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Would you let some who drinks join your church?
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Post krista
Link wrote:
krista wrote:
It's kind of like joining the Boy Scouts. They have a creed for their purposes. If you don't like that creed...you don't have to join. It would be like joining in with the Catholic Church and then wanting them to change their doctrine because we don't like it. This is in place because our forefathers saw what the Church would be like if drinking alcohol was a part of the Church. If you don't like it...it's simple....don't join. If you don't like the "rules", there are other denominations that will take you in.........simple!


So if it's broke, don't fix it?

Where did Christ tell the church to divide into denominations?

Didn't He warn the scribes and Pharisees of His day that they bound heavy burdens and lay them on men's shoulders. Christ has rules for His own assembly. Separating from other brethren over man-made rules is creating division the Lord has not authorized.


The minute man gets his hands on it it is denominationalized. It isn't even living in reality to think we can live totally abstaining from man's take on the Word of God. Even non-denominational churches teach a dogma, doctrine of some type. If you started a Church totally away from any denomination, the moment you got your hands on it is has some type of doctrine, which makes you organized and separate from other who teach differently. That makes you no different than an organized denomination.

Our denomination has decided to abstain from alcohol for it's members. It is a line we don't cross, because the moment you allow it, it opens up a whole world of evil possibilities that drinking brings with it.
Nothing good comes from alcohol. It is a trap and yet we have Pastors of our denomination who condone it. Medical facilities and drug and alcohol rehabilitation hospitals are full, yet we have this nonsence...It is stupid, wreckless for any Pastor to condone it.
It is simple. If you don't like it, go some place else...simple!
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2/27/11 4:22 pm


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Post Cojak
I really wish we did not have to have this discussion. But we have strong minds going both ways.

I know old man LC is castigated (is that a word, or the wrong word) for quoting that part of our teachings, or what ever they are called now. I quit trying to keep up. But facts are, HE IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

I am sorry, but I forget the commenter who said many folk are addicted to mind and mood altering drugs. He or she is correct. When I was a smoker I used the fact that a cigarette was better for me than a pill for stress. I said the same for Beer, since it is from 'natures' products.

I cannot see a sin in the weekend or evening beer or the nightly glass of wine for the blood. But I have a problem with accepting members into the COG who are drinking a few beers at the beach, in the back yard or living room. I will NOT say it is absolutely wrong since we do accept many 'exceptions' to the rule.

I now reference the Minute quote by LC
along with the allowing ministers to pastor without COG license or men with three wives to pastor. WE MAKE EXCEPTIONS IN THE COG.

So Clint, why does this bother me, danged if I know!!!
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2/27/11 4:51 pm


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Post Re: Forest Gumps mamma Cojak
famousflavius wrote:
Forest Gump said that his mamma always told him, Stupid is as stupid does.

If you keep liqueur in your home, its like having a pet rattlesnake.


For an alcholic, you could be right. But then I am familiar with alcoholics, they will drink you nyquil, shaving lotion, vanilla flavoring and will mix th rubbing alcohol and drink it. So if they are gonna get snake bit, You's better remove ALL temptation.

But for families without an alcoholic living there you are wrong. Folks kept moonshine by the quart (NOT MY FAMILY) in years past for many a malady without anyone getting snake bit.
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2/27/11 4:57 pm


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Post krista
Cojak wrote:
I really wish we did not have to have this discussion. But we have strong minds going both ways.

I know old man LC is castigated (is that a word, or the wrong word) for quoting that part of our teachings, or what ever they are called now. I quit trying to keep up. But facts are, HE IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

I am sorry, but I forget the commenter who said many folk are addicted to mind and mood altering drugs. He or she is correct. When I was a smoker I used the fact that a cigarette was better for me than a pill for stress. I said the same for Beer, since it is from 'natures' products.

I cannot see a sin in the weekend or evening beer or the nightly glass of wine for the blood. But I have a problem with accepting members into the COG who are drinking a few beers at the beach, in the back yard or living room. I will NOT say it is absolutely wrong since we do accept many 'exceptions' to the rule.

I now reference the Minute quote by LC
along with the allowing ministers to pastor without COG license or men with three wives to pastor. WE MAKE EXCEPTIONS IN THE COG.

So Clint, why does this bother me, danged if I know!!!


You know cojak...You either just had a drink or you need one because I read your post several times and it's pretty incoherent.
COG minutes aside for a minute. Just about the time you group Nyquil....coffee.....or whatever with alcohol then you have the disturbing truth that probably none of those things made a man run a stop sign and kill a family of 4 because he was drinking. If you think caffine is no different than alcohol, I have never heard one time a man beat his kid to death from being under the influence of Caffine. So either wake up...or go to sleep. Which ever one applies to you. Laughing Laughing Laughing
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2/27/11 5:28 pm


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Post Krista said: Cojak
You know cojak...You either just had a drink or you need one

Unquote

You are probably right.

Cause I read it and don't see a problem. Never said a person would run a stop sign by drinking coffee. I didn't say it, but it is habit forming.

You might run a stop sign if you drank a couple bottles of Nyquil I don't know.

I would venture to say I have as much or more personal experience with Alcohol addiction than you have. With the affects of alcohol on a family. The divorces, the loss of a million dollars, tractors equipment etc.

BUT, since I need a drink, I will go and get one after I say I have never defended drunks. I have only agreed with my 'dear friend' LC and his quote from our COG minutes, and he is right.
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Last edited by Cojak on 2/27/11 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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2/27/11 5:44 pm


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Post steel
Nyquil has more alcohol in it than some alcoholic drinks do. So if we are going to abstain from alcohol then we need to abstain from Nyquil as well not to mention some other medicines that are out there. Golf Cart Mafia Associate
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2/27/11 7:19 pm


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Post Link
krista wrote:
Medical facilities and drug and alcohol rehabilitation hospitals are full, yet we have this nonsence...It is stupid, wreckless for any Pastor to condone it.


Pastor with a capital P refers to the One who turned water into wine, and told His disciples to drink of the fruit of the vine.

If God condones it, how can you say that a pastor who condones is acting stupidly or recklessly. God gave man wine to make his heart merry. He gave Israelites commands for tithing that involved drinking wine or strong drink.
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Last edited by Link on 2/27/11 9:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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2/27/11 8:42 pm


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Post My call on the matter? roughridercog
I would not take them as members. I respect their rights to their beliefs, but I expect the same respect in return.
Many Acts posters do not believe in total abstinence from alcoholic beverages. That's you're right, but don't put me down because I see no benefit from it even in moderation.
The stand taken by the Church of God is abstinence. If I didn't agree with it, I wouldn't be part of it.
But at the same time, why would I ask someone to join a movement or denomination when they admittedly do not agree with it? For their tithes? For their names of the membership? So I can be a "cool and modern" pastor?
Sorry, I just don't see me doing it.
I think that abstinence from alcohol is right. I see no spiritual benefit from drinking even in moderation. I do not put anyone down who disagrees with me nor will I admit them into membership if they cannot accept it?
Does that make me a bad pastor or does it make me a pastor with integrity?

I choose to let God judge me.
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2/27/11 9:02 pm


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Post I truly appreciate Curtis Lowe II
all of your thoughts and opinions. I really do respect each position taken. I agree that abstinence is the best and safest way to go. I understand why the COG has chosen abstinence as its policy. But I must admit that it is difficult to explain to a new Christian why the COG requires them to totally abstain from alcohol to be a member of our organization but it would seem that the scripture does not require total abstinance to be a member of the body of Christ.
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2/27/11 9:43 pm


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Post Re: I truly appreciate Link
Lord Chancellor wrote:

I believe our own General Overseer also stated recently that on a trip to a foreign country, he had alcoholic wine for communion.


If the COG held to transubstantiation, that wouldn't be a problem. Consubstantiation would be a problem.
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2/28/11 6:41 am


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Post Pastors Friend
Lord Chancellor wrote:
Link wrote:
Lord Chancellor wrote:

Caffeine is a habit-forming and mood-altering chemical substance and it is an addictive chemical substance.


One could say the same about glucose, which is what our body turns carbs into.


Ok.

The Minutes still say what they say, though.

We are to abstain from all habit-forming, mood-altering, chemical substances and addictive substances.


Does that include Paxil, Zoloft etc?
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2/28/11 8:13 am


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Post my opinion wayne
Most people we bring in as members are not perfect people. They have their issues and unless something happens to bring their secrets out, we will never know about it.
Sanctification is a process and last time I checked we are all still working through it. If these folks agree to work to overcome this issue, then I say admit them. But, if they are truly not willing to abide by this committment, I don't see why they would want to join.
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2/28/11 8:34 am


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Post I have never drank alcohol Randy Johnson
and never will, but I must be intellectually honest and admit that Scripture does not teach total abstinence for all people at all times. It simply is not there in Scripture to that degree. It is taught for some people at some times when they are performing certain functions (such as sitting in judgment that requires wisdom, as a king would -or- approaching the altar of the Lord to present gifts and sacrifices in worship) but the strongest teaching that you can legitimately support from Scripture (without twisting it) that applies to all people at all times is the admonition against drunkenness.

Total abstinence is a personal conviction for me, in addition to the fact that I think alcohol just tastes rotten, and I can't understand why anyone would bother wanting to drink alcohol if not to get drunk. However, if I were to lay down a law and say that Scripture commands total abstinence for all people at all times, I would be in error and guilty of adding to Scripture something that it does not teach. I have no disgreement with those who can lists reasons against drinking alcohol, but that is a different matter from honestly stating what the Scriptures clearly teach.

Just as the only 100% prevention for STDs and unwanted pregnancy is total abstinence from sexual relations, the only 100% prevention of drunkenness is total abstinence from alcohol.
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2/28/11 8:44 am


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Post Eddie Robbins
I don't envy church leaders concerning this subject. The reason is that if you hold me to this particular Practical Commitment, I will point out to you ALL of the others that the members are breaking and you do nothing about it. In fact, some of them, we just laugh at. The bottom line is, in the COG, we have a priority list when it comes to the Practical Commitments. When it comes to alcohol, it states that "Therefore, a Christian must totally abstain from all alcoholic beverages and other habit-forming and mood-altering chemical substances....."

It doesn't even say COG members, it says "Christians." Also, as has been mentioned before, caffeine is habit-forming, yet, we serve it at church.

My favorite is this one: "....hold our leaders in respect and pray for them..."

You wouldn't believe the things I read on the internet by COG pastors blasting the leaders of this country with NO respect. No mention of praying for them. It is embarrassing to red some of the things I have read by pastors. It is OK to hold them responsible and disagree with policies but if you are going to hold your members to "no alcohol" you MUST also abide by the others. And, we don't. This is the problem.


Last edited by Eddie Robbins on 2/28/11 1:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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2/28/11 9:06 am


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Post Re: My call on the matter? Dave Dorsey
roughridercog wrote:
I would not take them as members.

If you found you had taken someone in as a member who privately enjoyed liberty in this area, in accordance with the admonitions of Romans 14, would you disfellowship them?
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2/28/11 9:09 am


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Post Daniel Rushing
Peter Zefo wrote:
The real question is "would you accept their tithes?"


BAM!! Shocked
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2/28/11 9:15 am


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Post Eduardo Nieves
No, I wouldn't do it.
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Post Nature Boy Florida
Krista is right.

Grouping caffeine and Budweiser is idiotic.

There are many people in jail for downing a 12 pack and plowing into a family of four. There are none in jail for downing too many Starbucks.

Even the govt sees a difference - but some posters on here can't.

Very sad.
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Post Re: My call on the matter? John Hughes
roughridercog wrote:
I would not take them as members. I respect their rights to their beliefs, but I expect the same respect in return.
Many Acts posters do not believe in total abstinence from alcoholic beverages. That's you're right, but don't put me down because I see no benefit from it even in moderation.
The stand taken by the Church of God is abstinence. If I didn't agree with it, I wouldn't be part of it.
But at the same time, why would I ask someone to join a movement or denomination when they admittedly do not agree with it? For their tithes? For their names of the membership? So I can be a "cool and modern" pastor?
Sorry, I just don't see me doing it.
I think that abstinence from alcohol is right. I see no spiritual benefit from drinking even in moderation. I do not put anyone down who disagrees with me nor will I admit them into membership if they cannot accept it?
Does that make me a bad pastor or does it make me a pastor with integrity?

I choose to let God judge me.


Not so sure it makes you a pastor with integrity because you tow the company line. Years ago I struggled with receiving women members who wore make up, jewelery, and pants. I also struggled with people who drank a beer, wine or spirits in the privacy of their own home or at a resturant yet they were Christian people. As I said I struggled for years with the emphasis of the COG teachings. Some on this board have stated that if you don't like it (the COG) leave it! Yeah...thats the way to keep the blood line pure Smile I chose to spend a year reading nothing but my Bible and spent much time in prayer. I fasted for a 28 day period, a 14 day period and a 21 day period during that year. After that year passed I felt that God answered me with these words....God speaking to me.."If I have written their names in the Lamb's Book of Life....Do not forbid or be afraid to write their names in your membership book!"

We all know that abusing alcohol or any other substance including food will kill you. Alcohol is not an issue with me as I do not abuse it. Historically Alcohol....in moderation has been a good thing. Modern science proves it is beneficial but again...too much is harmful. That is why we are to each work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. The day of look alike church members is far past, and the day of pastoral dictatorships is behind us.....I hope.
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2/28/11 11:14 am


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Post John Cojak
Didn't we all struggle with that.

Quote:. Years ago I struggled with receiving women members who wore make up, jewelery, and pants. Unquote

Of course back then in Missouri and NC the drinking was never brought up. Just assumed someone 'JUST MIGHT' have some bourbon around for medicine.
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2/28/11 11:21 am


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