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Would you let some who drinks join your church?
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Post Re: Would you let some who drinks join your church? krista
Lord Chancellor wrote:
MARK317 wrote:
Lord Chancellor wrote:
MARK317 wrote:
Lord Chancellor wrote:
MARK317 wrote:
Kyle Morrow wrote:
Lord Chancellor wrote:


What about those who wish to become members (or who are members) who do not abstain from coffee and other products which contain caffeine (a habit-forming, mood-altering, addictive chemical substance that the Minutes- in the very same paragraph- just as clearly says we are to abstain from)?

Are they allowed to become members, and if so, why and why them and not those who moderately consume alcohol?




You have that right. I get the impression Lord Chancelor is angry about something. I read a few of his posts and he never has anything good to say. Is he a Pastor?


Not angry, here. Just amused at the casuistry displayed by some. Wink

It's gets really funny when someone says they wouldn't take in members because they don't abide by the Practical Commitments, when they themselves, deny what the Practical Commitments clearly and explicitly say and don't abide by them.

That's funny stuff.


So being a Pastor of the Church of God, how do you take in members if you disagree with the minutes?


The same way you do.


I seriously doubt that. After reading some of your posts, I realize we are nothing alike. I would never serve my Church angry and disgruntled as you do. If I got to that point, I believe I would look elsewhere. Just my opinion, but that is the vibe you give out on the board.


Don't doubt it, friend. It seems to be a fact, based on what you have said. I would take in members who drink (in moderation and without being drunkards) despite the fact that Practical Commitments says we are to abstain from alcohol the VERY same way you take in members who consume caffeine despite the fact that the Practical Commitments says that we are to abstain from all habit-forming, mood-altering, addictive chemical substances.

And I'm not angry nor disgruntled. The only reason you even say that is because some parody pen name spouted it off in another post on the last page. That person is not here to participate in discussion but rather to be a contrarian and stir the pot with ridiculous statements. The person does not address issues, because the person has no desire to, nor answer for them. Instead, the poster just throws out PLEASE SELECT ANOTHER WORD to see if someone else will take the bait, which you have done in this instance.

I may disagree with a few things (a very few things), but my voicing disagreement doesn't equate being disgruntled and angry at the Church. Although, there is one issue (and only one that I can think of) that does cause me to be angry, but this thread isn't about that.


Question for you LC if you're not too afraid of me. That part where you say" PLEASE SELECT ANOTHER WORD". If it were not for being public forum, would you say the actual word? Just wondering because you say it a lot. And isn't putting that out there kind of...you know......bad?
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3/10/11 4:51 pm


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Post Re: Would you let some who drinks join your church? MARK317
Lord Chancellor wrote:
MARK317 wrote:

I I can't speak for others, but there is an obvious anger issue here you should deal with. The practical commitments are the same ones you became a Minister under. It just seems so incredible to now be so vocal about them.


I think you should probably address the issue you jumped into this thread to discuss and that you've ignored for the past two or three posts, instead choosing to focus on my non-existent anger. Laughing I wonder why that is.

Yes, Mark. They're the same Practical Commitments that I became a minister under.

They've been the same Practical Commitments for quite a while. Maybe, they are the same Practical Commitments you became a minister under, as well. I don't know, but it doesn't matter, anyway.

The bottom line is that the Practical Commitments prohibit the use of alcohol. Jesus, Himself, would be frowned upon.

Another fact remains, too. The same Practical Commitments prohibit the use of caffeine. It's a fact. I'm sorry you don't like it. I don't like it, either, but there's nothing I can do about it. Most of our members are in violation.

But, we overlook that, though- because we pick and choose which Practical Commitments we wish to abide by and which ones don't really matter.

That's the fact of the matter, and it's been evidenced by almost everyone in this thread, including yourself. Until we revise the PC's and toss out the asceticistic, extra-Biblical requirements, and clear up some others, that will continue to be the case.


Let's step aside from the PC's for a moment. Would you want the consumption of alcohol to be a part of the church? Would you want alcohol to be a part of our fellowships? When there is a Church picnic, would you want someone to bring an icechest of beer and it it be a part of us? Would you want a council member to have a few drinks before he came to a Church council meeting. How would you guard against alcohol-influenced Church functions. We all have a hard enough time acting proper as it is, much less if there was the presence of alcohol.
You've been to sports events where alcohol was served. Is that something you would want at your Church softball game?

Now, let's go back to the PC. If the COG suddenly changed the PC's to allow alcohol and it was widely used, you would be ok with that? Seriously?

I am not sure alcohol consumption had as many ramifications in Jesus' day as in our day. I don't think thousands were killed yearly by drunk camel drivers as today.
I don't think in Jesus day that alcohol was major marketing of some to make billions of dollars yet leaving in it's wake a nation of such widespread alcoholism. I just find it hard to believe in today's culture, if Jesus walked this earth, that He would endorse drinking, seeing it's deadly and tragic consequences.
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3/11/11 2:31 pm


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Post Re: Would you let some who drinks join your church? Link
[quote="MARK317"][quote="Lord Chancellor"]
MARK317 wrote:


Now, let's go back to the PC. If the COG suddenly changed the PC's to allow alcohol and it was widely used, you would be ok with that? Seriously?

I am not sure alcohol consumption had as many ramifications in Jesus' day as in our day. I don't think thousands were killed yearly by drunk camel drivers as today.
I don't think in Jesus day that alcohol was major marketing of some to make billions of dollars yet leaving in it's wake a nation of such widespread alcoholism. I just find it hard to believe in today's culture, if Jesus walked this earth, that He would endorse drinking, seeing it's deadly and tragic consequences.


The epistles talk about widespread misuse of alcohol among the Gentiles. In spite of this, neither Christ nor the apostles taught that total abstinence was required of believers.

Christ left us an ordinance. He took the cup, probably full of wine that contained alcohol, and said, "Drink ye all of it."
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3/13/11 10:38 pm


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Post Re: Would you let some who drinks join your church? Randy Johnson
Lord Chancellor wrote:

Something like:
Scripture does not forbid nor prohibit the moderate consumption of alcohol for believers. However, it very clearly and explicitly tells us that drunkenness is a sin and also warns us of the damaging results of abusing alcohol. The Church of God does not condemn the moderate consumption of alcoholic beverages (without drunkenness) as sinful and does not impose abstinence on our members, but we do remain committed to the conclusion that abstinence is the safest, wisest, and best practice for our members and that those who have been enslaved by bondage to alcohol should, in all circumstances, remain abstinent and not return to that yoke of bondage.


This would make a great statement. The only thing that I would add perhaps, is a reference to the Scripture where Paul states he will not be mastered by anything [other than Christ and His Spirit, of course].
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3/14/11 8:26 am


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Post steel
I don't read anywhere in the minutes where one of the requirements for a person becoming a member is to abstain from alcohol. S39 pg. 111-114. Golf Cart Mafia Associate
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3/14/11 3:35 pm


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Post krista
steel wrote:
I don't read anywhere in the minutes where one of the requirements for a person becoming a member is to abstain from alcohol. S39 pg. 111-114.


Then go for it!!!!
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3/14/11 4:49 pm


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Post steel
krista wrote:
steel wrote:
I don't read anywhere in the minutes where one of the requirements for a person becoming a member is to abstain from alcohol. S39 pg. 111-114.


Then go for it!!!!


How did I know you were going to be the one to make a comment. I do believe you are an internet stalker! You must be fascinated with the man of steel
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3/14/11 5:03 pm


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Post krista
steel wrote:
krista wrote:
steel wrote:
I don't read anywhere in the minutes where one of the requirements for a person becoming a member is to abstain from alcohol. S39 pg. 111-114.


Then go for it!!!!


How did I know you were going to be the one to make a comment. I do believe you are an internet stalker! You must be fascinated with the man of steel


I'm Lois Lane you know. Laughing Laughing
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3/14/11 5:37 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Sorry Krista.

(said with my best Lloyd Bentsen voice)

I know Lois Lane.

Lois Lane is a friend of mine.

You're no Lois Lane.
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3/14/11 5:46 pm


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Post krista
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Sorry Krista.

(said with my best Lloyd Bentsen voice)

I know Lois Lane.

Lois Lane is a friend of mine.

You're no Lois Lane.


And you're no Nature Boy either. No matter what picture you put up. Just a confederate good ole boy.
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3/14/11 5:51 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
I am the Nature Boy. And don't you forget it.

however, I am about to be persuaded to change my stance on drinking.

Since krista is always wrong - I need to rethink my position on the matter.
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3/14/11 6:04 pm


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Post krista
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
I am the Nature Boy. And don't you forget it.

however, I am about to be persuaded to change my stance on drinking.

Since krista is always wrong - I need to rethink my position on the matter.


The only thing natural about you is your fat belly. Laughing Laughing
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3/14/11 6:06 pm


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Post PastorJackson
krista wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
I am the Nature Boy. And don't you forget it.

however, I am about to be persuaded to change my stance on drinking.

Since krista is always wrong - I need to rethink my position on the matter.


The only thing natural about you is your fat belly. Laughing Laughing



Shocked ohhhhh snap!!! no she didnt lol
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3/15/11 12:56 pm


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Post krista
PastorJackson wrote:
krista wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
I am the Nature Boy. And don't you forget it.

however, I am about to be persuaded to change my stance on drinking.

Since krista is always wrong - I need to rethink my position on the matter.


The only thing natural about you is your fat belly. Laughing Laughing



Shocked ohhhhh snap!!! no she didnt lol


Nb actually knows I love him. He is one of the guys on Acts I see as sport and prey. Laughing Laughing
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3/15/11 1:00 pm


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Post .... wayne
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5/31/11 9:23 am


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Post Regardless of the final word on alcohol consumption... Randy Johnson
What good reason is there to consume alcohol in this day and age except to alter your mind?

When the secular world has finally gotten around to warning about the dangers of alcohol, even without a religious impetus, why do we in the Church so strongly support it?

Is the real issue alcohol or is it something else that alcohol just serves as a practical example of?
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5/31/11 8:05 pm


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Post PastorPaul2
I believe a little wine for the stomach sake is not wrong. Scripture says do not be drunk. In our church we go by the Bible and that is what we follow. If you are an alcoholic don't drink but if you feel you can have a drink that is your personal conviction between you and God. Legalism needs to stop in the church and this is just one form of it. Do what the bible says and you will be alright.
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