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Does God hate sinners?
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Post helping hand
MFWKC wrote:
We do not need a New Testament verse for this. God does not change.
Are we trying to suggest that God matured from the Old to the New?

Just to be clear, this is what God can do, because he can do it correctly.

We are instructed to love. Do not confuse the two. We are not God. We are not just. We are not holy. We are not righteous. We ARE sinners.

Outside of accepting what He did for us, through the death of Jesus, we are in the same boat. We must accept it with repentance and faith.

Our morality and religion is just as sinful to God. If we think we are without sin, then we have pride and we move to the front of the sin bus.


ThanK you! The only sin that will send anyone to hell is the sin of unbelief. God isn't mad at us anymore. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world! Not just the ones that accepted Him. When He was born, what did the Angels sing? Peace on earth, goodwill towards men...from WHOM? From God the father! He was reconciling the earth to Himself. He was taking it back from satan and giving it back to us and releasing His holy Spirit to make dead spirits of men able to become alive,quickened, born of the spirit. He didn't come to make bad men good but to make dead men alive!
One day He will remove His Spirit again and get rid of the unbelievers and saton and the fallen angels but until then ...He isn't mad at us and He is still seeing us thru the lens of the cross...He loves us all. He doesn't love any of us any more now than He did 10 seconds before we were saved and nothing we can do can make Him love us any more than HE ALREADY DOES. HE LOVES US!!
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5/5/11 2:09 pm


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Post MFWKC
helping hand wrote:
MFWKC wrote:
We do not need a New Testament verse for this. God does not change.
Are we trying to suggest that God matured from the Old to the New?

Just to be clear, this is what God can do, because he can do it correctly.

We are instructed to love. Do not confuse the two. We are not God. We are not just. We are not holy. We are not righteous. We ARE sinners.

Outside of accepting what He did for us, through the death of Jesus, we are in the same boat. We must accept it with repentance and faith.

Our morality and religion is just as sinful to God. If we think we are without sin, then we have pride and we move to the front of the sin bus.


ThanK you! The only sin that will send anyone to hell is the sin of unbelief. God isn't mad at us anymore. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world! Not just the ones that accepted Him. When He was born, what did the Angels sing? Peace on earth, goodwill towards men...from WHOM? From God the father! He was reconciling the earth to Himself. He was taking it back from satan and giving it back to us and releasing His holy Spirit to make dead spirits of men able to become alive,quickened, born of the spirit. He didn't come to make bad men good but to make dead men alive!
One day He will remove His Spirit again and get rid of the unbelievers and saton and the fallen angels but until then ...He isn't mad at us and He is still seeing us thru the lens of the cross...He loves us all. He doesn't love any of us any more now than He did 10 seconds before we were saved and nothing we can do can make Him love us any more than HE ALREADY DOES. HE LOVES US!!


I think I left out that I think the Old Testament verse is enough to say that 'yes' God hates sinners.
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5/6/11 8:02 am


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Post helping hand
There are some parts of the Old Testament that still apply in our relationship with God under this age of Grace and I guess the battle between legalism and once in Grace always in Grace isn't going to be resolved right here today. I do however wish God would use a Donkey to speak audibly at times to break into some legalistic ways of looking at this world but probably that wouln't even work without someone there with the gift of interpretation!!! Member
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5/6/11 1:57 pm


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Post MFWKC
I hear what you are saying.

My only concern is when I hear people use the word legalism, they use it as a blanket term.


They like to use the term to defend their enjoyment of pop culture (music and movies) and not have to answer to anyone who questions it. In other words we are entertained and excited by the same things the world likes.

if you are just talking about make-up, "bundage", and swimming with dresses on or even the "Law", then I agree that was/is legalism.



Also, I believe that grace is available to those who believe. God's attitude towards sin and unrighteousness has not and will not change.

We are in an age of God's kindness shown by patience and forbearance. This kindness is meant to give us time to come to repentance, but we have used it to formulate a belief that we are A-OK with God. Romans 1-2 pretty much covers all of this.

In other words we don't need a donkey to speak (I think we have plenty of that going on)......WE need to read our Bibles more. It is all there.
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5/6/11 4:01 pm


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Post RaceForTheCure
MFWKC wrote:
helping hand wrote:
MFWKC wrote:
We do not need a New Testament verse for this. God does not change.
Are we trying to suggest that God matured from the Old to the New?

Just to be clear, this is what God can do, because he can do it correctly.

We are instructed to love. Do not confuse the two. We are not God. We are not just. We are not holy. We are not righteous. We ARE sinners.

Outside of accepting what He did for us, through the death of Jesus, we are in the same boat. We must accept it with repentance and faith.

Our morality and religion is just as sinful to God. If we think we are without sin, then we have pride and we move to the front of the sin bus.


ThanK you! The only sin that will send anyone to hell is the sin of unbelief. God isn't mad at us anymore. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world! Not just the ones that accepted Him. When He was born, what did the Angels sing? Peace on earth, goodwill towards men...from WHOM? From God the father! He was reconciling the earth to Himself. He was taking it back from satan and giving it back to us and releasing His holy Spirit to make dead spirits of men able to become alive,quickened, born of the spirit. He didn't come to make bad men good but to make dead men alive!
One day He will remove His Spirit again and get rid of the unbelievers and saton and the fallen angels but until then ...He isn't mad at us and He is still seeing us thru the lens of the cross...He loves us all. He doesn't love any of us any more now than He did 10 seconds before we were saved and nothing we can do can make Him love us any more than HE ALREADY DOES. HE LOVES US!!


I think I left out that I think the Old Testament verse is enough to say that 'yes' God hates sinners.


So if the only sin that will send anyone to hell is disbelief then we can belive in God but ignore the 10 commandments? Hmmmmm ....... I think - NOT! That sounds like once saved always saved to me.
I believe in Osama Bin Laden but that doesn't make me a muslim and believing (and just believing) in God DOES NOT make you a Christian and guarantee you will go to Heaven. I believe in the devil too - I hope that won't send me to Hell. You're weaving a salvation blanket and there is no such thing. God gave us the perfect instruction manual and it's called THE BIBLE. Check out those commandments I mentioned - I don't think it says "Thou shalt not kill" but if you believe in God/Jesus/Holy Spirit you will go to Heaven. Nope - I just can't go along with it.

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5/6/11 6:51 pm


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Post The strict Constructionis
Sin is "transgression of the LAW". Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia
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Post Quiet Wyatt
If "God isn't mad at us any more" one has to wonder what in the world Paul was talking about in passages such as the following, which were written after the beginning of the beginning of the New Covenant:

Rom. 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. NASB

There are so many it should not even need to be mentioned. It is truly a wonder why some folks think the Old Testament is all law/wrath and the New is all grace/love and that God somehow is no longer wrathful against sin.
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5/6/11 8:25 pm


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Post MFWKC
RaceForTheCure wrote:
MFWKC wrote:
helping hand wrote:
MFWKC wrote:
We do not need a New Testament verse for this. God does not change.
Are we trying to suggest that God matured from the Old to the New?

Just to be clear, this is what God can do, because he can do it correctly.

We are instructed to love. Do not confuse the two. We are not God. We are not just. We are not holy. We are not righteous. We ARE sinners.

Outside of accepting what He did for us, through the death of Jesus, we are in the same boat. We must accept it with repentance and faith.

Our morality and religion is just as sinful to God. If we think we are without sin, then we have pride and we move to the front of the sin bus.


ThanK you! The only sin that will send anyone to hell is the sin of unbelief. God isn't mad at us anymore. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world! Not just the ones that accepted Him. When He was born, what did the Angels sing? Peace on earth, goodwill towards men...from WHOM? From God the father! He was reconciling the earth to Himself. He was taking it back from satan and giving it back to us and releasing His holy Spirit to make dead spirits of men able to become alive,quickened, born of the spirit. He didn't come to make bad men good but to make dead men alive!
One day He will remove His Spirit again and get rid of the unbelievers and saton and the fallen angels but until then ...He isn't mad at us and He is still seeing us thru the lens of the cross...He loves us all. He doesn't love any of us any more now than He did 10 seconds before we were saved and nothing we can do can make Him love us any more than HE ALREADY DOES. HE LOVES US!!


I think I left out that I think the Old Testament verse is enough to say that 'yes' God hates sinners.


So if the only sin that will send anyone to hell is disbelief then we can belive in God but ignore the 10 commandments? Hmmmmm ....... I think - NOT! That sounds like once saved always saved to me.
I believe in Osama Bin Laden but that doesn't make me a muslim and believing (and just believing) in God DOES NOT make you a Christian and guarantee you will go to Heaven. I believe in the devil too - I hope that won't send me to Hell. You're weaving a salvation blanket and there is no such thing. God gave us the perfect instruction manual and it's called THE BIBLE. Check out those commandments I mentioned - I don't think it says "Thou shalt not kill" but if you believe in God/Jesus/Holy Spirit you will go to Heaven. Nope - I just can't go along with it.


Not sure who this is directed at.

Like I said, you must accept it with Repentance and Faith.

I am not saying simply believe.

If you have genuine repentance and faith, the Holy Spirit will empower you to live it. Not perfect though.


For the record, do you claim to be without sin. You follow all the 600 plus laws.

If so, I would like to meet you. Romans 3:9-11
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5/6/11 11:15 pm


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Post helping hand
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
If "God isn't mad at us any more" one has to wonder what in the world Paul was talking about in passages such as the following, which were written after the beginning of the beginning of the New Covenant:

Rom. 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. NASB

There are so many it should not even need to be mentioned. It is truly a wonder why some folks think the Old Testament is all law/wrath and the New is all grace/love and that God somehow is no longer wrathful against sin.


Does it anywhere in the new testament; after the work of Christ on the cross; ever mention the wrath of God with out saying something about the DAY OF WRATH or THE TRIBULATION? NO, NO, NO it doesn't!! It will only happen after the Holy Spirit is removed...after the rapture! The God of My understanding isn't angry at the world at this particular time in eternity. And I probably believe more in true Repentance than ye all! But my judgement of others and the world is "but for the grace of God" there go I. I want to be judged as I judge just as the scriptures say. I was brought old school cog and I couldn't live up to my own standards and neither could anyone else. I have since then trown away my predjudices and not let what I believe stand in the way of what the Bible actually says. I Had a love affair with Jesus that started a few years back and I feel like I'm still on a honeymoon with Him sometimes. I live a more Holy life now accidentally than I ever could have trying to before.
You can love the lost into a relationship with the Lord and that is what the Holy Spirit is trying to do. Why do't we give Him some help and stop telling them that God hates them. He doesn't.
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5/7/11 9:18 pm


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Post The strict Constructionis
helping hand wrote:
Quiet Wyatt wrote:
If "God isn't mad at us any more" one has to wonder what in the world Paul was talking about in passages such as the following, which were written after the beginning of the beginning of the New Covenant:

Rom. 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. NASB

There are so many it should not even need to be mentioned. It is truly a wonder why some folks think the Old Testament is all law/wrath and the New is all grace/love and that God somehow is no longer wrathful against sin.


Does it anywhere in the new testament; after the work of Christ on the cross; ever mention the wrath of God with out saying something about the DAY OF WRATH or THE TRIBULATION? NO, NO, NO it doesn't!! It will only happen after the Holy Spirit is removed...after the rapture! The God of My understanding isn't angry at the world at this particular time in eternity. And I probably believe more in true Repentance than ye all! But my judgement of others and the world is "but for the grace of God" there go I. I want to be judged as I judge just as the scriptures say. I was brought old school cog and I couldn't live up to my own standards and neither could anyone else. I have since then trown away my predjudices and not let what I believe stand in the way of what the Bible actually says. I Had a love affair with Jesus that started a few years back and I feel like I'm still on a honeymoon with Him sometimes. I live a more Holy life now accidentally than I ever could have trying to before.
You can love the lost into a relationship with the Lord and that is what the Holy Spirit is trying to do. Why do't we give Him some help and stop telling them that God hates them. He doesn't.



You are teaching a very dangerous doctrine my friend. The result of your teaching will be false conversions. The wrath of God is eternity in hell, and people go there every second.

New International Version (©1984)
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

New Living Translation (©2007)
And anyone who believes in God's Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn't obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God's angry judgment."

English Standard Version (©2001)
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

International Standard Version (©2008)
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, he will see God's constant anger."

King James Bible
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

American King James Version
He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him.

Notice that this "abiding wrath" is in the present tense.


Last edited by The strict Constructionis on 5/8/11 7:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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5/7/11 10:20 pm


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Post MFWKC
Never said we should tell people he hates sin and sinners too.

I believe we should love. That is what we are commanded to do.

Also, there is not Biblical instruction for us to "love" someone into accepting Christ. We are commanded to love without motive.

We are commanded to sow The Gospel on ALL soul types and the good soil will take it and Lord will do the work.

To be clear The Gospel has to actually be presented and it needs to be received with repentance and faith.

Part of The Gospel is that we are LOST and destined for the Wrath/Anger/Justice of God.

You can't teach the complete Gospel without starting at the place of our self-condemnation.

That is why it says Jesus did not come to condemn the world. We were already condemned. But, that the world through Him MIGHT be saved.

You have to LOVE someone enough to tell them that unless they profess Jesus, they are LOST.
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5/7/11 10:22 pm


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Post The strict Constructionis
MFWKC wrote:
Never said we should tell people he hates sin and sinners too.

I believe we should love. That is what we are commanded to do.

Also, there is not Biblical instruction for us to "love" someone into accepting Christ. We are commanded to love without motive.

We are commanded to sow The Gospel on ALL soul types and the good soil will take it and Lord will do the work.

To be clear The Gospel has to actually be presented and it needs to be received with repentance and faith.

Part of The Gospel is that we are LOST and destined for the Wrath/Anger/Justice of God.

You can't teach the complete Gospel without starting at the place of our self-condemnation.

That is why it says Jesus did not come to condemn the world. We were already condemned. But, that the world through Him MIGHT be saved.

You have to LOVE someone enough to tell them that unless they profess Jesus, they are LOST.



We're too busy today preaching the false gospel of "life enhancement".
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5/7/11 10:26 pm


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Post MFWKC
The strict Constructionis wrote:
MFWKC wrote:
Never said we should tell people he hates sin and sinners too.

I believe we should love. That is what we are commanded to do.

Also, there is not Biblical instruction for us to "love" someone into accepting Christ. We are commanded to love without motive.

We are commanded to sow The Gospel on ALL soul types and the good soil will take it and Lord will do the work.

To be clear The Gospel has to actually be presented and it needs to be received with repentance and faith.

Part of The Gospel is that we are LOST and destined for the Wrath/Anger/Justice of God.

You can't teach the complete Gospel without starting at the place of our self-condemnation.

That is why it says Jesus did not come to condemn the world. We were already condemned. But, that the world through Him MIGHT be saved.

You have to LOVE someone enough to tell them that unless they profess Jesus, they are LOST.



We're too busy today preaching the false gospel of "life enhancement".


I agree.

I am okay with sound doctrine as laid out in Titus, but we have to be careful how far we go down the road of self-improvement.

And, If we don't present The Gospel in a service, then there is no use in doing the bow your head and close your eyes.

I guess the guys who were inspired to write the New Testament never read "Your best life now".

It reads more like your hardest life now, and your best life later.
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5/7/11 10:47 pm


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Post Quiet Wyatt
Rom. 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Helping hand,

We are saved from the wrath of God--by being reconciled to God through the blood of His Son. God's wrath against sin is never turned away from those who refuse to turn away from their sin. We are saved by His life, when we enter into His life through repentance and faith in Him and the blood he shed for us.

I know old-school CoG/Pentecostalism tended to major in minors and was absurdly strict on certain things, and I am certainly not advocating that we try and go back to those days.

We are not, however, free to disregard what the Bible itself, rightly divided, plainly says, as I'm sure you would agree.


Yes indeed it is true that we must love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and "he who lives in love lives in God and God in him" as 1 Jn 4 says. It is true the only way one can live as God wants him to is by living in His love. Anything else is simply futile, and cannot set the sinner free from that which brings the wrath of God upon him--sin.
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5/8/11 12:00 am


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This reminds me of some posts from a guy on YouTube. I had watched the guys videos. He'd been doing street healing. I friended him on Facebook. But he posted this video. He'd read a book called 'The Naked Gospel.' I don't know if his theology is exactly the same as that book, but he said he learned some things from it.

He was saying that after the cross, God isn't angry at sinners anymore. The war is over. He also said that Christians did not have to confess their sins.

I see in the Bible that the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all unrighteousness and ungodliness of men. I see that people are storing up wrath against the day of wrath. If they are storing up wrath, then isn't God angry?

As far as Christians confessing sins go, he was arguing that John 1:9 is about sinners confessing their sins. I asked Jesus put that line in the Lord's prayer 'forgive us our sins' and repeated that teaching that if you don't forgive others, God won't forgive you, over and over if it was only going to be valid for a couple of years, and wouldn't be relevant by the time the book was written. It doesn't make sense.

This guy's ideas about God's wrath and forgiveness, seemed to be built on some of Paul's writings, if that, ignoring other writings of Paul, and didn't seem to take into account Christ's teachings, imo. One of his prooftexts from II Corinthians, that one the universalists like, about God reconciling the world to Himself, doesn't say anything about Christians not needing forgiveness.

I can't find any verses in the New Testament about Christians being under wrath. Christians are warned not to engage in certain things for which the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience. We are warned about chastisement, which can include sickness and falling 'asleep.' There is one passage in Hebrews 10, though, about sinning wilfully after having knowledge of the truth, trodding under food the blood of Christ, and the indignation that awaits such a person.
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5/8/11 1:47 am


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Post helping hand
Where did I say God doesn't hate sin? When did I say we didn't need to repent of/from our sins? What I said was/is God isn't mad at us anymore. He Doesn't hate the sinner but the sin. If we die in our sins we are out of luck/game over! BUT He didn't love you or me anymore the day after we were saved than the day before we were saved and Nothing you can do to be more holy can Ever make Him love you more! Is everybody with me so far? These are not hard concepts. He chose everyone of us to be saved from our sins...all we did was accept His gift. We have no claim of Anything good within ourselves other than BELIEVING. How pompous to say there are false conversions thru love more than thru the fear of the wrath of God. Whenever the love of God gets a hold on anyone there is a conviction felt from the Holy Spirit and a desire to change. Why? Because they are ashamed of their past (repentant) and asking God to cleanse them from their sins. You can't tell them How much Jesus loves them w/out telling them why He had to die for them and their need to repent of their sins. I just don't believe God Hates sinners....He may have hated you before you were saved but He loved me right where I was and he who is forgiven much loveth much. If God hated us so much; why did He die for us? Because He hated sin and we were stuck in it; but He loved man so much that He gave His only .... Get over it! LOL! The only explaination for the cross is Gods love for all mankind. Ha,hahahah! Let it go man. You can't get around it. Even tho He knew most wouldn't accept Him, He did it for the few who would. I love you guys...can't wait till we can talk to Him in person. Member
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5/8/11 6:13 am


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Post MFWKC
I guess we have heard it here...some think we can just toss out some things written by David..."a man after God's own heart"

Can you tell us what other parts of Psalms we should disregard?

I know it is hard for the love/inclusion camp to swallow, but it is there.

It says God doesn't change. He is patient however.
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5/8/11 10:34 pm


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Post diakoneo
God has already loved sinners, but He did not love sinners for them to stay sinners.

Romans 5:6. For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

We were without strength and unable to do anything good, because the flesh was weak.
We were ungodly, unqualified and therefore unable to serve Him...
We were sinners. This was our nature and what we did. It was who we were!
We were enemies. Sinners and ungodly are God's enemies. God Loved His enemies as He has told us to do.
We were reconciled. Reconciliation is a mutual action. It could only be initiated by God because we were strength-less, ungodly, sinners who were His enemies. God sent His Son to initiate the reconciliation and we must accept His son or suffer His wrath.

Love is action not feeling...
Christ did not love us in dying for us on the cross, so that we could remain in our sin.

Hate has more to do with degrees of love (i.e. Love less),so God has in deed Loved us and can still hate (love us less) us at the same time if sin is manifested in our lives! (He loves a cheerful giver, so it is possible He loves less an uncheerful giver). He loved us and shed abroad His love in us by the Holy Spirit. This is a love that empowers and compels us to live a Holy and pleasing life.

The love by the Holy Spirit gives us the strength that we were without, to be Powerful, Godly, sinless, friends of God!
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5/9/11 8:19 am


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Post kmann1
Lord Chancellor wrote:
No, God does not hate sinners.

Sorry.



Is it biblical to say that God hates those whose names are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life? Or those that are not part of the elect?
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5/9/11 9:03 pm


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Post p5harri
kmann1 wrote:
Lord Chancellor wrote:
No, God does not hate sinners.

Sorry.



Is it biblical to say that God hates those whose names are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life? Or those that are not part of the elect?


No. But please print me off a list of the elect so we know who to visit.

Patrick
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We are beating the bushes for mice and the lions are tearing us apart.
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5/9/11 9:19 pm


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