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Can Ladies Serve as Deacons?
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Post Quiet Wyatt
Like I said earlier, presuppositions generally always determine conclusions. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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3/9/12 8:58 pm


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Post Da Sheik
Major, that's actually another fallacy you're guilty of...an improper appeal to the law of excluded middle (a false either/or requirement when a complementarity might be acceptable). While it may be possible that a man might be married without children, it would be impossible for a woman to be "the husband of one wife". Well, under normal circumstances Wink Acts Enthusiast
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3/9/12 9:57 pm


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Post Da Sheik
In chapter 2 of I Timothy, Paul appeals to the order in Creation, thereby transcending culture. And yes, your position is polarizing and creates an unnecessary either/or distinction in regard to a deacon having children or not. The text presupposes that most married couples would indeed have children. This would not exclude the man with a barren wife. It only says that if he does have children, they should be in subjection. It does however raise a question as to whether a single man should serve in this capacity. I can certainly see why this might be a problem, though I'm not divisive about it. Acts Enthusiast
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3/9/12 10:14 pm


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Post Tracy S Hamilton
Da Sheik wrote:
In chapter 2 of I Timothy, Paul appeals to the order in Creation, thereby transcending culture. And yes, your position is polarizing and creates an unnecessary either/or distinction in regard to a deacon having children or not. The text presupposes that most married couples would indeed have children. This would not exclude the man with a barren wife. It only says that if he does have children, they should be in subjection. It does however raise a question as to whether a single man should serve in this capacity. I can certainly see why this might be a problem, though I'm not divisive about it.


Da Sheik..... you will soon realize that Major..... is the only one on here who truly knows the Bible and how to correctly divide it...... lolol next up will be that you just don't know how to apply hermeneutics...... lolol

Just kidding... having some fun
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3/10/12 12:11 am


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Post We've put the cart before the horse Joshua Henson
When talking about presuppositions, we must first examine the real presupposition that determines everything we interpret..."Are the New Testament writings on church government PRESCRIPTIVE OR DESCRIPTIVE?"

Then lets take the next step..."Are they writing COMMANDS OR RECOMMENDATIONS?"

Those two questions change how we interpret 1 Timothy 3. Namely because the church has radically changed in the past two thousand years.

If take the New Testament as "Prescriptive Commands" then there isn't a church or denomination in the world who is right or even close for that matter.

What I've discovered is that each of us have our soapboxes...

For some it's tithing...
For some it's women in ministry (either side)...
For some it's denominations...
For some it's having a book of Acts church...

You pick it...it's out there.

How does this change the way we view 1 Tim 3?
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3/10/12 11:30 am


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Post Thank the Lord for our Sisters in the Lord Pastors Friend
Mark Hardgrove wrote:
Some can, and some can't. This applies to men as well.


Amen, Mark. I know of many men that is incapable of being the high priest of his family. Thank God for godly women in the church. Besides, who is going to tell a successful woman pastor that she is in error for pastoring a church with men in it? I personally know of one woman pastor that went to San Francisco in 1966. She was a divorced mother of two. She built a church from an old theater. She filled that church with a lot of undesirables. The church has grown into a wonderful work for God. She has since passed away, and her son is now the pastor. Her name --Marilyn Gazowski. The church is located on Ocean Blvd. BTW, several grown men tried unsuccessfully to build a church there and all failed.
PF Very Happy
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3/10/12 11:58 am


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Post Link
I don't 'deacon' as a role of having pastoral or governmental authority over other people. I am inclined to believe that the early churches did have some female deacons.

I do not believe that women should serve as overseers in the church. They are not the 'husband of one wife' and there is an issue if women 'rule their houses well' if the husband is in the house. They aren't to rule over their husbands. Being a good husband and father help prepare a man for eldership, and this training program is just not open for women.

As far as women 'pastoring' is concerned, I am open to the idea that 'pastor' is a looser term than many on the board would take it. Elders are to pastor, and much of what people think of regarding 'pastors' taht has to do with scripture relates to the elders/overseers of the church. Might not someone teaching a Bible study and discipling people be 'pastoring' them. Might not an older woman who disciples a yougner woman and teaches her to love her husband, be diligent around the home, and to submit to her husband be 'pastoring' her.

I really think Pentecostalism and certain sectors of evangelicalism need to get away from this model of being 'called' as the one soul criteria for a 'pastor' wnho oversees the flock of God, and get back to the Biblical qualifications.

The apostles left elders-- 'older men', 'senior men', presters, as appointed 'official' recognized leaders to pastor local churches. There are a couple of lists of requirements for this role.

I suspect that 'and their women' may refer to women deaconesses. Who knows, maybe wives served with husbands in this role? The fact that Paul commends Phoebe as a servant/ deacon is very telling.
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3/10/12 3:22 pm


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Post History note--The COG used to have Deacon's certificates roughridercog
I had an AB whose wife showed me her father's Deacon's certificate. It looked just like the old Exhorters certificiate except it was orange.

She said a lot of the deacons could preach better than many of the preachers and that led to a lot of jealousy. So they did away with the Deacon's certificate. If they wanted to preach, they could go ahead and get their exhorters.
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3/11/12 6:14 pm


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