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Associate Churches...
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Post Associate Churches... Rife Stewart
To keep from hijacking another thread on Church plants, I wanted to respond in a new thread.

Change Agent wrote:
I would have to agree if you are a big wheel on the national scene you can get away with pastoring a non-denominational church or pastoring another denominational church. The average COG pastor will have his license pulled for trying something like this. This is politics that is allowed at the highest level of the COG. DOUBLE STANDARD.


I'm not just talking about the national scene like the instance of Free Chapel Orange County. I totally do not have a problem with it, I just don't understand it. But there are other pastors out there that are not on the national scene the have credentials with the COG and pastor churches that are not a part of our denomination.

Let me first of all say, I AM TOTALLY OKAY WITH THIS!

I know for a fact that men are Ordained Bishops and the churches they pastor are not COGs. These men were approached about licensure and credentialed knowing they are not going to bring their existing churches into the COG. Again, I AM TOTALLY OKAY WITH THIS.

But I think it's just laughable that we are going to try to pass a measure on something that we already practice.
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9/14/11 4:07 pm


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Post Associate Churches Change Agent
I am also for associate churches. The church of God is turning out more ministers in its MIP program and @ Lee University than is needed in most states. Associate churches would give some of these ministers a place to pastor.

Current minutes states "Be it further resolved that we do not approve our ministers pastoring or otherwise asisting such independent congregations, and declare that ministers who persist in doing so are out of harmony with our stated policy of centralized government; and appropriate action should be initiated by proper authorities against offending ministers." Also "Be it therefore resolved that the International General Assembly does not recognize or approve the practice of our ministers setting up independent congregations who do not suscribe to the doctrines, faith, practices, teachings, and government of the Church of God."

I know of the Free Chapel situation. It is against what the current minutes state, and high COG officials would like to get the associate church issue passed so it would get some of the pressure off them to do something about it.

I predict that the OB's will not approve the Associate Church at the GA next year. I would like to hear from some of the OB's on their view.
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9/14/11 8:01 pm


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Post Cojak
I have no problem with 'associate churches' from my view from the pew.

I do however have a problem with everyone not following the same rules as to who can pastor and who cannot..
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9/14/11 8:33 pm


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Post Larry Wiley
I agree with Cojak. I have no problem with associate churches, I do have a problem with double standards.

I love Jentezen and hope him the very best. Glad he has had the opportunity in S. Ca. Heard him say the church is now running 4K.
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9/14/11 9:13 pm


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Post Cojak and LArry KevinWallace
If it advances the Kingdom why do we fell so slighted? To me "it's not fair" is not a good excuse. What advances the kingdom should be the issue.
(I do not say this abrasively, just clarifying because that statement could be interpreted to be harsh)
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9/14/11 9:35 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
If they allow associate churches (which I personally would be fine with too), then they would in due course also have to decentralize and let ALL local churches own their own property, have their own local board, hire and fire their own pastors, etc. (which I personally would not be fine with), or else they must come up with some kind of two-tiered set-up of churches, where some are full members and some are associate members. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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9/14/11 9:40 pm


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Post Turn About Is Fair Play Mark Hardgrove
If an independant church can become an associate church, can a denominational church become an associate church? Shouldn't that pendulum swing both ways.
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9/14/11 9:52 pm


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Post Larry Wiley
Quote:
If it advances the Kingdom why do we fell so slighted? To me "it's not fair" is not a good excuse. What advances the kingdom should be the issue.
(I do not say this abrasively, just clarifying because that statement could be interpreted to be harsh)


I am not opposed to Jenezen and the Ca deal. Just saying men who are not as well known should get the same chance.
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9/14/11 9:55 pm


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Post happened to me. John Stokes
I received a letter stating I had voluntarily surrendered my credentials when our church pulled out of the COG. that was good to know.
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9/14/11 10:41 pm


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Post sheepdogandy
De-centralization is coming to the Church of God.

It's just a matter of time.

The Associate church concept is just too tempting to pass up.

Too many positives come with it.
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9/15/11 7:27 am


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Post Associate Churches Change Agent
There are too many pastors in the COG that have the attitude that " the current system has been good to me" for them to vote yes on associate churches and decentralization of the COG. There is going to be a lot of fear discussed at the GA when this issue is presented. Acts Enthusiast
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9/15/11 10:08 am


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Post Quiet Wyatt
I do know in the A/G and FSQ they used to have something like associate churches, where the ministers held credentials with the A/G or FSQ while pastoring nondenominational churches with the blessing of the denomination. Oftentimes these churches would participate in the world missions programs or other endeavors of the denomination, while still retaining their nondenominational status.

While the A/G is a lot more loosely organized than the CoG, the FSQ has a hierarchical form of government similar in many ways to the CoG.
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9/15/11 3:43 pm


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Post Travis Johnson
If our goal is control, we should not allow associate churches because we have no way to MAKE them do what we want.

If our goal is mission cooperation, we should allow associate churches because we can compel people to WANT to participate with us in mission.
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9/15/11 4:33 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
They would have to work out some kind of special associate status arrangement, but even still it will probably lead to total decentralization of the CoG, with local boards having hire-and-fire authority over pastors.

Having been a pastor in the A/G before and having plenty of friends and family who still are, I would not be in favor of the CoG adopting a congregational or modiified congregational form of gov't, though I suppose it probably does not matter what I think anyway.
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9/15/11 4:47 pm


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Post sheepdogandy
Our church has operated with Congregational government since 1989.

With proper by-laws the Pastor and the members can enjoy security.

The by-laws are the key.
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9/15/11 7:59 pm


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Post Travis Johnson
sheepdogandy wrote:
Our church has operated with Congregational government since 1989.

With proper by-laws the Pastor and the members can enjoy security.

The by-laws are the key.


Sheep.

You should share about how your by-laws work.

Also, we can decentralize and transition pastoral selection to allow for pastors to come from a pool of ministers in good standing within the COG. Local churches can then contact the prospective pastor they are interested in.

This would relieve a massive administrative load on the state offices. The state could still function with good oversight.
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9/15/11 8:10 pm


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Post I know this is over-simplification, but... Rife Stewart
Quote:
"Quiet Wyatt"] They would have to work out some kind of special associate status arrangement, but even still it will probably lead to total decentralization of the CoG, with local boards having hire-and-fire authority over pastors.


"They" would not have to do anything....it's already being done!!! Why can't we just operate like those churches are operating. Let's ask them what they are doing? or How they are doing it?

Does anybody notice the elephant in the room? Again, I'm cool with it being in the room, but let's not act like it's not already there. We're having a conversation about letting him in the room,...he's already taken a seat in the corner and enjoying a cup of coffee while we talk about him. Laughing
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9/15/11 9:01 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
The associate churches thing didn't pass at the GA. There are a few irregular cases, but the issue is we need to have a regular policy for all, not special deals for some. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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9/15/11 9:06 pm


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Post Elephant in the Room Change Agent
Rife states"the elephant is already in the room". The post by John Stokes doesn't look like he was in the room. Do you have other churches besides Free Chapel to help us understand that the elephant is "really" in the room? If you mentioned them in this forum would they end up like John Stokes? Acts Enthusiast
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9/15/11 10:25 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
If we're going to have associate churches or CoG ministers pastoring nondenominational churches I'm fine with that. We just need to amend the Minutes to reflect that. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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9/15/11 10:29 pm


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