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Do you go to hell for not hearing the gospel?
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Post Eddie Robbins
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So Eddie, if a pedophile who murdered 100 children died 10 minutes after the Cross, do you think he should walk into heaven because he never had an opportunity to hear the Gospel? Or do you he should be judged for the sins he committed?


God is the judge. Maybe the pedophile was mentally deranged and not responsible for his actions. Hypothetical with a hypothetical. What about the guy who did EVERYTHING he knew to do to seek after God but just didn't know about the cross of Christ that happened 10 minutes before he died? I think you know my point, You're a pretty smart guy. Very Happy
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12/29/10 5:48 pm


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Post Larry Wiley
First let me explain that I am a simple man with a simple mind. The only way I can explain this issue is to use the Bible as I understand it. So here I go.

"Whosoever calls on the Name of the Lord shall be saved". Remember I am simple so my simple mind understands the word "saved" to mean rescued.

Furthermore with my simple thinking I believe babies or young children will not be judged as adults because they do not have the mind to know to call on the name of Jesus. In my simple mind I would think those who are mentally challenged would be the same as a small child.

If I am wrong and everyone who goes to heaven that has never heard the Gospel then I would agree with Doyle. Those poor missionaries are sacrificing in vain.

I simply believe the Bible.
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12/29/10 6:45 pm


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Post Eddie Robbins
Missionaries do WAY more than try to get people saved. They are doing the work of Jesus. Feeding the poor. Helping the needy. Comforting the sick. Adopt the orphans.

My daughter spent 9 months in Cambodia holding the babies who were dying with AIDS so they didn't have to be on the floor all day.

These are missionaries. Again, we go back to the numbers mentality. It's like we have a need to see how many "saved" we can put on reports.

Wake up, people.
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12/29/10 6:51 pm


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Post I think its a totally ridiculous thought c6thplayer1
If thats the case then a child born to a tribe in the middle of nowhere that dies in his/her 20's and never had the opportunity to hear about Christ goes to hell.

Then why would God create this person to begin with if his/her destiny is to be nothing more than hell?
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12/29/10 7:37 pm


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Post Still waiting on an answer...When did Paul die? caseyleejones
Unless I missed something, I still have not seen an answer to that vital question....

In response to others.....

We preach the gospel because we are commanded too. Beyond that is drawing a conclusion as to why God told us to do something. God tells us to do a variety of things that really don't make sense.

Eddie is correct, if the only thing missionaries do is preach the gospel, then I would say they are missing most of the gospel.

So, when did Paul die? Did it happen at age 12...as we were all told in pentecostal circles that that was the age of accountability.

When did Paul die spiritually?
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12/29/10 8:26 pm


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Post Being simple Cojak
I I am a simple man. I cannot even comprehend thinking for God. I cannot even imagine what logic God uses, because His logic may very well not be my logic.

The idea of becoming a Christian is to be a better person, enjoy the intimate love of the Master, even in a remote jungle village. Christ makes even the savage a better person, so sure, the missionary wants to reach this guy or gal. Why would you not want a person to be able to feel the love and blessings of the Father thru the Son? We try to apply Caucasian, western modern life thinking to every culture in this vast world. Just today riding down the road, I suggested to my wife, God will judge, taking into account all variables and using intelligence we cannot even imagine, populating heaven. Not my business to decide for him, what happens to the Muslim who has never ‘really’ heard about Jesus. Is hearing the name Jesus, the same as KNOWING about Him?

BTW.. we made it to Florida today. Some of you guys must have been ‘not truthful’ about the weather down here. It was in the 70’s and beautiful sunshine when we arrived. You trying to keep us snow birds out?
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12/29/10 8:39 pm


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Post Re: I think its a totally ridiculous thought MFWKC
c6thplayer1 wrote:
If thats the case then a child born to a tribe in the middle of nowhere that dies in his/her 20's and never had the opportunity to hear about Christ goes to hell.

Then why would God create this person to begin with if his/her destiny is to be nothing more than hell?



Romans 9:19-24 esv

19You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

What about the people in the Old Testament that God ordered to be wiped out?

Why do we assume all are from God Matthew 13:24-30

I don't know the answers either, but I don't think it is cut and dry.

All we are told to do is sow the gospel and go into all the world. That is what we will be judged on. And, of course, do unto the least of these.
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12/29/10 10:22 pm


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Post Ok guys here is the deal Larry Wiley
All I can speak for it the Bible.

"Whosoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved".

Anything more than that I do not know. I do not know how or why someone who had never had the opportunity to hear the Gospel would go to hell, but I will leave that up to the Lord.

I remember my Dad preached the funeral of a friend who to his knowledge ever acknowledged the Lord. My brother, a young minister then, asked Dad about the man. Daddy said; "He is in the hands of a merciful God".

I would say anyone who has never heard the Gospel is in the hands of a "merciful God".
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12/30/10 9:18 am


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Post Randy Johnson
[quote="Nick Park"]
Eddie Robbins wrote:
Quote:
What is sin?

Transgression against the laws of God.


Actually, I believe that transgression against the laws of God is the fruit of sin rather than the root of sin.

If the word translated sin comes from another word which means to miss the mark or to miss the target, then the defect lies within the source of the shot and not just in where it lands.

Dr. Richard Dobbins, a psychologist and ordained minister in the Assemblies of God, once defined sin as:

"a spiritual force that emanates from Lucifer, and impacts the physical realm in the human mind."

What this means is, that the behaviors we normally associate and define as sin, are in reality the fruits of sin, after it has conceived and grown in the human mind after being joined to human desires.

That is, "after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death." James 1:15

That is how Paul could be alive before his knowledge of the law came. Sin was in the world, but sin is not taken into account where there is no law. The law did not create sin, but it brought to life a consciousness of sin based on the desires already formulating in the human mind.

"I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead."

Sin being "dead" does not mean sin does not exist, any more than a person being dead means that the person does not exist (to be absent from the body [dead] is to be present with the Lord [alive]). It means that sin exists outside of me in its basic form but has not yet been joined to my desires to conceive and produce its fruit of transgression against God's laws.

For example, before I experienced puberty at around age 13, I never had sexual thoughts or desires for girls, but right about the time I hit 13 all that changed, and probably like multitudes of guys before me who wanted to serve God faithfully, I was so agitated by my thoughts and desires that I prayed that God would take away my sexuality - a prayer I am now glad He did not answer since I have four wonderful children.

"To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law." Romans 5:13

Sin must be fought at the level of thought to achieve real victory!

Jesus came to set us free from:

1. The Power of Sin
2. The Practice of Sin
3. The Penalty of Sin

Jesus said that everyone who sins is a slave to sin; and a slave has no permanent place in the family. But whom the Son sets free, is free indeed!

We are not called to preach the Law of Moses, we are called to preach the good news of Jesus Christ.
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12/30/10 10:32 am


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Post MFWKC
While I want to believe that those who do not hear are okay, scripture really doesn't back that up.

Justification by death?

Scripture points to the default location being hell.

I would like to believe that those who CAN NOT make the choice being okay, but that may not be the case.

The closest scripture we have for this is in 2 Samuel 12:23. David says I can not bring him back, but will go to him. Referencing his child that died.

I guess in general I do believe those CAN NOT make the choice are okay (small children, mentally handicapped).

Anyone else is destined for hell without accepting Jesus.

According to Romans 1 and other scriptures, we are destined for Hell for rejecting God. We are born with a deceitful, God hating heart.

We are all "Born that way". We must be born again.

David Platt in the book "Radical" discusses some of this.
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12/30/10 11:38 am


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Post Larry Wiley
Eddie I well remember the "fear of hell days".

But when I got saved I felt a very strong conviction. I was not thinking of hell I was thinking of my condition and His love for me.

I was not at church in fact there was no Christians around. I had just laid down on the bed to sleep and the Lord spoke to me. He said; "Larry Wiley this is your day". I have no idea how I knew it was Him or how I knew what He meant but I did.

Since that night, I have not been the same. I was truly "Born Again". I became a "New Creature", perfect no, forgiven, yes.

Now aint God good.
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12/30/10 12:14 pm


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Post Larry Wiley
Eddie I well remember the "fear of hell days".

But when I got saved I felt a very strong conviction. I was not thinking of hell I was thinking of my condition and His love for me.

I was not at church in fact there was no Christians around. I had just laid down on the bed to sleep and the Lord spoke to me. He said; "Larry Wiley this is your day". I have no idea how I knew it was Him or how I knew what He meant but I did.

Since that night, I have not been the same. I was truly "Born Again". I became a "New Creature", perfect no, forgiven, yes.

Now aint God good.
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12/30/10 12:14 pm


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Post Larry Wiley
Eddie I well remember the "fear of hell days".

But when I got saved I felt a very strong conviction. I was not thinking of hell I was thinking of my condition and His love for me.

I was not at church in fact there was no Christians around. I had just laid down on the bed to sleep and the Lord spoke to me. He said; "Larry Wiley this is your day". I have no idea how I knew it was Him or how I knew what He meant but I did.

Since that night, I have not been the same. I was truly "Born Again". I became a "New Creature", perfect no, forgiven, yes.

Now aint God good.
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12/30/10 12:14 pm


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Post About 50% of what is posted seems to be tradition.... caseyleejones
about 40% are peoples opinions..........
"....the default place is hell..." ??????

10% scripture...this is all give and take about 5%.
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12/30/10 12:27 pm


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Post How about addressing ... caseyleejones
Rom 7:9 KJV For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Then maybe as what someone said....we are trying to grasp the infinite with the finite.
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12/30/10 12:29 pm


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Post MFWKC
This one kind of settle the whole law / ignorance of the law.

Romans 2:12 ESV "For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law"
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12/30/10 12:58 pm


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Post Re: How about addressing ... MFWKC
caseyleejones wrote:
Rom 7:9 KJV For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Then maybe as what someone said....we are trying to grasp the infinite with the finite.


This is Paul's perspective, not God's
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12/30/10 1:02 pm


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Post Whoaaaa!!!!!! caseyleejones
MFWKC wrote:
caseyleejones wrote:
Rom 7:9 KJV For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Then maybe as what someone said....we are trying to grasp the infinite with the finite.


This is Paul's perspective, not God's



So when can we randomly choose what is Gods view and Pauls view? You my friend have opened a can of worms. Confused
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12/30/10 1:16 pm


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Post Re: Whoaaaa!!!!!! MFWKC
caseyleejones wrote:
MFWKC wrote:
caseyleejones wrote:
Rom 7:9 KJV For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Then maybe as what someone said....we are trying to grasp the infinite with the finite.


This is Paul's perspective, not God's



So when can we randomly choose what is Gods view and Pauls view? You my friend have opened a can of worms. Confused


To me it is pretty simple. He said "I".

"Before I knew the law I was alive, but once I learned the law I learned how dead I was."

That is how I read it when I read in context with other scriptures.

But again. Roman 2:12 pretty much settles the discussion for me.
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12/30/10 1:22 pm


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Post Just because you use "I" in a sentence does not me caseyleejones
its your opinion. I just ate a candy bar just now. It was not an opinion...it was a fact.

MWFC, I would entertain your opinion on something but in this case, no.
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12/30/10 1:36 pm


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