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To poster "Isa 58:12": Regarding Galatians
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Post Isa 58:12
Galatians 4:5-7..... verse 5: To redeem them that were under the law (of death) that we might receive the "adoption of sons". 6: & because you "are" sons, G-d has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your "hearts" (Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:10-13=Jn 1:14).

7: Wherefore you are no more a servant, BUT A SON Very Happy ; & "if" a son, then an heir of G-d through Y'shua.

We are "sons" of G-d through Y'shua, & we "do" what our Fathers says.... in His Torah. If not, we are rebellious sons guys
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Post Randy Johnson
Isa 58:12 wrote:
We are "sons" of G-d through Y'shua, & we "do" what our Fathers says.... in His Torah. If not, we are rebellious sons guys


No, we do what He says through the Holy Spirit, who lives within us, right now, today. He speaks to us directly, Spirit to spirit.
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Post Isa 58:12
Randy Johnson wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
We are "sons" of G-d through Y'shua, & we "do" what our Fathers says.... in His Torah. If not, we are rebellious sons guys


No, we do what He says through the Holy Spirit, who lives within us, right now, today. He speaks to us directly, Spirit to spirit.


Does the Spirit do & tell people to do other than what the Father has said P Randy? No, because the Spirit is the "Law" Rom 7:14 & the Spirit is/will guide us into ALL Truth John 16:13. Truth is Torah Deut 32:1-4, Ps 119:160.
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Post Isa 58:12
Lucious J. Bloomingthall wrote:
The Spirit never has told me- not even once- not to eat pork or shrimp and not to wear cotton with linen and not to cut the hair on my temples.


Vecause your not listening, you don't have ears to hear pastor.., Now tell me, are you getting something out of Gal here?
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Post Nature Boy Florida
Lucious J. Bloomingthall wrote:
Dave Dorsey wrote:
How do you reconcile your diet (which I assume you would state as mandatory for all believers -- please correct me if I am wrong) with Acts 10:9-16 and 1 Timothy 4:1-5?

Please try to avoid circular reasoning in your response. (i.e. do not state that these scriptures can not possibly mean what they very obviously mean because of this other scripture which you believe means thus and so)


Are you kidding? That's the whole basis of his theology- that Scripture doesn't say what it precisely and explicitly says.


Agreed. If you disagree then you are not reading his galatians reasoning correctly - which amazingly rarely ever actually quotes verses from Galatians - a seeming contradiction.
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Post Isa 58:12
Lets look @ another misunderstanding in the Book of Galatians in chapter 4, because Paul is continually looked at, and taught as a man who disregarded the Torah. But let’s first look @ some of the things Paul the Jewish pharisee himself said about the Torah, before we go on to the Book of Galatians. These are things we need to keep in the back of our minds of how Sha’ul followed and viewed the Torah before we read Galatians turn in your Bibles to Rom 2:13;

For not the hearers of the Law are just before Elohim, but the “doers” of the Law shall be justified.

There was no N.T. when Paul said that, and if you read the next verse it talks about “gentiles” who don’t have the Law, but keep it by nature. And this can be explained by mans tendency toward natural laws reflect the Laws of Elohim, because they are written on our hearts. Rom 3:31;

Do “we” then make void the Law through Faith? Elohim forbid: yea “we” establish the Torah.

That verse alone should help anyone through Scripture’s & the Galatians Scriptures that seems to teach against the Torah, Law, Covenant and give you a clear understanding of Gal 3:24-25, which speaks of Paul comparing the two Covenants, the one at Sinai and the Avrahamic Covenant. The Torah points out our sins, verse 22, and it’s the Torah that points us to the One who can remove our sins, so the Torah still stands verse 24. Last example of Sha’ul’s own words of keeping Torah in Rom 7:22;

For I delight in the Law, Torah of Elohim after the inward of man. (Ruach HaKodesh, Holy Spirit who will guide you in all Truths, Torah Ps 119:160)

So in these three examples alone we see how Paul followed the Law, Torah, now with that mindset we can start in the Book of Galatians, turn in your Bibles to Gal 4:3;

Even so we, when we were children, were in “bondage” under the “elements” of the world.

The next 2 verses talk about Y’shua, who (you) was made of a woman under the law, and how He came to Redeem us who were under the law and receive us as the Adopted sons of Elohim. Now let’s look at what the law in verse 3 really was, especially now that we know how Paul looked at the Law of Elohim. In verse 3 it talks about children being in bondage to the “elements” of the world.

The Greek word for elements here is Stoicheion which means; elementary rules, principals of the world system, and rudiments of the Jewish “religious” system. Now this wasn’t the Jewish system, or Law of Moshe, the Law of Elohim found in the Torah, it was the religious legalistic rules and regulations that man made (pharisees and sadducees) These religious leaders were called judaizers, and we will get into in a little bit, because that has been misunderstood. But in verse 3 it is mainly talking about a “worldly system” and Glory to Elohim, in verse & Paul says now that we are the sons of Elohim and we are no longer a servant in bondage to a worldly system, but an heir to Elohim through Messiah. Paul in verse 9 gives a statement followed by a question that is the back up of Vs 3;

But now, after that ye have known Elohim, or rather are known of Elohim,

And here’s the question followed by three keys in understanding that Paul is not talking about the Torah, Law here in verse 9;

How turn “ye” again to the “weak” and “beggarly” “elements” whereunto ye desire to be in bondage?

Paul is talking to backsliders here and recognizing that they were following Torah, and he goes on to say to them, that you observe days and months, years, and times, but I am afraid of you lest I have worked in vain. What Paul is saying here is exactly what the children of Y’srael did when they went around the mountain desiring to go back to what they knew and the things they were comfortable with, desiring to be in bondage. He says; “If Elohim has set you free from the bondage of Stoicheion the worldly system why do you desire to go back to the weak and beggarly man made legalistic rules and regulations that put you in bondage?

Paul also is addressing and pointing out in verse’s 10-11 that they are observing days and months, etc, and doing these things tend to make men FEEL! religious, but not necessarily serving Elohim. Another thing that was going on in the Book of Galatians was Paul was talking to the gentiles and his main focus was on the judaizers. The term judaizer has been turned around by the enemy to mean something bad, or anyone who is trying to teach someone about the Torah, Law of Elohim are being legalistic, but let me just tell you what a judiazer really is.
The judiazer’s in the Bible were men who wanted to enforce Jewish circumcision for Salvation and other legalistic rules upon gentiles. They were the “false” brethren who wanted to bring the whole congregation into the bondage of the Law Gal 2:4. The term Judaize out of my Webster’s means; to conform to Jewish customs, beliefs, etc. To bring into “conformity” with Judaism, not force. I like what D. Thomas Lancaster wrote in his book “Restoration” Returning the Torah of G-d to the Disciples of Jesus and I encourage you all to read it, he writes on page 10;

The Conventional definition of a Judaizer: One who “compels” Christians to “Adopt” Jewish practices, such as observance of the Sabbath and Biblical Festivals.

The Biblical definition of a judaizer: One who compels non-Jews to undergo a “ritual” conversion in order to merit Salvation, whereby they are reckoned as Jewish proselytes.

He goes on to say; According to the Biblical definition, I am NOT! a judaizer. I believe in keeping the Law because I’m saved. Nonetheless, that belief makes me, according to the Conventional Definition a Judaizer.

And I have to agree. So we just looked at Col 2 and understand it was man made doctrines that were nailed cross and not the Torah, Law of Moshe. In Galatians we looked at the misunderstanding of Gal 4:3 which after a simple word study know that Gal 4 is talking about a worldly system. Again, not! the Torah of Elohim. Some of you still maybe saying to yourselves, and believe me I hear this often, people saying; “I’m not under the Law, I have “liberty” and we are going to talk about that next.
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Post total misinterpretation Tracy S Hamilton
of Romans 3:31 Isaiah. The point of "upholding the law" is found in verse 21 which clearly says: "the law and the prophets testify that righteousness is NOT found in the law but is found through faith."

So vs 31 is correct..... "Do we nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

How do we uphold the law, by know the purpose of the law and that was the law made us conscious of sin and showed us that we need a Savior.

Scripture plainly says that NO ONE, that includes you, will be made righteous in the sight of God by observing the law. The law was for the purpose of showing men their sinfulness and their need for a savior.

He tells us in the same chapter.... vs. 30.... that he will justify the circumcised (the law) by faith (believing in Jesus and the work of the CROSS) and the uncircumcised by the same faith..... NOT THE LAW!!

Romans 2:13..... just keep reading.... where is that law now........ it is written on our hearts......

Another gross misinterpretation of Colossians 2:13-15

The handwriting of requirements is a direct statement about the Law. And it plainly says that it was against us. Why was it against us? Because God was sending his son to die on a CROSS and to be resurrected on the third day to free us from the curse of the law (the curse of the law is that we can't meet the requirements)

What is it that the enemy uses against us? The Law...... he keeps showing people how they continually fall short of the law...... When Christ died on the cross he was telling us that now the enemy has nothing to use against us because we have been set free from it (the Law).

This has NOTHING to do with man made doctrines....... Show me ONE just ONE verse of Scripture that plainly tells us that the handwriting of requirements were some sort of man made doctrines and not the law......

I will spare you the time and effort..... you can't.

The Law was opposed to us because the law was never God's intention in the first place...... His intention was spelled out in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve...... he wanted personal relationship, not rules and regulations and after the fall of man...... everything was about God sending his son to restore that relationship where there is not a "handwriting of requirements" but a relationship.

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Post Oh really Tracy? Isa 58:12
total misinterpretation? Where? You complained awhile back that I don't use enough of the Book of Galatians... Well, there you go, what was misinterpreted? Rom 3:31 does not help you

Quote:
Scripture plainly says that NO ONE, that includes you, will be made righteous in the sight of God by observing the law. The law was for the purpose of showing men their sinfulness and their need for a savior.


I need you to write this down & put it next to your computer when ever you have the urge to say that again. "Isa 58:12" doesn't keep the Law to be saved, he keeps it "because" he is saved".....

Quote:
He tells us in the same chapter.... vs. 30.... that he will justify the circumcised (the law) by faith (believing in Jesus and the work of the CROSS) and the uncircumcised by the same faith..... NOT THE LAW!!


Don't you see Tracy, your making my point. Its "Law"
Quote:
that he will justify the circumcised (the law)
& "Faith"
Quote:
by faith (believing in Jesus and the work of the CROSS) and the uncircumcised by the same faith.....


Quote:
Romans 2:13..... just keep reading.... where is that law now........ it is written on our hearts......


What Laws Rolling Eyes

Quote:
Another gross misinterpretation of Colossians 2:13-15

The handwriting of requirements is a direct statement about the Law. And it plainly says that it was against us. Why was it against us? Because God was sending his son to die on a CROSS and to be resurrected on the third day to free us from the curse of the law (the curse of the law is that we can't meet the requirements)

What is it that the enemy uses against us? The Law...... he keeps showing people how they continually fall short of the law...... When Christ died on the cross he was telling us that now the enemy has nothing to use against us because we have been set free from it (the Law).


Soooooo what do you do with all those Scriptures I place on Pg 2 of Scriptures concerning the Law? Are youuuuuu saying thats all against us?

Quote:
This has NOTHING to do with man made doctrines....... Show me ONE just ONE verse of Scripture that plainly tells us that the handwriting of requirements were some sort of man made doctrines and not the law......

I will spare you the time and effort..... you can't.


Nice try, I can show you, read the WHOLE chapter in Col 2, read verse 8, 14-(ordinances)-17, 20-22 Again, "ordinances" & commandments & doctrines of man. i.e. lifting up the cross in a position it shouldn't, above Y'shua. & what I showed you in Gal 4:3, do a word study yourself @ the word "elements" in verse 3

Shalom
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Post Already read them..... Tracy S Hamilton
They just don't say what you are saying. Nothing is hidden. Paul said what he meant to say.

Show me in scripture where it says we keep the law "because we are saved." Haven't seen that one.

Nice try to re-write Colossians 2:13-15....... the law was against us and it is still what Satan uses against us and always will use against us.

The law was NEVER God's plan. When did God give the law? He gave the law because the people asked for it. He did this in the same way when the people asked for a King and God gave them Saul. Saul was not God's plan, but he gave them what they asked for.

So.... when did God give the law..... He gave it to them when they were complaining about food and water..... God did a miracle AGAIN..... and they said: Now we know that you are God..... just tell us WHAT TO DO and we will do it...... you can then see the demeanor of God change..... He tells them..... "get off of this mountain"

You see, they didn't understand that it was grace that brought them out of Egypt and it would have been his grace that took them to the promised land, but THEY wanted rules and regulations.... so God gave them rules and regulations out the ying yang.

So God set up the Law until the time of Christ. Now Christ has fulfilled the law and we are no longer under its curse.

If you look at the law.... the law is all about .... "you shall, you shall..... it was all on us to perform..... but under grace (new covenant) the burden is on what Christ performed on the cross.

That is why Jesus said.... "Come to me, all you who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest, for My yoke is easy and light."

Jesus was not speaking to people who were tired and weary from their jobs. He was talking to people who were tired and weary and heavy laden by the requirements of the law of Moses. The yoke of the law is hard and heavy. Jesus came to reveal grace, and the yoke of grace is easy and light because it involves none of you and all of Jesus.

Let me say this so no one misunderstand me.... I have the highest regard for the law..... I am not antinomian (someone who is against the law of Moses).... because I have a high regard for it is what helps me realize that no man can keep the law. We have to totally depend on God's grace.

Last thing: Romans 6:14 "for sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are NOT UNDER LAW but under grace."

This simply means that the more grace you receive, the more power you have to overcome sin....

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered that the offense (sin) might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more.

Amazing that the bible says that the law entered so that sin might abound.... wow.... I clearly means that the more you preach the law, the more sin will abound. Simply, the strength of sin is the law.

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Post Isa 58:12
Yep, your right Tracy...
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Post Isa 58:12
we are done, Tom is gone, people just want to argue instead of reading the Scriptures of what I present. So I'm not going to post anymore. It takes up alot of time to go through the Scriptures to give you all the very best knowledge of the Scriptures that I have.

So I'm done...
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Post Nature Boy Florida
Lucious J. Bloomingthall wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
So I'm not going to post anymore.


Thank you.


Excellent decision.

I hope he doesn't turn out to be a liar, as well.
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Post Isa 58:12
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Lucious J. Bloomingthall wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
So I'm not going to post anymore.


Thank you.


Excellent decision.

I hope he doesn't turn out to be a liar, as well.


I wasn't going to put anymore post here, Galatains.... I'll be here till Adonai says go Wink
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Post Nature Boy Florida
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Nature Boy Florida wrote:
Lucious J. Bloomingthall wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
So I'm not going to post anymore.


Thank you.


Excellent decision.

I hope he doesn't turn out to be a liar, as well.


I wasn't going to put anymore post here, Galatains.... I'll be here till Adonai says go Wink


Now that's two things we know about Isa - neither one very good.
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Post Isa 58:12
Well Praise Adonai, I'm not going to let the enemy win by trying to shut me up, not talking about this important discussion to give Him, our Creator the Glory. I don't care how many people try to irritate me, I'm going to keep posting Truths till Adonai removes me.

& I never said "I promise I won't speak anymore on this thread", so hold the lying card nature boy Laughing ...

Gal 5:1-7
5:1: Stand fast therefore “in” the “Liberty” wherewith Messiah has made us “free”, & be not entangled again with the “yoke” of “bondage”.

Ok the greek word for “Liberty” in Gal 5:1 is the same as in 2 Cor 3:17, & it is Eletheria and it means;

A free person, Freedom, generosity, independence. It is Freedom presented as a signal blessing of the economy of Grace, which, in contrast with the O.T. economy is represented as including independence from “religious regulations” and legal restrictions, legalism.

The Liberty we have in Messiah is freedom to walk in the things of Elohim & not be bound down to a man made rendition above Torah. Gal 5:1, the word “free”, Messiah has made us “free” goes back to the allegory in Gal 4:21-31 about the 2 Covenants, he of the “free” woman was by Promise.

Gal 5:1: & be not again entangled with the “yoke” of bondage. Yoke is talked about in Acts 15:10 speaking of the judaizers way for salvation. Which plays back to what Y’shua Himself said in Matt 23:3-4, about “they” tell you what to do, but they themselves don’t do it. For “they” bind heavy burdens & “grievous” to be borne…

Its interesting, the man made, pharisees doctrine, or “hagar” in Gal 4:21-31, how Messiah says in Matt 23:3-4 that “their” way (hagar) are to grievous for people to bare. But in 1 John 5:1-3, says that the Torah Commandments are NOT grievous. Huh, that will preach…

Back to Gal 5:1: & be not again entangled with the “yoke” of “bondage”. Bondage is not keeping Torah, Deut 8:14, Neh 9:16-19, Isa 5:13, but keeping a man made “system” or “elements” (Gal 4:3 = 9), greek word “stoicheion” world system….

Gal 5:2: Behold I Paul say to you, that “if” you be circumcised, (“yoke” for salvation, Gal 2:4, 2:12, 6:12) Messiah shall profit you nothing.

Gal 5:3: For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole Law.

Gal 5:4: Messiah is become of no effect (hagar, circumcision 5:2, yoke 5:1) unto you whosoever of you are “justified” (bypass Y’shua’s Atonement) by the Law; you are fallen from Grace.
Mans laws will never justify us, & just keeping Torah will not justify us either, Gal 5:5: For “we” through the Spirit (Torah, Rom 7:14) wait for the Hope of Righteousness (Y’shua/Goal) by “Faith” (“believes” Rom 10:4).

Gal 5:6: For “in” Messiah Y’shua neither circumcision avails anything, nor un-circumcision: But Faith which works love.
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Post Square Peg Round Hole
Isa 58:12 wrote:
I wasn't going to put anymore post here, Galatains.... I'll be here till Adonai says go Wink


what is Galatains? must be some new jewish incarnation of the word.
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Post Isa 58:12
Square Peg Round Hole wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
I wasn't going to put anymore post here, Galatains.... I'll be here till Adonai says go Wink


what is Galatains? must be some new jewish incarnation of the word.


Its always been Jewish, not a pentecostal, baptist, lutheran, methodist, morman, jehovahs witness, cog thing about it Wink How can you be something your Leader wasn't? Messiah Y'shua was a Jew Very Happy
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Post Square Peg Round Hole
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Square Peg Round Hole wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
I wasn't going to put anymore post here, Galatains.... I'll be here till Adonai says go Wink


what is Galatains? must be some new jewish incarnation of the word.


Its always been Jewish, not a pentecostal, baptist, lutheran, methodist, morman, jehovahs witness, cog thing about it Wink How can you be something your Leader wasn't? Messiah Y'shua was a Jew Very Happy


no it's called you spell the word wrong. it is spelled Galatians, not Galatains. i doubt Jesus was that bad of a speller.
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Post Randy Johnson
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Square Peg Round Hole wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
I wasn't going to put anymore post here, Galatains.... I'll be here till Adonai says go Wink


what is Galatains? must be some new jewish incarnation of the word.


Its always been Jewish, not a pentecostal, baptist, lutheran, methodist, morman, jehovahs witness, cog thing about it Wink How can you be something your Leader wasn't? Messiah Y'shua was a Jew Very Happy


Jesus' body was Jewish, His spirit was/is eternal, and non-racial.
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11/2/10 10:56 am


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Post Isa 58:12
Randy Johnson wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
Square Peg Round Hole wrote:
Isa 58:12 wrote:
I wasn't going to put anymore post here, Galatains.... I'll be here till Adonai says go Wink


what is Galatains? must be some new jewish incarnation of the word.


Its always been Jewish, not a pentecostal, baptist, lutheran, methodist, morman, jehovahs witness, cog thing about it Wink How can you be something your Leader wasn't? Messiah Y'shua was a Jew Very Happy


Jesus' body was Jewish, His spirit was/is eternal, and non-racial.


Are you saying that Y'shua's Spirit is something other than He was? & did you read what I put up about Gal 5:1-7 p randy?
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