on the cross Jesus bids you to carry

....... a longing to loving and please God like nothing else in your life that flames up in genuine, ardorous passion

All of this is in the Practical Commitments.

The Spirit called me to live this out long before I even knew what those were. So when I finally I did, I knew I was on the right path ..

What do you think it is, Eddie?


A great explanation of sanctification, but doesn't it continue from that point on? In all honesty, do we sometimes use sanctification and regeneration synonymously?
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8/10/12 7:32 am


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Post Cojak
I have said it several times, my thinking changes and my eyes are opened to some truths here in SOME discussions. Things I never thought of. I know there are some wonderful Christians and Brothers/Sisters in the AOG and 4SQ (& others). They are NOT WRONG, are they?

I will not go back and check, but one AOG commenter said: "We believe that one can be immediately sanctified, but we consider that a miracle" (or something to that affect, and he was not being snide.)

I have known Holy people in my time, truly ones I felt did not sin. They were few, but I have known some.

Being a PK, I have witnessed COG preachers 'lose their religion' and nearly come to blows. I have witnessed them be very nasty to another brother. I have known some that appeared to lie. These guys could not have been completely 'Sanctified', the way they taught Sanctification.

What I am saying is in my mind Sanctification can appear to be a second work of Grace and IS, at times, but in the majority of cases it appears to be progressive or on a daily basis. I also believe that the COG has slowly accepted that fact without changing the written doctrine. Shocked
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8/10/12 9:53 am


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Post Not a debate but a testimony otium sanctum
I did not come to debate any of you. I know my experience. The origin of this post was someone said they did not know of anyone who knew when they were sanctified. I testified to my experience. I don't ask any of you to justify it. I just wanted the original poster to know that there was someone who did have that testimony. Accept it, deny it, it is still my testimony. I received it, I believe it and for me and me alone that settles it. I am sure that many on this blog will not accept it, you don't want to so it will not be possible to receive it because it is by faith and by grace. Thanks and God bless. Friendly Face
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8/10/12 10:14 am


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Post Re: Not a debate but a testimony Patrick Harris
otium sanctum wrote:
I did not come to debate any of you. I know my experience. The origin of this post was someone said they did not know of anyone who knew when they were sanctified. I testified to my experience. I don't ask any of you to justify it. I just wanted the original poster to know that there was someone who did have that testimony. Accept it, deny it, it is still my testimony. I received it, I believe it and for me and me alone that settles it. I am sure that many on this blog will not accept it, you don't want to so it will not be possible to receive it because it is by faith and by grace. Thanks and God bless.


I agree 100 % and am right there with you.

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8/10/12 10:29 am


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Post Got it when I got saved Ernie Long
Didn't know what it was called back then, just told people, "God saved me, cleaned me out and cleaned me up." To me, that's the beauty of a new born Christian, their not hung-up on all the details, positions, titles, and gossip in the church. The only thing they want to do is love, worship, and please the Lord. Acts Enthusiast
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8/10/12 11:35 am


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Post JLarry
Quote:

otium sanctum wrote:
I did not come to debate any of you. I know my experience. The origin of this post was someone said they did not know of anyone who knew when they were sanctified. I testified to my experience. I don't ask any of you to justify it. I just wanted the original poster to know that there was someone who did have that testimony. Accept it, deny it, it is still my testimony. I received it, I believe it and for me and me alone that settles it. I am sure that many on this blog will not accept it, you don't want to so it will not be possible to receive it because it is by faith and by grace. Thanks and God bless.


I agree 100 % and am right there with you.


Sorry friends, what you "experienced" cannot over ride the Scripture.

Show me Scripture where anyone is "Sanctified" at a particular time. I have no doubt you had a great experience and these are to be cherished. I have had several. But my understanding of the Scripture is that my "sanctification" is continual.
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8/10/12 11:56 am


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Post Bro Bob
Not attacking your testimony otium. At least I'm not.

But I did ask you for further enlightenment that you have so far ignored. So did the others who have your same testimony.

I want to know if this instantaneous sanctification was a one time thing? You have had that experience one time, right?
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8/10/12 12:30 pm


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Post Patrick Harris
JLarry wrote:
Quote:

otium sanctum wrote:
I did not come to debate any of you. I know my experience. The origin of this post was someone said they did not know of anyone who knew when they were sanctified. I testified to my experience. I don't ask any of you to justify it. I just wanted the original poster to know that there was someone who did have that testimony. Accept it, deny it, it is still my testimony. I received it, I believe it and for me and me alone that settles it. I am sure that many on this blog will not accept it, you don't want to so it will not be possible to receive it because it is by faith and by grace. Thanks and God bless.


I agree 100 % and am right there with you.


Sorry friends, what you "experienced" cannot over ride the Scripture.

Show me Scripture where anyone is "Sanctified" at a particular time. I have no doubt you had a great experience and these are to be cherished. I have had several. But my understanding of the Scripture is that my "sanctification" is continual.


OK...
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Post I know when too! (L) =D Poimen
IMHO ....

Many people are not aware they are sanctified, and able to consciously walk in the knowledge and truth without a "subsequent" "crisis" experience. They are conditioned to that by the "second work/instantaneous only" doctrine itself.

Many others deny sanctification is definite, assuming it must only be progressive and partial for the same reason, conditioning by the "progressive only work" doctrine.

The truth, as I understand it, is somewhere between the two. Sanctification is both definite and partial, both instantaneous and progressive, both a work of grace and a gracious enablement.

That said, I do not disagree with the substance of "entire sanctification" and what it actually meant by it. I only differ with the placement or timing, affirming it is part and parcel with the new birth. Purity of heart is definite and complete, a work of grace received upon faith in Christ. Thereby Experiential (as well as positional) sanctification is instantaneous and definite.

Nor do I disagree with the continuing nature and work of sanctification in the lives of believers. I admit it is progressive, but differ in what is meant by partial. One is not partially made holy in heart. One is not partially spiritually cleansed. Albeit, one does remain in the body and thereby susceptible to temptation and sin. One also remains finite and in need of growing in grace, perfecting holiness, and becoming more Christlike. Practical holiness is progressive and in direct correlation with spiritual maturity.

For me it is not an either/or proposition, but an both/and one. Sanctification is both definite and partial, instantaneous and progressive, positional and experiential, internal (spiritual) and external (practical).

I recently started a blog series on this very issue, which I titled "The Lost Pearl of Pentecost". You may enjoy it and the subsequent articles to come.
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8/10/12 1:53 pm


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Post Poimen
JLarry wrote:


Sorry friends, what you "experienced" cannot over ride the Scripture.


That's very true brother. The Bible is right, not us. Period.

Quote:
Show me Scripture where anyone is "Sanctified" at a particular time. I have no doubt you had a great experience and these are to be cherished. I have had several. But my understanding of the Scripture is that my "sanctification" is continual.


Part of the problem may be in how you are defining sanctification, or what aspects of it you are viewing. That said, I believe I can show you Scripture that plainly shows people were definitely sanctified. Albeit, I cannot show you any where such was obtained subsequent to conversion.

Would you care for me to present those with my thoughts?
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Post Not for debate otium sanctum
Again, I have testified. I will not debate you. Your attitude expresses why (JLarry). I have debated this subject many times over the years. No one has been convinced either way. So, if you truly wish to study the subject may I suggest the following:
Entire Sanctification by L.W. Sisk (this pamphelet was used by Dr. R. Hollis Gause in his Systematic Theology Class);
Wesley and Sanctification by Harold Lindstrom;
John Wesley: Holiness of Heart and Life by Charles Yrigoyen, Jr.;
Holiness God's Will for God's People by Philemon Roberts; and
Entire Sanctification: The Distinct Doctrine of Wesleyaniam by J. Kenneth Grider.
I believe the Word of God clearly teaches sanctification as a definite, distinct work of God's grace. Not only do I believe that is what the Word of God teaches, but by God's grace I have experienced this. I have no responsibility to you (Bro. Bob) to defend this doctrine when my stated purpose was not for doctrine but for testimony. Thank you and God bless.
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8/10/12 3:48 pm


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Post Re: Not for debate Cojak
otium sanctum wrote:
Again, I have testified. I will not debate you. Your attitude expresses why (JLarry). I have debated this subject many times over the years. No one has been convinced either way. So, if you truly wish to study the subject may I suggest the following:
Entire Sanctification by L.W. Sisk (this pamphelet was used by Dr. R. Hollis Gause in his Systematic Theology Class);
Wesley and Sanctification by Harold Lindstrom;
John Wesley: Holiness of Heart and Life by Charles Yrigoyen, Jr.;
Holiness God's Will for God's People by Philemon Roberts; and
Entire Sanctification: The Distinct Doctrine of Wesleyaniam by J. Kenneth Grider.
I believe the Word of God clearly teaches sanctification as a definite, distinct work of God's grace. Not only do I believe that is what the Word of God teaches, but by God's grace I have experienced this. I have no responsibility to you (Bro. Bob) to defend this doctrine when my stated purpose was not for doctrine but for testimony. Thank you and God bless.


Your position is easily understood from where I am looking, this comment by you, is a good answer.
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8/10/12 4:42 pm


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Post Bro Bob
I have not thoroughly studied / investigated the subject. I honestly don't recall the last time I heard it preached. My recent inquiry into AoG / CoG differences put it on my radar.

The Church of God does not declare your experience as valid and mine not, nor mine valid and yours not. This is what item 6 in the DoF says:
Quote:

6. In sanctification subsequent to the new birth, through faith in the blood of Christ; through the Word, and by the Holy Ghost.


It doesn't say it is instantaneous or progressive. It does say it comes after salvation. It does say it comes from being acquainted with the Word (John 17:17). It does say it is accomplished by the Holy Ghost.

I have zero Bible for being "slain in the spirit". Nothing. Not one bit. Nor do I have any Bible forbidding or denying it. But it is my testimony that I have experienced it. Truthfully, I can't see how it was meaningful or of any value at all to anyone but me. Just as truthfully, forced to choose, I would much rather have God direct me with his still small voice. MUCH more powerful to me.

I am intrigued by your testimony, and confused by your take it or leave it response to my inquiry. But I accept that my question is offending you, and will not ask it again.

...................

For anyone else who is interested, I have made a few observations in my own attempt to gain understanding.

1) Sanctification is a very common term in the OT. People were sanctified for specific things, and inanimate objects were sanctified also. In some cases, this was a process that had to be repeated every time the person or the object was to be used. Both were expected to become contaminated again, and need cleansing again.

2) I can't show you where Jesus was saved. I can't show you where he was filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke with other tongues. But he claimed to have been sanctified by the Father, and he also claimed to have sanctified himself. The only man who knew no sin was sanctified at least twice.

John 10:36
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

John 17:19
And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.


Now I am not sure yet what the relevance of that is. But there is something in it.
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8/10/12 4:59 pm


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Cojak wrote:

Being a PK, I have witnessed COG preachers 'lose their religion' and nearly come to blows. I have witnessed them be very nasty to another brother. I have known some that appeared to lie. These guys could not have been completely 'Sanctified', the way they taught Sanctification.


Some of the posts on this forum are good arguments against that idea, too. Smile

Quote:

What I am saying is in my mind Sanctification can appear to be a second work of Grace and IS, at times, but in the majority of cases it appears to be progressive or on a daily basis. I also believe that the COG has slowly accepted that fact without changing the written doctrine. Shocked


It sounds like the change in belief in instant sanctification to the belief in graduate, progressive sanctification has been progressive and graduate.

I would venture to guess the vast majority of Pentecostals do not believe in sanctification as an instant work of grace. My guess would be even most American Pentecostals aren't too familiar with the old-fashioned Holiness/PH/COG understanding of 'sanctification' and haven't heard much teaching on it. The denominations that teach it are fairly concentrated in the southeast. The denominations that grew large in the rest of the country didn't teach it, and the traditional Holiness Pentecostal denominations don't teach it as much as they used to. It's probably because it's so hard to try to make a case for it from scripture. I've seen attempts allegorically interpreting a passage about the laver in the Old Testament. Seymour at Azusa believed in being saved, sanctified, and filled with the Holy Ghost.

When I was in Indonesia, I don't think I ever heard anyone talking about being 'saved, sanctified, and filled with the Holy Ghost', at least not from a local preacher. I never heard a local GBI preacher say it, and I don't remember if the official GBI (COG's affiliate there) denomination's doctrinal statements say anything about it. If they do, I don't think it's commonly taught. Is GBI bigger than the US portion of the COG?
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8/10/12 5:49 pm


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Bro Bob,

Even the doctrinal statement is really hard to support. What Biblical reason is there to expect every believer to be sanctified AFTER salvation? Paul told his readers in I Corinthians 6 '...now ye are washed, now ye are sanctified, and now ye are justified....'

He doesn't say 'Some of you are sanctified, but not others.' He doesn't say 'Some of you are sanctified, but some of you need to get to the altar and get sanctified.'

The letter is written to,
Quote:

2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:

(NIV)

If we call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and are washed and justified, aren't we all also sanctified?

Is there anything in the Bible that talks about people being sanctified gradually over time? Is there any reference to believers being sanctified after salvation?

I grew up Pentecostal/'Full Gospel' but didn't encounter the idea of sanctification as a one-time, crisis-moment act of grace after salvation until I was about 12 and heard my Mom and Dad talking about family we hung out with who were from a PH background. It seemed alien to me, not having grown up in that end of the Pentecostal movement. The thing I never got is where the scripture for it is supposed to be. I can see believing in it if you grew up with it. You'd interpret your experiences around it, or it might motivate you to pray for something and have an experience as you seek God. I can see historically, how the belief developed from Wesley's teachings a little.
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Post Bro Bob
Link, my study on this is new and shallow. But I think the choice of the word must give a clue about its meaning.

I think of it as a purifying, a cleansing. I think salvation is certainly a purifying or sanctifying event. But just as those OT vessels would need to be purified again for proper use, I think every born again Christian must be also. Christ was without sin, but he lived in a world full of it. He went to a temple full of it. And as I have already shown, he obviously felt he had need of this purifying also.

I think prayer is sanctifying. I think fasting is sanctifying. I think reading scripture is sanctifying. I even think being rebuked by a brother, even if it is here on this web site and not fully justified, I think that is sanctifying.

I don't think of it as progressive, per se, I think of it as something you need repetitively in your spirit like your body needs a bath.

Before you ask, I do not have a scripture that says these things in proper King James English. But I do believe the idea I am trying to convey is found scattered all through scripture.

I am certainly willing to be shown any error I am making when my understanding is judged against the Word. And I am also willing to hear any other understanding that a brother may have.
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Post I know when I am sanctified JLarry
And I know when I am not.
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Post Listen to Gary Taylor's teaching on Sanctification .. Rafael D Martinez
http://spiritwatch.org/pentecostalpreaching.htm

under the "Sanctification" section .. and a variety of outstanding teachers and preachers (all who are mostly COG) who teach on it ..

Gary's sermon was the best one I've ever heard.
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