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Would you let some who drinks join your church?
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Post Eddie Robbins
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Krista is right.

Grouping caffeine and Budweiser is idiotic.

There are many people in jail for downing a 12 pack and plowing into a family of four. There are none in jail for downing too many Starbucks.

Even the govt sees a difference - but some posters on here can't.

Very sad.


That has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING. The Practical Commitments of the Church of God is not based on what send you to jail. Abortion is legal. Smoking is legal. Alcohol is legal. Gambling is legal...in some places. This list is LONG. It is AGAINST the Practical Commitments to partake of habit forming substances. PERIOD. Caffeine is a habit forming substance. Many people are addicted to it.

The point is, you can't enforce ONE commitment and ignore the others....although we do. The point is not what sends you to jail. The commitments are not based on what he government says is legal. Why not live by ALL of the commitments and not pick and choose your favorites?
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2/28/11 11:28 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
I think it would be fair to say in summary that any standard which would exclude the Lord Jesus from membership at your church is probably ill-advised. [Insert Acts Pun Here]
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2/28/11 11:45 am


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Post Re: My call on the matter? roughridercog
Dave Dorsey wrote:
roughridercog wrote:
I would not take them as members.

If you found you had taken someone in as a member who privately enjoyed liberty in this area, in accordance with the admonitions of Romans 14, would you disfellowship them?


I would visit them privately. I would explain to them that until this ceased, they could not serve in leadership in the church. I place no heavier requirements on them than anyone else.
If this became a public problem, one that would bring reproach upon the church (public intoxication, etc) I would visit them next with a couple of faithful members who cared for their soul with the purpose of correction and exhortation. Again they would not be allowed to serve in any leadership position lest it bring reproach on the church.
If it continued, I would have to disfellowship them. Thankfully, I've never had to take it to this point in 35 years of ministry. But I have had to go to stage 2 and remove them from their offices.
Honestly, it depends on the Spirit and attitude of the correction. It must be done with all compassion. But I remain true to the teachings of the church. If they want to attend, I have no problem with that. But membership must have personal responsibility.
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2/28/11 11:56 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
Edit: I'm sorry, I responded to your post without fully understanding it. I now see the majority of your post was referring to a response to an incident of public intoxication, and on that matter I fully agree with you.

To the rest, it is certainly your right to choose whom would serve in leadership with you, although I wonder why you would allow them to remain members if you would not accept them to begin with. I would note that the requirements you place on them are heavier than the requirements of both scripture and the Lord. You are disallowing them to serve in leadership based upon liberty they enjoy in the Lord in an area in which liberty is completely biblically permissible.

I would say, again, as a final note that the Lord Jesus would not be permitted to serve in leadership at your church and I would humbly suggest with all due respect that that should give you significant pause.
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2/28/11 12:05 pm


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Post krista
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Krista is right.

Grouping caffeine and Budweiser is idiotic.

There are many people in jail for downing a 12 pack and plowing into a family of four. There are none in jail for downing too many Starbucks.

Even the govt sees a difference - but some posters on here can't.

Very sad.


How bout that....we agree on something. It's moronic and shameful what some of thses guys are doing and advocating. Some should turn in their license and some just need a good time at an altar.

I hope this never happens, but it would change their minds if they ever had to deal directly with some of the circumstance that comes from alcohol consumption. I have stated this before, but no one on this board can tell me anything about alcohol. Even moderate use. I know...I have seen it. I have seen how moderate use grows and destroys those who were simply "enjoying" a drink after work or at a party. None of those who have suffered tragedy started out as drunkards. They started with moderate use and it over-took them because it is a trap. And those who teach moderate use who stand behind a pulpit should be drawn and quartered. I may get banned but you guys are MORONS. Some how we have missed something in all this about what the Bible says. There is no way that our Lord would ever condone something as violent and wicked as alcohol.

This is an easy one....don't join if you don't like the rules. And get out if you don't like it....simple. Laughing
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2/28/11 12:15 pm


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Post Well Curtis Lowe II
krista wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Krista is right.

Grouping caffeine and Budweiser is idiotic.

There are many people in jail for downing a 12 pack and plowing into a family of four. There are none in jail for downing too many Starbucks.

Even the govt sees a difference - but some posters on here can't.

Very sad.


How bout that....we agree on something. It's moronic and shameful what some of thses guys are doing and advocating. Some should turn in their license and some just need a good time at an altar.

I hope this never happens, but it would change their minds if they ever had to deal directly with some of the circumstance that comes from alcohol consumption. I have stated this before, but no one on this board can tell me anything about alcohol. Even moderate use. I know...I have seen it. I have seen how moderate use grows and destroys those who were simply "enjoying" a drink after work or at a party. None of those who have suffered tragedy started out as drunkards. They started with moderate use and it over-took them because it is a trap. And those who teach moderate use who stand behind a pulpit should be drawn and quartered. I may get banned but you guys are MORONS. Some how we have missed something in all this about what the Bible says. There is no way that our Lord would ever condone something as violent and wicked as alcohol.

This is an easy one....don't join if you don't like the rules. And get out if you don't like it....simple. Laughing



I wonder if more lives have been destroyed by moderate alcohol use or by arrogant self righteous mean spirited "Christians"?
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2/28/11 12:35 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Krista is right.

Grouping caffeine and Budweiser is idiotic.

There are many people in jail for downing a 12 pack and plowing into a family of four. There are none in jail for downing too many Starbucks.

Even the govt sees a difference - but some posters on here can't.

Very sad.


That has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING. The Practical Commitments of the Church of God is not based on what send you to jail. Abortion is legal. Smoking is legal. Alcohol is legal. Gambling is legal...in some places. This list is LONG. It is AGAINST the Practical Commitments to partake of habit forming substances. PERIOD. Caffeine is a habit forming substance. Many people are addicted to it.

The point is, you can't enforce ONE commitment and ignore the others....although we do. The point is not what sends you to jail. The commitments are not based on what he government says is legal. Why not live by ALL of the commitments and not pick and choose your favorites?


We disagree.

I'm not addicted to caffeine or alcohol - so neither is habit forming for me.

So, by your legalistic standards, both are ok for me.

But one could send me to jail - while the govt approves of many vices nowadays - even they still have laws against drinking.

The church should lead the way - not follow.
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2/28/11 12:54 pm


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Post yes Scooter
Yes, but no drunkard. Acts Enthusiast
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2/28/11 12:58 pm


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Post Eddie Robbins
Quote:
I'm not addicted to caffeine or alcohol - so neither is habit forming for me.


The Practical Commitments were not written just for you. They are written for every member and prospective member of the COG. Are wanting to pick and choose which are OK based on what is best for YOU?

I'm legalistic? I've never been called that before.

Laughing
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2/28/11 1:01 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Quote:
I'm not addicted to caffeine or alcohol - so neither is habit forming for me.


The Practical Commitments were not written just for you. They are written for every member and prospective member of the COG. Are wanting to pick and choose which are OK based on what is best for YOU?

I'm legalistic? I've never been called that before.

Laughing


You are legalistic to your dogma - you and I both know it.

Caffeine and eating right - those are your hot buttons causing you to weigh in on them every time.

I just want you to wake up and smell the coffee on alcohol - it SHOULD matter where the COG stands on it - or any church.
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Post Eddie Robbins
Please go back in this thread and show me where I said anything about weight. I mentioned caffeine and I mentioned disrespecting our leaders. You failed to get the point. My point is that we are legalistic on some commitments and ignore others regardless of what they are. I am only suggesting a balance. I am TOTALLY in favor of being against alcohol and tobacco. But, I also would like to see somebody say something to these pastors on Facebook telling jokes about Obama and showing a disrespect for leadership when it is also against the Practical Commitments. Weight? YOU brought that up. Acts-pert Poster
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2/28/11 1:22 pm


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Post Re: Well krista
Curtis Lowe II wrote:
krista wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Krista is right.

Grouping caffeine and Budweiser is idiotic.

There are many people in jail for downing a 12 pack and plowing into a family of four. There are none in jail for downing too many Starbucks.

Even the govt sees a difference - but some posters on here can't.

Very sad.


How bout that....we agree on something. It's moronic and shameful what some of thses guys are doing and advocating. Some should turn in their license and some just need a good time at an altar.

I hope this never happens, but it would change their minds if they ever had to deal directly with some of the circumstance that comes from alcohol consumption. I have stated this before, but no one on this board can tell me anything about alcohol. Even moderate use. I know...I have seen it. I have seen how moderate use grows and destroys those who were simply "enjoying" a drink after work or at a party. None of those who have suffered tragedy started out as drunkards. They started with moderate use and it over-took them because it is a trap. And those who teach moderate use who stand behind a pulpit should be drawn and quartered. I may get banned but you guys are MORONS. Some how we have missed something in all this about what the Bible says. There is no way that our Lord would ever condone something as violent and wicked as alcohol.

This is an easy one....don't join if you don't like the rules. And get out if you don't like it....simple. Laughing



I wonder if more lives have been destroyed by moderate alcohol use or by arrogant self righteous mean spirited "Christians"?


Curtis, it's just my style to try to convey a point. Most of what I say is just an expression used for the passion of which I speak. Of course no one is a moron or needs "drawn and quartered". But I do believe that those in the COG with credentials that teach moderate use of alcohol should leave or have their credentials revoked. That is my opinion, just as you have you opinion.

And for the record....millions of people's lives have been destroyed because of moderate use of alcohol because it was a trap.
I would hate to think that because of my adovating moderate use of alcohol that one person fell in that trap. These guys who do so are ir-responcible and should be tarred and feathered. Laughing Laughing
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2/28/11 1:25 pm


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Post Nature Boy Florida
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Please go back in this thread and show me where I said anything about weight. I mentioned caffeine and I mentioned disrespecting our leaders. You failed to get the point. My point is that we are legalistic on some commitments and ignore others regardless of what they are. I am only suggesting a balance. I am TOTALLY in favor of being against alcohol and tobacco. But, I also would like to see somebody say something to these pastors on Facebook telling jokes about Obama and showing a disrespect for leadership when it is also against the Practical Commitments. Weight? YOU brought that up.


My bad - you never mentioned weight. As if Eddie Robbins and weight don't go together. Geez Louise.
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2/28/11 1:27 pm


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Post krista
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Please go back in this thread and show me where I said anything about weight. I mentioned caffeine and I mentioned disrespecting our leaders. You failed to get the point. My point is that we are legalistic on some commitments and ignore others regardless of what they are. I am only suggesting a balance. I am TOTALLY in favor of being against alcohol and tobacco. But, I also would like to see somebody say something to these pastors on Facebook telling jokes about Obama and showing a disrespect for leadership when it is also against the Practical Commitments. Weight? YOU brought that up.


My bad - you never mentioned weight. As if Eddie Robbins and weight don't go together. Geez Louise.


If we tag-team NB, we could do a lot of damage around here!! TAG...you're in!! Laughing Laughing
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2/28/11 1:29 pm


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Post Re: My call on the matter? macgulley
roughridercog wrote:
I would not take them as members.


My understanding was that doctrinal commitments are tests of membership eligibility but practical commitments are not. Am I mistaken on that or does the pastor have the authority to add restrictions?
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2/28/11 1:44 pm


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Post Re: My call on the matter? roughridercog
macgulley wrote:
roughridercog wrote:
I would not take them as members.


My understanding was that doctrinal commitments are tests of membership eligibility but practical commitments are not. Am I mistaken on that or does the pastor have the authority to add restrictions?


Does the Minutes specifically say the practical commitments are not tests of membership eligibility?
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2/28/11 1:49 pm


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Post steel
So let me get this straight for those that would take in members that drink alcohol, where do you draw the line?

For those that wouldn't take them in if they drink alcohol, then does that mean that if they take Nyquil or many of the cough and cold medicines out there you wouldn't take them in either? And before someone says that is not the same alcohol, Yes it is. In fact Nyquil has more alcohol in it than some alcoholic drinks.

For those that consider it a sin and they would go to hell. Would you take in gossipers, liers, people who are having abortions, rapists, murderers, people who commit gluttony, those who sow discord?
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2/28/11 2:09 pm


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Post Eduardo Nieves
steel wrote:
So let me get this straight for those that would take in members that drink alcohol, where do you draw the line?

For those that wouldn't take them in if they drink alcohol, then does that mean that if they take Nyquil or many of the cough and cold medicines out there you wouldn't take them in either? And before someone says that is not the same alcohol, Yes it is. In fact Nyquil has more alcohol in it than some alcoholic drinks.

For those that consider it a sin and they would go to hell. Would you take in gossipers, liers, people who are having abortions, rapists, murderers, people who commit gluttony, those who sow discord?


I would not take them in if they drank Nyquil to get drunk off it it. I wouldn't if they drank Listerine either.
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Post macgulley
steel wrote:
So let me get this straight for those that would take in members that drink alcohol, where do you draw the line?



The better question is who gave you the pen with which to draw the line?
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2/28/11 4:08 pm


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Post krista
steel wrote:
So let me get this straight for those that would take in members that drink alcohol, where do you draw the line?

For those that wouldn't take them in if they drink alcohol, then does that mean that if they take Nyquil or many of the cough and cold medicines out there you wouldn't take them in either? And before someone says that is not the same alcohol, Yes it is. In fact Nyquil has more alcohol in it than some alcoholic drinks.

For those that consider it a sin and they would go to hell. Would you take in gossipers, liers, people who are having abortions, rapists, murderers, people who commit gluttony, those who sow discord?


This is the same song just a different singer. You have to really question a persons intelligence that makes this argument and just doesn't get it.
SINNERS used to make this same argument. Now we have "Christians" using it. Wake up man, get off the Nyquil already!
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2/28/11 4:22 pm


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