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To poster "Isa 58:12": Regarding Galatians
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Post Re: Nothing significant to add Isa 58:12
Mark Ledbetter wrote:
at this time... I just wanted to be the 100th reply.

I am, however, planning to address an issue that is often left out of the debate regarding the use of Torah, probably on a separate post.

Shalom, ya'll!


LOL, LOL, Laughing .... I wanted to be the 100th post Laughing

But Mark, if you have something thats often left out about Torah & it has to do with this thread. Put it here Very Happy , I'm always looking for deeper stuff.

Shalom ya'll LOL, LOL Laughing thats funny, I live in the south Laughing
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Post Re: Nothing significant to add Isa 58:12
Mark Ledbetter wrote:
at this time... I just wanted to be the 100th reply.

I am, however, planning to address an issue that is often left out of the debate regarding the use of Torah, probably on a separate post.

Shalom, ya'll!


"Is it" because many people don't know what Family they have been "grafted" into, or "adopted" into that has Covenants, rules, Laws, etc? That part Very Happy ?

Man, I have a list of "is its" LOL, LOL Laughing
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11/7/10 2:08 pm


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Post Isa 58:12
Does any pastor have a comment on how Paul is not talking about the Torah like it is taught & preached in churches?

Isn't this the whole point of Acts, to dig & uncover Truths on the Bible?
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11/7/10 7:25 pm


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Post Re: P Randy Randy Johnson
Isa 58:12 wrote:

& this is the problem guys, there are many words in the N.T. that have been lost in translation. You will never get the full meaning of Scriptures in the english. You have to go back....


Yeah, that's the same thing the Muslims say about the Q'uran. You can't understand it unless you read it in Arabic. Male cow manure!

This is nothing less than racism in its most basic form.
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11/7/10 9:04 pm


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Post Re: P Randy Isa 58:12
Randy Johnson wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:

& this is the problem guys, there are many words in the N.T. that have been lost in translation. You will never get the full meaning of Scriptures in the english. You have to go back....


Yeah, that's the same thing the Muslims say about the Q'uran. You can't understand it unless you read it in Arabic. Male cow manure!

This is nothing less than racism in its most basic form.


Really pastor? Whats racist? The mis-translation of words in the Bible is racist, really?
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11/7/10 9:25 pm


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Post How about this guys, Gal 3:10 Isa 58:12
For all those who "rely" on the "works" of Torah are under a curse; for it is written (Dt 27:26) "Cursed is everyone who does not "observe" & "obey" all things written in the Book of the Torah."

It is reliance on ones "works" that results in the curse, for then one would have to equal Perfection as Elohim to be saved..... & thats just not going to happen Very Happy

& I know we ALL know Very Happy that no one is "Justifed" by the Torah. For thats not the purpuse of the Torah, its purpose is for Blessings & Well being. The one who is Righteous will live live in them by "Trusting" Very Happy

& I can hear you guys now Laughing The Torah is not based on Trusting, Whosoever does the works of the Torah will live in them Wink . But Paul did say in Rom 3:31: Do we then make "void" the Torah by Faith, (which is Trusting)? G-d forbid, or By no means, we "establish" Torah Very Happy .

This is the the bottom line here, ythis is the soup, the nuts, the whole plate Laughing . What Paul is saying here is that the Torah Stands regardless of ones Trust. The Word of G-d is the Word of G-d whether we believe it our not. Because it doesn't matter what we think, it only matters what He said Very Happy

Shalom
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11/9/10 8:23 pm


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Post Heres another one :) Isa 58:12
Gal 3:5: He "Elohim" that ministers "supplies" you the Spirit & works miracles among you, does he "you" do it by "your"works of the Torah, or by hearing of Faith "Trusting"?

Just as Avraham believed "Trusted" Elohim, it was accounted to him AS Righteousness Very Happy

You see guys, eveybody who Trusts are Avrahams seed, or decendants. & the Scripture says that G-d would Justify the gentiles by Trust, declaring the joyfull report to Avraham in the beginning: ALL gentiles will be Blessed in you.

For this reason those who Trust are Blessed with Avraham, who Trusted.

Of course Avraham showed his Trust with obedience by keeping the Oral Torah Gen 26:5.
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11/10/10 6:14 pm


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Post Isa 58:12
Does anyone have a comment?
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11/11/10 10:20 am


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Post Well guys Isa 58:12
I'm going to stop right here, as to I have nobody comments on anything. But now that everybody here that has read these knows that the Book of Galatians is not talking against Torah.

& with that, will there be some of you that will still say concerning the Law, "Read Galatiatns, Paul is clearly against the Law?"

Just wondering.....
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11/12/10 4:49 pm


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Post I just want to say this, as to its on my mind Isa 58:12
The Troah "echos" Messiah (John 5:46-47) in the Sriptures.

Messiah Y'shua "echos" Torah (Mark 12:14) as to it was the only Word Y'shua preached from.

Both are "echoing" Each Other, as They are One John 1:14.

& somewhere in the middle is the believer, & we stand & bend the knee in reverence to hear G-ds Word.

think about that.....
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Post Re: To Isa 58:12 Isa 58:12
[quote="Tom Sterbens"]
Quote:
One last time...

There are two things you assume in Galatians that you cannot conclude from Galatians.

1 - That the "agitators" (Judaizers) were unsaved (not born again) Pharisees.

2 - That Paul is addressing oral Torah, and/or Pharisaic tradition instead of written Torah.

When asked for textual, interpretive evidence concerning your conclusions about the identity of the agitator/Judaizers, you begin listing everything said about Pharisees from Jesus forward.


What, thats not enough? What was going on with John the Baptist when he saw the pharisees in Matt 3:7 "vipers", not "brethren". & your right, there are multiple verses that agree...

Ok, how about 2 Kings 17:34 says: Unto "this" day they do after the former manners: "they" fear not Adonai, neither do they after their statutes, or after their ordinances, or after the Torah, Law & Commandment which Adonai Commanded the "children of Jacob", who He named "Y'srael". The Family we are grafted into Rom 11:17.

Messiah says "Himself" in the same thing in Matt 23:3-4, will that work for you pastor? Messiah came the 1st time to restore Torah in the earth Matt 6:10. So what do you think Messiah is going to do the 2nd time He comes back? & today? When Messiah comes back, will He leave things the way they are?

What was wrong with anything I put upon Galatians? Or are you stuck on what I have said in the Scriptures of the pharisees?
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Post Hey Tom, or pastors Isa 58:12
Tell me your take on Galatians.
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Post Re: To Isa 58:12 Randy Johnson
[quote="Tom Sterbens"]
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Tom Sterbens wrote:
Quote:
One last time...

There are two things you assume in Galatians that you cannot conclude from Galatians.

1 - That the "agitators" (Judaizers) were unsaved (not born again) Pharisees.

2 - That Paul is addressing oral Torah, and/or Pharisaic tradition instead of written Torah.

When asked for textual, interpretive evidence concerning your conclusions about the identity of the agitator/Judaizers, you begin listing everything said about Pharisees from Jesus forward.


What, thats not enough? What was going on with John the Baptist when he saw the pharisees in Matt 3:7 "vipers", not "brethren". & your right, there are multiple verses that agree...

Ok, how about 2 Kings 17:34 says: Unto "this" day they do after the former manners: "they" fear not Adonai, neither do they after their statutes, or after their ordinances, or after the Torah, Law & Commandment which Adonai Commanded the "children of Jacob", who He named "Y'srael". The Family we are grafted into Rom 11:17.

Messiah says "Himself" in the same thing in Matt 23:3-4, will that work for you pastor? Messiah came the 1st time to restore Torah in the earth Matt 6:10. So what do you think Messiah is going to do the 2nd time He comes back? & today? When Messiah comes back, will He leave things the way they are?

What was wrong with anything I put upon Galatians? Or are you stuck on what I have said in the Scriptures of the pharisees?

The scripture you have cited are excellent references regarding pharisees. But they have nothing to do with Galatians.


The problem Isa, is that you do not know how to rightly divide the Word of Truth, and you prove it every time you comment on a passage of Scripture. You preach a gospel that is no gospel at all and another Jesus from the one Paul preached and the first generation of believers accepted.
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11/15/10 9:14 am


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Post Re: To Isa 58:12 Isa 58:12
[quote="Randy Johnson"]
Tom Sterbens wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Tom Sterbens wrote:
Quote:
One last time...

There are two things you assume in Galatians that you cannot conclude from Galatians.

1 - That the "agitators" (Judaizers) were unsaved (not born again) Pharisees.

2 - That Paul is addressing oral Torah, and/or Pharisaic tradition instead of written Torah.

When asked for textual, interpretive evidence concerning your conclusions about the identity of the agitator/Judaizers, you begin listing everything said about Pharisees from Jesus forward.


What, thats not enough? What was going on with John the Baptist when he saw the pharisees in Matt 3:7 "vipers", not "brethren". & your right, there are multiple verses that agree...

Ok, how about 2 Kings 17:34 says: Unto "this" day they do after the former manners: "they" fear not Adonai, neither do they after their statutes, or after their ordinances, or after the Torah, Law & Commandment which Adonai Commanded the "children of Jacob", who He named "Y'srael". The Family we are grafted into Rom 11:17.

Messiah says "Himself" in the same thing in Matt 23:3-4, will that work for you pastor? Messiah came the 1st time to restore Torah in the earth Matt 6:10. So what do you think Messiah is going to do the 2nd time He comes back? & today? When Messiah comes back, will He leave things the way they are?

What was wrong with anything I put upon Galatians? Or are you stuck on what I have said in the Scriptures of the pharisees?

The scripture you have cited are excellent references regarding pharisees. But they have nothing to do with Galatians.


The problem Isa, is that you do not know how to rightly divide the Word of Truth, and you prove it every time you comment on a passage of Scripture. You preach a gospel that is no gospel at all and another Jesus from the one Paul preached and the first generation of believers accepted.


Thats very interesting p randy that you said I preach another "Jesus". My friend, that has been strong on my mind for you guys. Think about it for a minute, I try to live my life like Y'shua who was a Jewish Rabbi who kept the Sabbath, who kept the Feasts, who kept the Torah, etc....

Christianity doesn't keep the Jewish Foundations like Messiah did. You guys don't keep the Sabbath like Messiah did, don't keep the Feasts like He did, don't keep the Torah like He did, etc..... So who really is preaching "another" Jesus? & our Jewish Rabbi has a gentile (greek) name, does greek things, eats greek foods, keeps greek days of worship, keeps greek holidays, etc.

The Message I have been given is a restoration to what has been lost, the other half of the Book & Faith.... Its Torah which is 2 Tim 3:16. I teach return to Torah, our Creators Ways for His people. Christianity doesn't, so again, who is preaching "another" gospel?

That was all said in love pastor....
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Post Re: To Isa 58:12 Randy Johnson
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Thats very interesting p randy that you said I preach another "Jesus". My friend, that has been strong on my mind for you guys. Think about it for a minute, I try to live my life like Y'shua who was a Jewish Rabbi who kept the Sabbath, who kept the Feasts, who kept the Torah, etc....


Jesus was not a Jewish Rabbi.

Jesus was and is the eternal Son of God, who was with God in the Beginning, and through whom God made all things, both seen and unseen. Jesus was the Word of God made flesh, He was from above, the Jews (just like the Gentiles) are from below.

Jesus was able to call God His Father in a unique and distinct way that no other human being on earth is still able to do, even though we are all sons of God through faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus said to the Jews of His day, "My Father, whom you claim as your God". He also said, "It is written in YOUR Law", He didn't say "My Law", No, He said "YOUR Law", indicating that He was above and before that Law, but voluntarily submitted Himself to it, so that He could deliver us from it.

Isa 58:12 wrote:
Christianity doesn't keep the Jewish Foundations like Messiah did. You guys don't keep the Sabbath like Messiah did, don't keep the Feasts like He did, don't keep the Torah like He did, etc..... So who really is preaching "another" Jesus? & our Jewish Rabbi has a gentile (greek) name, does greek things, eats greek foods, keeps greek days of worship, keeps greek holidays, etc.


In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek.

Isa 58:12 wrote:
The Message I have been given is a restoration to what has been lost, the other half of the Book & Faith.... Its Torah which is 2 Tim 3:16. I teach return to Torah, our Creators Ways for His people. Christianity doesn't, so again, who is preaching "another" gospel?

That was all said in love pastor....


So, if I understand what you are saying, you are telling me that you are not a Christian, correct?
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11/15/10 11:13 pm


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Post Re: To Isa 58:12 Isa 58:12
Randy Johnson wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Thats very interesting p randy that you said I preach another "Jesus". My friend, that has been strong on my mind for you guys. Think about it for a minute, I try to live my life like Y'shua who was a Jewish Rabbi who kept the Sabbath, who kept the Feasts, who kept the Torah, etc....


Jesus was not a Jewish Rabbi.

Jesus was and is the eternal Son of God, who was with God in the Beginning, and through whom God made all things, both seen and unseen. Jesus was the Word of God made flesh, He was from above, the Jews (just like the Gentiles) are from below.

Jesus was able to call God His Father in a unique and distinct way that no other human being on earth is still able to do, even though we are all sons of God through faith in Jesus Christ. Jesus said to the Jews of His day, "My Father, whom you claim as your God". He also said, "It is written in YOUR Law", He didn't say "My Law", No, He said "YOUR Law", indicating that He was above and before that Law, but voluntarily submitted Himself to it, so that He could deliver us from it.

Isa 58:12 wrote:
Christianity doesn't keep the Jewish Foundations like Messiah did. You guys don't keep the Sabbath like Messiah did, don't keep the Feasts like He did, don't keep the Torah like He did, etc..... So who really is preaching "another" Jesus? & our Jewish Rabbi has a gentile (greek) name, does greek things, eats greek foods, keeps greek days of worship, keeps greek holidays, etc.


In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek.

Isa 58:12 wrote:
The Message I have been given is a restoration to what has been lost, the other half of the Book & Faith.... Its Torah which is 2 Tim 3:16. I teach return to Torah, our Creators Ways for His people. Christianity doesn't, so again, who is preaching "another" gospel?

That was all said in love pastor....


So, if I understand what you are saying, you are telling me that you are not a Christian, correct?


& thats your problem pastor, you don't even recognize Messiah was a Jewish Rabbi in the Scriptures. & I don't even want to type them all out for you, you should now this. How sad....

& I call myself a "Christian" in the True meaning of the Word, Christ-like, He was a Jew, not a christian......

& what did you disagree with on Galatians? Maybe you could give me your take on the message of the Book of Galatians.
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Post Re: To Isa 58:12 Randy Johnson
Isa 58:12 wrote:
& thats your problem pastor, you don't even recognize Messiah was a Jewish Rabbi in the Scriptures. & I don't even want to type them all out for you, you should now this. How sad....

& I call myself a "Christian" in the True meaning of the Word, Christ-like, He was a Jew, not a christian......

& what did you disagree with on Galatians? Maybe you could give me your take on the message of the Book of Galatians.


Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian.

Wrong on both counts, Isa.

Jesus was not a Jew OR a Christian. Those are terms that apply to us mortals, not to the eternal, pre-existent, second member of the Godhhead.

Besides, the name Christian was given to the followers of Jesus by their enemies, it was not a name they chose for themselves.
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11/16/10 6:28 am


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Post Re: To Isa 58:12 Isa 58:12
Randy Johnson wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
& thats your problem pastor, you don't even recognize Messiah was a Jewish Rabbi in the Scriptures. & I don't even want to type them all out for you, you should now this. How sad....

& I call myself a "Christian" in the True meaning of the Word, Christ-like, He was a Jew, not a christian......

& what did you disagree with on Galatians? Maybe you could give me your take on the message of the Book of Galatians.


Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian.

Wrong on both counts, Isa.

Jesus was not a Jew OR a Christian. Those are terms that apply to us mortals, not to the eternal, pre-existent, second member of the Godhhead.

Besides, the name Christian was given to the followers of Jesus by their enemies, it was not a name they chose for themselves.


Are you sure p randy? Messiah wasn't a Jew?

How about giving me your take on the Book of Galatians?
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Post Re: To Isa 58:12 Randy Johnson
Isa 58:12 wrote:

Are you sure p randy? Messiah wasn't a Jew?

How about giving me your take on the Book of Galatians?


I'm sick of watching your dog and pony show. My "take" on the book of Galatians has already been stated, and is in agreement with everyone else on this board who holds to sound doctrine (healthy teaching), with the exception of you.

There is nothing more to say.
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11/17/10 10:16 am


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Post Re: To Isa 58:12 Isa 58:12
Randy Johnson wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:

Are you sure p randy? Messiah wasn't a Jew?

How about giving me your take on the Book of Galatians?


I'm sick of watching your dog and pony show. My "take" on the book of Galatians has already been stated, and is in agreement with everyone else on this board who holds to sound doctrine (healthy teaching), with the exception of you.

There is nothing more to say.


Huh, I don't have a dog or a pony..... & I'm sorry pastor, I went back to make sure, but you never said anything on Galatians. So I hope thats not your "healthy teaching" of sound doctrine taht you are in agreement with everybody elses.

I have shown you that the Book of Galatians speaks to the legalism of the "men of G-d" @ that time which was the rabbis, not Torah, the Law of Moshe, which is the Law of Adonai Luke 2:23. & the Truth of what I showed everyone is against the teaching of the "church" which holds Paul (Jewish rabbi) & the Book of Galatians against the Torah.

So what do you do, go along with the way the church has been doing it for ever it seems? Or repent.....
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