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FL COG Office couldn't make payroll?
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Post Travis, res0515
If Dwight Allen messes with you too much, we will just set his leg on fire and burn him to the ground!

See ya Friday.
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11/3/10 11:13 pm


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Post Dan Callahan for Council Clyde Walker
I think brother Callahan would make a great councilman. He has had many years
of experience as a Florida pastor as well as missionary to the Carribbean and State Overseer in 2 states.
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11/4/10 8:00 am


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Post res0515
Whit the exception of very few, we should have a clean slate and start fresh. Little Danny Callahan and a lot of these others have had their day. While I appreciate all that they have done, it is time for a new start.
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11/4/10 5:26 pm


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Post I guess they must have met their payroll. Clyde Walker
But without the sale of church properties and borrowing another $200,000 they could not have done it.

What are they going to do when they have to use the proceeds from church sales to plant new churches? What are they going to do when they can't borrow any more money to pay their bills?

$436,221.00 From property sales
$200,000.00 From borrowed money
$636,221.00 Total receipts from sales and loans

If you add that to the 2010 $309,249.00 deficit you would have a deficit of $945,476.

Sounds to me like they need to increase their income real fast or they are going to be in real trouble.
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11/17/10 1:46 pm


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Post Travis Johnson
When your outflow exceeds your income, your upkeep becomes your downfall. It's that simple.

I can't imagine that the path forward for Florida does not include downsizing the number of employees in the State Office. I know our churches have been doing it over the past 3 years. Learning to do more with less has helped us to be more creative, efficient, and focused.

Downturn causes priorities to be clarified.

Thankfully, the ministers in Florida finally got us out of the insurance business. I'd almost bet you we lost more money trying to prevent loss than we would have had we not even been covered. We need to get out of every non-core-to-mission activity that we're in and outsource as many of our functions out to our ministers and churches as possible.

You know we're engaged in too many non-core functions or too many admin-heavy functions when we can't spend General Assembly designated cash from the EHM fund and designated cash from sold properties on the one thing that we're called to spend ourselves on. It's really that simple. Getting that situation turned around won't happen overnight...especially when we have leveraged properties in trouble. But, it won't happen without a drastic change in the way we do state ministry.

I will say that I'm encouraged drastically by the move toward common sense by our AB, which includes policies that cut out the departmental gift giving to directors and board members at Christmas. Smart move. And, if that is any indication of the intensity we're going to get after waste in our budget, then I'm on board.
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11/17/10 2:12 pm


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Post Lee Roy Brown
Travis Johnson wrote:


I will say that I'm encouraged drastically by the move toward common sense by our AB, which includes policies that cut out the departmental gift giving to directors and board members at Christmas. Smart move. And, if that is any indication of the intensity we're going to get after waste in our budget, then I'm on board.


Bad move. If we stop honoring those who serve we will soon fine no one willing to serve. My deacon board, building board and any staff that works with me gets a Christmas love offering from the church. If the money was not in the church funds I would take it out of my own pocket if I had to.

So I don't think this is a good move. Letís honor those who rule well among us.
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11/17/10 2:48 pm


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Post Travis Johnson
Lee Roy Brown wrote:
Travis Johnson wrote:


I will say that I'm encouraged drastically by the move toward common sense by our AB, which includes policies that cut out the departmental gift giving to directors and board members at Christmas. Smart move. And, if that is any indication of the intensity we're going to get after waste in our budget, then I'm on board.


Bad move. If we stop honoring those who serve we will soon fine no one willing to serve. My deacon board, building board and any staff that works with me gets a Christmas love offering from the church. If the money was not in the church funds I would take it out of my own pocket if I had to.

So I don't think this is a good move. Letís honor those who rule well among us.


In lean times, people are encouraged when steps are taken to right the ship, even if it means cutting back on the "nice-to-haves" like spendy gifts. If those cut backs mean the organization is healthier, people are encouraged. If someone believes the organization they work for is in trouble, they're thankful for leadership that takes the needed steps to get it solid.

If people don't understand that getting the organization healthy is more important than getting a perk, then that person is the problem...and is illustrative of the "why and how" of us arriving at the place we're in.
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11/17/10 2:58 pm


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Post Cojak
I am right there with LRB, and the 'volunteers' and the 'ones who serve', there is a lot of difference there and that of giving to a person who already had a good income coming from the church.

Just the way I see it.
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11/17/10 5:46 pm


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Post I would suggest a few places they could cut back a little. CentFLPstr
From the 2 Year Expense Analysis

Summer/Winter Campmeeting ...........$285,273.00
State/Regional Mtgs.,Training ....... ...$311,227.00


That is a total of nearly $600.000 every 2 years for campmeetings and regional meetings. I don't know about you that seems pretty expensive for meetings that have dwindling attendance.

Legal Fees ..................................$157,368.00

Are they fighting lawsuits? This seems very high for real estate closings and the like.

Campground Operations .................$1,372,964.00

Does this really make sense for the few times a year we actually use it?

Other .........................................$869,210.00

If we could just cut out a lot of OTHER it would make a real difference.
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11/17/10 6:11 pm


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Post Just a quick note to CentFLPstr Bowtat
I know I'm a few days late to this party, but there are a few things about the purposed cuts:

1. Winter Camp meetings are being "cut." The way they are going to save money is by having us drive to Central Florida for all "camp meetings." (note later way they are having it at the camp grounds)

2. Legal Fees would be able to be reduced if we had some kind retainer on a lawyer. If you pay up front you, you get a head in the long run.

3. Campground Operations is the most deceptive number on the list. I believe the grounds are payed for, so what does that mean? Why do I predict this number to rise? Every time we have an event at the camp grounds we pay for nothing. All rentals... nothing. Extra staff... nothing. Block the roads... nothing. Food and electricity... nothing.

The reason we will have more events at the camp grounds is because it cost the office nothing and the grounds everything. The state office knows we are not going to try and get the grounds sold, because every dummy in the world can see that property is our states "sacred cow." Let the grounds take the PR hit, not the AB is the thinking. The ground's manager said at the minister's meeting that it cost them about 200 dollars a kid for summer camp. So what does out 100 dollars pay for?
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11/24/10 1:32 pm


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Post Sell Wimauma Campground GuideOne
Campmeetings at Wimauma are a thing of the past. Its time to bite the bullet. No one likes to go to this place.

I know that it may offend some good people....however, it is time to accept the fact that ministers and layman are not making the drive.

Taylor tried to change it by bringing in someone on Friday, Donnie Smith tried to make it work. Timmerman and JDS tried to make it work. No one in leadership took the time to check history. Hughes tried to change it. John Nichols, one of the greatest leaders in Florida thought that maybe if they built a tabernacle, that it would stop the debate. It did not.

People want to go to a city where there are hotels, places to eat and not have to go to a place where we are 30 years back in time. Times have changed. Let the bats and the owls take over the place. They at last put rest rooms in the buildings. It is still the same old place. Its time to cut the lose and get out of that God forsaken place.

If God wanted us to continue in Wimauma, He would have blessed it.
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11/27/10 8:23 pm


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Post Best quote in this thread Larry Wiley
OK, I admit I have not read every post, since I am not from Fl. but this is the best quote I have seen in this thread.

Travis Johnson posted:
Quote:
If people don't understand that getting the organization healthy is more important than getting a perk, then that person is the problem...and is illustrative of the "why and how" of us arriving at the place we're in.

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11/27/10 8:44 pm


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Post Travis Johnson
GuideOne,

Between Riverview and Sun City Center, there are plenty of restaurants, including two Buffalo Wild Wings. In fact, that area is booming right now. The corner of 301 & 674 is prime real estate developed out with a new Wal Mart and all of the outparcels that come with a Wal Mart.

The issue isn't location.

I do agree with you though that things are different and times have changed. Our methods aren't sacred. We can and should flex.

SOME TWEAKS WE NEED TO MAKE WITH CAMP MEETING:

-Stop treating camp meeting like a political rally. Florida generally has the Executive Committee speaking at our camp meeting services. Let's bring in people that you don't have to wonder about the political implications of their invite.

-Stop the 90 minute parade that dominates every camp meeting service. I can't tell you the last time I've seen a FL Camp Meeting speaker get the podium before 1:35 minutes of the service have lapsed. People aren't going to come back and attendance is going to dwindle with that service order. That wouldn't fly at Life Pointe. It wouldn't fly at North Cleveland or Mt. Paran for that matter. People make choices about returning to a church over much more trivial matters.

-Start some coaching/training environments during camp meeting days: prayer training, leadership training, growth barriers/follow-up/sermon prep/small groups training. Have training environments for pastors, pastors spouses, and laity. Allow them to pick where they'd like to participate. If laymen want to attend pastors training and vice versa, go for it. Give people more legitimate value-added reasons for attending rather than out of obligation or commitment (these reasons are still valid for a lot of people...but, for many these are not good enough reasons...we need to add value to the people that trust us with their time).

SOME TWEAKS WE NEED TO MAKE WITH THE CAMPGROUND:

-Stop charging off departmental expenses to the camp ground. Youth Camps and similar events are going to cost us if we don't have the camp ground. Peel this stuff out of the campground budget. Show it where it belongs.

-Hire a Management Group to make the campground profitable giving them a percentage of profit. Develop out the RV Park. Push some of that development down to the lake where you can charge a premium and tell a story about a great product. Let the Management Group (like SMG, etc...) book out the convention center for concerts, trade shows, etc...

-Liquidate the State Office and relocate to the camp ground. In the last couple years, we fully leveraged the state office so aggressively that there probably isn't even any equity in it (I think we owe $2.2 million on a property we've owned for some 20+ years).
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Post Travis Cojak
Great ideas, I am not familiar with some ot the points, BUT I have said that about management of the campground and an RV park for a few years now. We stayed there once, enjoyed it, but it definitely needed upgrading. RV parks are money makers. With the tight spots that are there, I barely found a spot.
Rallys and snowbirds should pay for the complete campground upkeep.

Just my opinion.
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11/27/10 9:52 pm


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Post Great Ideas, Travis Theodore Ballard
Regarding the operation of the campmeeting services and the expenses of the camp ground itself.
I remember years ago the ministers discussing moving the state offices (and even the housing for state officials) to the camp ground. It did not pass and two of the reasons given was that it was too far to the airport to pickup dignitaries visiting the state; and the other was that it was too far to the office supply store. It is still the same distance to the airport but, as you pointed out, Walmart is just a mile or so away for office supplies. That's one problem down and one to go. Smile

BTW, thanks for praying for our grandson - he still needs prayer.

Theodore Ballard
Merritt Island, Fl
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11/28/10 7:29 am


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Post They should draw a line. CentFLPstr
Draw a line across Florida from east to west and divide it north and south. Let every church north of the line be in the Tampa office and every church south of that line be in the Cocoa office.

Let the campground stay in Wimauma and belong to both offices. You could sell the Tampa office complex and if they have one in Cocoa, sell that one as well. Then build a new office complex in Wimauma that could house both offices.

Perhaps this would solve some of the financial problems and eliminate the ugly racial divide we have now.
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11/28/10 9:46 am


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Post Cojak
The airport distance could not be considered in NC since the Airport (or Charlotte) bought the campground, but instead of building close to the Airport again it was moved into a 'more progressive neighborhood'. The Overseer moved years ago. The city has made the CG truly an eyesore on Wilkinson Blvd.

Any excuse is good. I am of course one of the dinasaurs, I like a camp church campground there are so many possibilities.

funny some pastors fuss about the little use of a facility and use their own church as low as an hour or two a week, except for their office.

Of course that is my opinion.

Selling the campground would give Florida needed money, but eventually you run out of things to sell.
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Post Travis GuideOne
I know that you feel strongly about the Wimauma Campground. I also appreciate your suggestions about management.

The feeling for a long time is to get out of Wimauma. Some are not willing to say it but the feeling is out there to sell this "Holy cow."

I agree that we need to sell the State Office. We could rent a complex.
There are many properties available. The State Offices are overloaded with staff. We do not need to remove staff secretaries. We do need to remove South Florida Evangelism Director. We need to remove the filter secretaries such as the Secretary to the Administrative Bishop. We need to take a hard look at the position that Waymon Miller holds as Ministerial Enrichment Director.

When you see the Salaries that these positions receive, there is a lot of fat in the budget. 100,000.00 dollars per Director every 12 months.

Bottom line.....We are either serious about cutting or we need to drop the subject.
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11/30/10 9:15 pm


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Post roughridercog
I'm shocked

Are we still talking about this?
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Post I thought Phil Hoover
we were deleting this...
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