Actscelerate.com Forum Index Actscelerate.com
Open Any Time -- Day or Night
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
@actscelerate Twitter  @actscelerate Facebook  @actscelerate Google+ 

FL COG Office couldn't make payroll?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
 
   Actscelerate.com Forum Index -> Hot Discussions Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Message Author
Post Exposing It Is Doing Something About It CentFLPstr
Mealone wrote,
Quote:
GuideOne why don't you go and do something about it, being that you seem to know so much?????


I would imagine that GuideOne like many many others in Florida would like to do something about the mishandling of our state finances. The problem is, if you are not on the State Council there is not a whole lot that can be done.

When our former AB, Jimmy D. Smith, abused our state funds with an extravagant Broadway trip for his staff and council, blew $36,000 on an illegal Ponzi scheme and appropriated enough of the state's money to purchase a personal condo, all we could do was try to expose it to the the General Authorities.

Their response to the whole thing was to send T. L. Lowery to Florida after JDS was already gone and told the council and new overseer to not push it as long as JDS got a loan and paid for the condo.
Friendly Face
Posts: 193
9/11/10 8:42 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: Exposing It Is Doing Something About It FellowSoldier
CentFLPstr wrote:
Mealone wrote,
Quote:
GuideOne why don't you go and do something about it, being that you seem to know so much?????


I would imagine that GuideOne like many many others in Florida would like to do something about the mishandling of our state finances. The problem is, if you are not on the State Council there is not a whole lot that can be done.

When our former AB, Jimmy D. Smith, abused our state funds with an extravagant Broadway trip for his staff and council, blew $36,000 on an illegal Ponzi scheme and appropriated enough of the state's money to purchase a personal condo, all we could do was try to expose it to the the General Authorities.

Their response to the whole thing was to send T. L. Lowery to Florida after JDS was already gone and told the council and new overseer to not push it as long as JDS got a loan and paid for the condo.


YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING!! Why does this man still have a license? Why do we not deal with churches that are not sending TOT? If they are struggling, fine, but if not, WHAT IS THE DEAL?
_________________
Your Fellow Soldier
Friendly Face
Posts: 403
9/11/10 12:19 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Cojak
The feeling is: it has always been this way. We all have seen it from the local level, a pastor about kills a church and he is promoted. It goes all the way up. Once someone has 'Paid their Dues'. Well......
we can't just throw him to the wolves, look at all he has done. etc.

Now from the outside looking in, I see some younger minds trying to remedy some of this. It speaks well for them even if some folks call them rebels (or worse).

To the post: Payrolls may have to be modified if this is true.
_________________
Some facts but mostly just my opinion!
jacsher@aol.com
http://shipslog-jack.blogspot.com/
01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011
Posts: 23032
9/12/10 9:29 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post real story rttheship
As one who has been on the state council and and having served in the office for the state of Florida I can say waist has ran wild, but the facts concerning the Florida office are not really known, we have had to lay off good hard working faithful people, while at the same time the former overseer spent money like water without accountabilty just running everything by a budget commitee or the head council member from south florida, I know for a fact state council members would leave meetings frustrated, here are some of the foolish spending:

$100,000.00 on vehicles for the bishop ($65000.00 LEXUS, $50,000 SUV)the last one four months before he left and he took it with him, state council knew nothing until after cars where purchased.

$150,000. loan this summer, then spent $10,000 on campaign ads at general assembly, council or budget commitee knew nothing of loans til after the fact.

Thousands spent on travel for unnecessary trips.

millions given to celebration of praise while other Church of God congregations also needed assistance but none was availble.

All this done while the Bishop and the Budget committee knew we did not have the money we are Broke !


as one who has spent over three decades in this great state, I am sad to see this take place with no responsibility by leadership we have spent two million in reserves in the last four year but the paarty is over!
Newbie
Posts: 1
9/14/10 8:03 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Where ya at Kyle... Grandpa Cleland
Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed
Quote:
I am disturbed that this thread is on here, and very disturbed that it is a sticky.
Acts-celerater
Posts: 627
9/14/10 8:09 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post bigchurchmouse
It sounds like it is time to pay the piper and J. David Stephens got there just in time to do the dirty work. I hope he is able to right the ship. I would imagine there are other states that have done foolish things with the money. Didn't North Georgia give Don and Jackie Walker $50,000 for their 50th anniversary? That makes no sense in my opinion. By the time someone is in their 70's and has held as many high positions in the COG as Don Walker has, no one could convince me he needed that kind of offering. There is no telling what they gave him when he left the state to go back to TN. Sometimes preachers on state councils spend money like the politicans in Washington. They need to realize it is not really their money to waste. Overspending catches up with everybody sooner or later. Sounds like it has come sooner to FL.

BTW There was some talk that Don Walker gave part of that money back in NG but I don't know for sure.
Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2857
9/14/10 8:58 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Here's a question? commingsoon
Do not those two vehicles belong to the state of florida?, and are we receiving payments on that $150,000.00 loan?, Somebody has got to fess up that our tithes paying members money is being spent this way. We as men of God have to elect leaders on the council that we trust and not just because they think they are somebody by pastoring a big church. For one day we are going to have to answer to God face to face for how we stewarded his money.

This has really got me boiling. Lets remember this when election time comes in November!
_________________
http://myblogginghole.blogspot.com/
Friendly Face
Posts: 130
9/14/10 11:35 am


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post commingsoon
(not just because they think they are somebody by pastoring a big church.)

I want to apologize for making that statement about that Pastor:(

the Holy Spirit checked me just now and I want to make that right.
_________________
http://myblogginghole.blogspot.com/
Friendly Face
Posts: 130
9/14/10 12:01 pm


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Reply with quote
Post Florida State Council needs to go GuideOne
There has been to much looking the other way. If these post are true, the State Council in Florida needs to be changed.

They have been doing the bidding of the AB.....They are certainly not looking out for the good of the great State of Florida.

Here is the problem...The Overseer evidently has done whatever he wants to do and checks with the Council later. This would not work in other states who are not rubber stamps.

Other states would have brought charges.
Friendly Face
Posts: 296
9/14/10 12:18 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Eddie Robbins
Quote:
waist has ran wild


I nominate this as line of the year. Pretty good for the first post. Very Happy
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16367
9/14/10 1:01 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post bigchurchmouse
I second the motion. I wonder if there was also waste in the state. Golf Cart Mafia Capo
Posts: 2857
9/14/10 2:40 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Question Larry Wiley
Many churches have a set amount the pastor can spend without going before the council or church. Does this apply to some state AB's as well?

I remember several years ago a pastor who allegedly took over 130,000 from a local church and went to a pastor a large church in another state.
_________________
Larry Wiley
Acts Mod
Posts: 5298
9/14/10 5:25 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post in our state BishopsWife
the AB stated that anything over $200 he had to go to council with. Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1792
9/14/10 7:34 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post disturbed theedmister
I guess if anything is disturbing is that:
1) these accusations are being made without any verification and people are commenting on them
2) there is no mention of all those Flordia churches who are NOT paying the TOT

Amazing how we see so differently.
Friendly Face
Posts: 226
9/14/10 9:48 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Are you Serious about $200 Grandpa Cleland
Quote:
the AB stated that anything over $200 he had to go to council with.


I don't see how he could operate a state by running back and forth to the state council... (not saying your lying... LOL Wink ) I pastor a church of 200 and I can spend 300 before I need deacon board.approval.. with approval from the deacons we can spend up to 1000 before I take it to the church body...

I think running a whole state would be a little more difficult with having to go back and for to the council... With that said, in an era of wasteful spending, He probably has won a lot of the peoples trust in the state.

Grandpa
Acts-celerater
Posts: 627
9/14/10 10:29 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post The Reason For The Drop In Tithe of Tithe CentFLPstr
Theedmister wrote,


Quote:
I guess if anything is disturbing is that:
1) these accusations are being made without any verification and people are commenting on them
2) there is no mention of all those Flordia churches who are NOT paying the TOT

Amazing how we see so differently.


I am not sure what kind of verification would satisfy many readers here. If the present AB posted in his own name that it is true, many would doubt that it was really he.

Those of us in Florida know it is true because we have witnessed the waste (waist) for many years. I have also personally spoken to officials in our state office who have verified the story.

There are several reasons why there is such a turn down in tithe of tithe income.

1. If you haven't noticed the national economy is in recession.

2. Because of 4 hurricanes in one season several years ago our insurance rates are through the roof. Even tiny churches are having to pay around $25,000 a year for insurance. Some larger churches are paying over $100,000 a year.

3. Florida members are not stupid. They have seen the waste and the extravagant lifestyles of leadership. The Florida laymen know about the infamous "Broadway Trip" that cost the state over $50,000, the loss of $36,000 of their money in a stupid and illegal "ponzi" scheme and the misappropriation of their money to purchase a personal condo.

They know about the Lexus and the Tahoe given to the AB in the most difficult recession since 1929.

Now many of our churches are having to make a choice of paying their mortgage to the local bank or sending 15% of their gross tithe to headquarters. Our lay people are fed up and are simply choosing to support the local church by designating their tithes as offerings to the local church.

Is that right for them to do that? No, but how are you going to enforce it? The only way to turn that around is to restore their confidence in leadership. Maybe it would help for an overseer to refuse the $50,000 new SUV, or to pay for his own vacations. Or they could start using Evangelism money for evangelism. Little things like that might make a difference.

Then there is the problem of pastors who are not sending the tithe of tithe to headquarters or those who are reporting less than they actually receive. How do we propose to deal with them?

First of all we have no evidence of any pastor who is lying about their income. If there is that evidence there is a method to deal with that.

On the other hand if there is just not enough money to pay the mortgage and the light bill plus the tithe to headquarters, how do you deal with that? Does the AB tell the pastor to let the mortgage go and turn off the electric but pay the tithe of tithe? Do your revoke or threaten to revoke his ministry? If you do that does it solve the problem?

There are no easy solutions for that pastor and his church. It is real easy for someone else to tell them to just pay the tithe of tithe and trust the Lord but not so easy for that congregation to sit in the heat and dark while the AB runs around in his Lexus.

There needs to be a revival of righteous leadership. Present leadership needs to make a full disclosure to the entire membership of Florida of the disgraceful way their money has been handled in the past with a promise integrity and disclosure for the future. Make the case to the laity of the need for our state ministry.
Friendly Face
Posts: 193
9/15/10 7:07 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: The Reason For The Drop In Tithe of Tithe theedmister
Integrity and commitment are first. The question I ask is "how does the church people know?"

the average person in the church I pastor has no idea what goes on in the state office. Is there waste? In some areas yes, even our AB admitted it.

Yet that does not change my commitment and my integrity of doing what is right.

When we quit paying tithes when things are tough what does that tell our people. Some say they don't want to pay 15% well just pay 10% but when there are 1/3 churches not reporting.

Sad sad, to hear the condition of the state of Florida, especially discussed in such a manner as here on this board.
Friendly Face
Posts: 226
9/15/10 7:28 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post I Agree About Integrity and Commitment CentFLPstr
Quote:
Integrity and commitment are first. The question I ask is "how does the church people know?"

the average person in the church I pastor has no idea what goes on in the state office. Is there waste? In some areas yes, even our AB admitted it.


The reason we are in this mess is because of lack of integrity. What happens with the head flows down to the body.

How do they know? Because pastors share the information with them. Are we supposed to keep secrets? Are the ones who pay the bills, local, state, and general, not allowed to know what happens to the money?

If you had genuine integrity and real openness among leadership you would see a difference in the way our churches operate.
Friendly Face
Posts: 193
9/15/10 9:07 am


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Post Re: The Reason For The Drop In Tithe of Tithe bonnie knox
theedmister wrote:
Integrity and commitment are first. The question I ask is "how does the church people know?"

the average person in the church I pastor has no idea what goes on in the state office. Is there waste? In some areas yes, even our AB admitted it.



You can't possibly be suggesting that it would be better to keep the church people in the dark about waste, mismanagement, or abuse of funds at the state level, can you???? Ignorance is bliss, but happiness is overrated.
Accountability is such a beautiful, beautiful thing!!
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
9/15/10 11:05 am


View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Reply with quote
Post No Accountability Alan Wagoner
Quote:
Integrity and commitment are first. The question I ask is "how does the church people know?"

the average person in the church I pastor has no idea what goes on in the state office.


I am afraid that one of the great problems in the Church of God is that preachers view it as a church of the preachers, for the preachers and by the preachers. There is no accountablility to the people whose contributions finance the whole thing.

The very idea that one member of the state council can okay the gift of a new car to the overseer without the approval or knowledge of the rest of the council is appalling. The idea of borrowing $150,000 from a local church without the vote of the ministers is also shocking. The idea that all this is supposed to be kept quite to not let the members know is revealing. It reveals how the preachers really see the laymen.

We are just the cash cows to be used for the pleasure and convenience of the few. It is no wonder the income to our headquarters is down.

By the way, I learned a long time ago that you can't borrow your way out of debt anymore than you can dig yourself out of a hole. Sooner or later that local church must be paid back.
Friendly Face
Posts: 172
9/15/10 1:38 pm


View user's profile Send private message
Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Actscelerate.com Forum Index -> Hot Discussions Post new topic   Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Page 2 of 10

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Acts-celerate Terms of Use | Acts-celerate Policy
World News Network | Acts-celerate Chat
Contact the Administrator.


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group :: Spelling by SpellingCow.