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Will those who never heard Gospel be sent to hell?
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Post Let's Be Perfectly Clear... FloridaForever
No one can be saved EXCEPT by and through Jesus.

Period. (Read the above over and over, for that is my position.)

I find it amazing that people STILL cannot follow the argument I'm making.

Very simply, I claim that a bad person who has never heard the gospel may go directly to hell/judgment, since he/she has already sinned against what little light they did have. I also claim that IF IF IF there is a good person who has never heard the gospel, and that he/she has tried as best they know, ACCORDING TO THE LIGHT THEY DO HAVE, to be in good standing with God and their conscience, that person WILL get the opportunity to hear the gospel.

It may be a missionary.

It may be a vision.

It may be an angel.

Or it may be (and this is the crux of this controversy) that AFTER the person dies, God ensures that the gospel is presented. Why? Because NO ONE CAN BE SAVED EXCEPT THROUGH JESUS.

I simply doubt that every single good person who ever lived after 33 A.D. heard a missionary, had a vision, read the Bible, or was visited by an angel. That being the case, HOW AND WHEN did these folks hear the gospel that I am certain they would be given the opportunity to hear?

Well, if it didn't happen in THIS life, it must happen in the next...if it's going to happen at all, right?

My friend, Wyatt, believes that those heathen that reach out for God will somehow be made aware of the gospel. However, he believes, if I understand him, that this can and will take place ONLY in this life. That once the guy dies, it's over.

I challenge that take, since there is no scripture that prevents it. In fact, Jesus preached to the dead during his three days in the grave. But why...if there is absolutely nothing that could be availed from such an action? I submit that it is because it CAN avail after death.

So, to reiterate, NO ONE CAN BE SAVED, NO MATTER HOW GOOD THEY ARE, WITHOUT JESUS. PERIOD.

I hope we can all get that part understood.


Last edited by FloridaForever on 1/7/12 8:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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1/7/12 8:43 pm


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Post Great discussion so far! 4thgeneration
Wow! I think this is the biggest response I've gotten to any thread I've started! Smile

There are certainly some intense and interesting perspectives being defended vigorously throughout the discussion- mostly without insult! Rolling Eyes

Something mentioned in the early part brought intrigue to me. It is a generally accepted belief that children are given a pass until they reach what is termed "the age of accountability." This time is connected to their coming to an age of moving out of ignorance to being able to understand the concepts of sin and their need of forgiveness and salvation.

So here is my thought on that-
Explain the difference in a child who hasn't come out of the ignorance of not knowing and in a family living deep in the jungle of the Amazon who has never heard and thus lives in that same kind of ignorance.

And sorry, 4-golf, but you can't force my hand in giving an answer. I started this thread to hear opinions from others, not to try and dominate it with mine.

Thanks for all the input!
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1/7/12 8:44 pm


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Post Rafael...and yet FloridaForever
I'm not a Mormon, as you seem to think, but if it's a mistake, it seems to be an easy one to make...(SEE BELOW)


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(1 Cor 15:29 KJV) Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
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1/7/12 8:46 pm


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Post Re: Great discussion so far! Quiet Wyatt
4thgeneration wrote:

So here is my thought on that-
Explain the difference in a child who hasn't come out of the ignorance of not knowing and in a family living deep in the jungle of the Amazon who has never heard and thus lives in that same kind of ignorance.


As far as heathens who have grown up beyond their age of moral accountability (and I do believe the "age of accountabililty" depends on many unique factors to each individual and is different for every child and not a specific age as such), all the posts I've made previously with regard to the guilt of sinning against the degree of light each has should suffice to explain why in my view a heathen adult would not be in the same category as a newborn infant.

Rom. 2:12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
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1/7/12 8:57 pm


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Post Age... 4thgeneration
Is there biblical justification for the concept of an "age of accountability" as pertaining to a point at which children move from getting a grace pass to becoming responsible for their spiritual condition? Acts Enthusiast
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1/8/12 8:00 am


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Post Re: Age... bradfreeman
4thgeneration wrote:
Is there biblical justification for the concept of an "age of accountability" as pertaining to a point at which children move from getting a grace pass to becoming responsible for their spiritual condition?


This is the only age I can find -- 20.

Numbers 14:29 In this desert your bodies will fall--every one of you twenty years old or more who was counted in the census and who has grumbled against me.

None of the teenagers were held accountable for grumbling against God.

See also Numbers 1:3 You and Aaron are to number by their divisions all the men in Israel twenty years old or more who are able to serve in the army.
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1/12/12 7:37 am


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Post Quiet Wyatt
For before the boy will know enough to refuse evil and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread will be forsaken. Isaiah 7:16

‘Moreover, your little ones who you said would become a prey, and your sons, who this day have no knowledge of good or evil, shall enter there, and I will give it to them and they shall possess it. Deut 1:39 NASB

Accountability according to knowledge is powerfully intuited by us all and is clearly implied by all the denunciations against willful sin in the Scriptures.

In Judaism, when a boy reached 13 he became fully responsible to keep the law (bar mitvah).

Quote:
Certainly, a 13-year-old child is capable of knowing the difference between right and wrong and of being held responsible for his actions, and that is all it really means to become a bar mitzvah.

http://www.jewfaq.org/barmitz.htm
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1/12/12 11:45 am


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Post Quiet Wyatt
Also, I would not say children get "a grace pass." Instead I would say they are not fully responsible yet.

Saying God doesn't throw babies into the lake of fire isn't saying He gives them "a grace pass," it's simply saying He is a God of love, justice, and truth.

Saying it's a grace pass would only be true if one held to a Augustinian/Calvinistic view of children as somehow being born under the wrath and condemnation of God on account of Adam's original sin. The early church fathers, Arminians and other freewill theists have never affirmed that God's wrath was upon children due to Adam's sin. Jesus said of children that "Of such is the kingdom of heaven," and that "their angels do always behold the face of the Father in heaven."
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1/12/12 12:01 pm


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