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OK, I'll bite - to the Serpent Seed "people" here
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Post Joenail, even a fool can understand the scriptures? BlessedinMsTn
This gospel is hidden to the lost,, everyone doesn't see it,, not wise men or fools....

This book is a living creature, it is a treasure and only those who hunger after God, including the sinner and comprehend this book . . . .The casual readers falls asleep upon reading its pages while the hungry man comes alive when this book is opened
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Post Re: HisDisciple, you must not read the post before you respo His disciple
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
In my post to you when I was mentioning the Resurrection of Jesus and his body being of perfect origin,, he res the reply you come back to me with


NOT ONE FACT,

Now that laughable my friend,, there were many facts in that post,, the Resurrection is a fact


This is used in combat as well. Shoot and displace. Shoot and displace. Yes, the resurrection is a fact. The fact that it means or proves what you say is completely a different story. Again, all of your arguments have just enough truth to make them sound right.

I'll give an example of your style of your arguments. Water is blue (can be a fact) The sun is yellow (fact) so that is why grass is green! ??????
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Post So, is the grass not green? BlessedinMsTn
There is nothing wrong with stating facts
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Post To EAT or Not to EAT? PastorNeal
Blessed, In one of you replies you mentioned that we will not eat of real food. All that we will partake of is in a spiritual sense.

What are you saying, that we will not eat any nature food?

Several have gone in many different directions with this and I believe we have gotten totally off of the subject in a sense.

Blessed, I know that we will have a glorified body in heaven. We will be like Christ. But, after His resurection did he not eat with his disciples, natural food. To say that we will only consume spiritual food is something very new to me and hard to comprehend.

2 point

Gen. 4: 1 Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, " I have acquired a man from the Lord."

****Eve said her son Cain was from the LORD. !!!!!!!!

No where do I read that Cain was from Satan.

Gen. 4 : 2 Then she bore again, this time his brother Abel. ......

This lets me know that Cain and Abel were not twins and that your theory of two men and two eggs is wrong. Correct me if I am miss quoting you.

All I see is clearly written in the Word and I am not trying to read anything into it except what is written in black and white.

I am using the New King James version in my scripture quotes.
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Post Pastor Neal, I thoughly enjoy your post BlessedinMsTn
I appreciate your tone and your sincerity;

Let me try to approach your questions:

First of all, every Bible Commentator and every scholar has always said that Cain and Abel were twins.. it is suggested in the original wording that she "continued to bare" Abel, as in a mother giving birth to twins...

Now, if they weren't twins then we have a bigger problem, because there is only two records of ADAM KNOWING EVE but yet we have three sons.. so this is the reason most believe they were twins,, if they were not twins then that even lends more credence to our argument..

As far as our glorified bodies, they will be Spirit,, they will transcend humanity,, eating is a human trait, there is no mention of eating in heaven at all at anytime, save the marriage supper,, but one must remember,, in Israel a Marriage Supper is very little about food and mostly about the families coming together for celebration....So, if eating is to SUSTAIN the natural body,, will the spiritual body not sustain itself...

I find no reason to believe that Spirits are eating,, I mean I don't mean to sound crude but I just imagine still having to deal with hygiene and excretion in that heavenly Jerusalem,,,

Now when Eve said she had gotten a man from the Lord.. Please remember, that all life comes from the Lord,, also remember she having been deceived in her interaction with Satan,, perhaps was still deceived in her speaking.... Deception is a powerful thing,, Remember, this wasn't God saying she had a man from the Lord, this was a fallen deceived woman speaking,,, was she also perhaps trying to convince herself that everything was alright? Was she hiding her sin?

We also know that all life, comes from the Lord,,, so I see no problem with this verse at all..

Please let me finish by saying that I truly do believe Cain and Abel were twins,, because in the original language it says right after Cain was born, she "continued baring Abel"
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Post Re: So, is the grass not green? His disciple
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
There is nothing wrong with stating facts


Yes, but not because of the logic I used. That is my point.
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Post We are born again of the incorruptible seed BlessedinMsTn
Not the Corrupted Seed
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Post Re: rsskypastor, I will answer these questions again Scott Simms
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
How can according to Jesus Words "eat of me" "any man that drinks of me shall have eternal life"

I will ask you to explain those verses just as your asking me to explain yours,,,, the answer is,, its all allegorical and symbolical,,, when Jesus said unless you EAT MY FLESH,, How do you eat Jesus?

Also, how are we gonna eat of the tree of life? We will be spirit,, spirits do not eat unless in their theophany state.... for a spirit to eat it must excrete,, I doubt there will be plumbing in heaven,, oh how simple minded we can be at times,, to not see beyond these images and see the beautiful message behind them......

So, in you answering my question, hopefully you will see the answer to the question you asked me.....

Jesus told his disciples,, he said,, I was THAT MANNA that was in the wilderness... you see,,, they ate him then as well....

So how can we EAT OF HIM,.,,,,,,,its spiritual,,,


You see this is the same tree that gave Adam his eternal life, Jesus


My problem is when you talk of eve eating of the tree she is having sexual relations with satan, this is not spiritual this is just nasty. then you turn araound and say that the eating of the tree of life is spiritual.

So in youe Opinion partaking of one is not spiritual and the other is?
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5/23/06 7:40 am


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Post Re: rsskypastor, I will answer these questions again His disciple
rsskypastor wrote:
My problem is when you talk of eve eating of the tree she is having sexual relations with satan, this is not spiritual this is just nasty. then you turn araound and say that the eating of the tree of life is spiritual.

So in youe Opinion partaking of one is not spiritual and the other is?


Get ready for a long rant filled with supposition and speculation with perhaps one verse thrown in for good measure that does everything but answer the question. Might even have a "anyone with basic intelligence recognizes" tagged on for effect.
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Post hmmmmm. Joe Nail
poor man just cant read what it says in the bible. gen 5:4 and Adam begat and had sons and daughters. it does not mention any other wives so i will have to take it that it was with eve. if not then it would have been with one of his daughters. Cool
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Post Re: Nature Boy, years ago the earth was square Nature Boy Florida
Blessed,

Thanks for outlining your position on this. I now know we totally disagree. Also, please reread your post (copied below) for inflammatory wording. It was uncalled for.

My college degrees (Bachelors & Masters) are science degrees. I consider my self knowledgeable. IMHO, I am at times "brilliant". So far, all of the discoveries that science makes continues to line up more closely to the Bible, not further away from it. The missing link has been studied and the so called scientists have spent billions trying to establish such a link only to find they are further away then ever. Contrary to your blind parroting of some web sites with 1991 headlines, every creature that has been found as a missing link has ALWAYS proven to not be one. On the contrary, discoveries in DNA prove there was a "perfect" blueprint at one time that has consistently decayed since "the beginning". Differences that are discovered in species are because of the DNA becoming faulty, not changing to a higher order.

If you believe the "missing link" is "PROVEN", you are in gross error. Your scientific proof is as weak as your biblical exegesis.

BlessedinMsTn wrote:
as proven by science, until when? Until they found the missing link,,, that the earth was round . . . .You and I both know that to days mysteries are tomorrows discoveries,, However, anyone knowledgeable of of scientific study will tell you that SCIENCE has always believed there is a missing link between the animal kingdom and humans,,,, they will tell you that somehow, somewhere is the mammal that can connect the two,,,, we believe that this mammal,, HE WAS NOT A REPTILE<, the Bible says he was a beast,, not a reptile, reptile came after the curse

Melbourne's Sunday Herald-Sun of June 23, 1991 headlined a story “Missing link” found.
What was found , this animal walked on four feet and had a long sloping back.

Any brilliant mind will tell you that there is a missing link between man and animals because of the DNA,, you see in the DNA of CAIN was this animal that no longer exist

There are actually 13,000,000 web pages that discuss this missing link.. They try hard to find it,, and don't even realize that link was cursed,, so that it could never again mingle with the human race,, it was turned into a reptile...

No brilliant mind would dismiss this argument as it has been studied scientifically and PROVEN that there is a missing link

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Post Nature Boy, my apologies for coming across in that manner BlessedinMsTn
I absolutely respect your idea and opinions... What gets me is that everyone on this board, including yourself acted as if I was making up an idea about a missing link . . .You know as well as I do,, that there are many scientist who say they HAVE PROVEN there is a missing link and many that say they HAVEN'T... my only contention is that according to the Bible,, something happened in the womb of Eve,, God cursed the animal that did it,, and we believe that this animal is the missing link......

Hey,, It's America, it's what I believe... again my apologies for coming across in the manner that I did
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Post Tim Finlayson
Thank you for all that contributed to this debate. I still do not believe that fallen man is the result of a sexual relation with a non-human. But I am enjoying the back and forth discussion. Thanks for acting like men or women of God that disagree. Acts Enthusiast
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Post Blessed, you're wandering in every direction .. Rafael D Martinez
... but the Scripture. You've managed to make this thread into a showcase of precisely what I asked you NOT to ..

I asked for a verse in the Bible that teaches this serpent seed doctrine. Just one would suffice. ONE.

Now you're quoting websites and accusing everyone as mean who objects to your arbitrary spiritualizing of verses here and there with your own teaching that this verse means A when it says B.

As I said, your hermeneutic is showing. Instead of standing on Scripture alone and the plain sense of the content of a verse, your spins on it are singulary painful to behold and unworthy of a Christian minister's careful and right dividing of the Word.

Remember what I said originally? I started out a couple days ago to ESTABLISH THE TEXT with you of the long string of Bible verses you quote. In any sound and solid study of the Bible, in an attempt to understand it, the text of the verse must be read and then what truth it seeks to convey be clearly understood.

Reading what you've written up to this point, it's evident that this is a fundamental principle of Biblical interpretation you simply don't understand and don't subscribe to. THAT is quite disturbing. You claim to have a doctorate in ministerial studies but your approach to the Scriptures is tragically lacking in the simple and truth-honoring principle above which every true student of Scripture holds to. You don't have to have a doctorate to do this either. It's just common sense .. the same sense motivating the Bereans who searched the Scriptures to see if every one of Paul's preachings were true or not. That's why I'm so utterly amaze at the hills you are drawing your stand upon .. your defense of what is completely indefensible is unbelievable.

Blessed, you are stubbornly persisting in presenting claims you read INTO the text as if it IS the text. THAT is twisting Scripture, making the Word line up to the dance you call for it. I asked for a purely Biblical discussion and you have managed to turn it into a shooting gallery for junk science and false doctrine.

When will you simply sit down with the Bible and study it verse by verse without all of your man made interpretations and context and simply accept what it says?

Now I know why Wayne Lee booked from this thread. He simply tried to come off as one "in the know" when he in fact knew nothing. I respect your convictions .. they just aren't Biblical and you need to stop calling them that.

Until you can sloooooww down enough to quit hop-scotching from point to point and just read the verses of Scripture, you can never grasp what it really is saying. The sin of Adam was disobedience .. not sex with a violated Eve hot out of a perverted twist with a missing link. No verse in the Bible proves this. Repent, brother, of this thinking .. speedily!

agape

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Post Back to square one ... Revelation 2:7 and Genesis 2:9 Rafael D Martinez
Quote:
So lets begin my list of scriptures and Ill let you tear them apart for me:

# 1 - Rev 2:7 - To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Now Rafael, you tell this board how this tree of Life is not Jesus Christ,,, and if it is Jesus here,,,, why was it not him in the Garden?

Would you please also tell us why,, if the Tree of Life was a person, then why wouldn't the tree of knowledge have been a person?


These are the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, Shane. We're not quoting anyone but the captain of our salvation. Handling this precious word of life coming from Him is the highest privilege simultaneously laden with the deepest responsibility to ensure we fully and completely understand and proclaim it.

Let us try once more to establish the text.

I will ask again - WHERE in these two verses is there ANY proof that Jesus is the "tree of life" here? WHAT shows this plainly and clearly?

I don't want to hear your own "Message's" speculation you cite as if having Scriptural weight. Your assumption that Jesus is embodied in this metaphor is a big one, but if it's Biblical, we have no need of you just telling me it's "true." SHOW IT TO US and STICK TO THE WORD!

Revelation 2:7 and Genesis 2:9 share only one common subject, that being something called the "tree of life." But WHAT in these verses is something you can legitimately draw this belief you keep pushing that Jesus Himself is a "tree of life"??

WHAT?
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Post Rafael, on whose authority do you call another brother BlessedinMsTn
wrong?

These issues have been debated for millenniums and now you ride in on the scene and everyone should bow to your understanding of the scriptures.... For you to question my love for the Word and to speak condescendingly to another minister who simply sees something different that is neither a hell nor heaven issue,, shows your total lack of respect and your close mindedness to other peoples perceptions of scriptures.. You know if one of you guys come into some of the boards I post on, you would be the ones in the minority there's are so many believers who hold this opinion, and for you singlehandedly to degrade them all because they are not as RIGHT as you,, speaks of your character,, and your inability to have a conversation without being the one in charge.. I can imagine what it must be like to have a one to one conversation with you,, is anyone else ever right in your conversations? I mean have you ever bowed? I doubt it,, it shows in your post,, you are soooo right and everyone else in the world is wrong,..... I cant wait till the day that you see something in the Word,, you didn't see before and you have to admit where you were wrong,, trust me Rafael, we have all had that day,, yours will come,,, everything is not as plain as it seems,,, and for you to degrade the opinions of your fellow ministers simply because their ideas are not in the mainstream,, is simply sad.....

Continue on Brother,, I have never one time told you that you were wrong for your beliefs, not one time did I degrade your CALLING, your ability to see Gods Word, as a matter of fact I responded to you with total respect and kindness,, give you an HONEST answer to your evidently non honest question,, you asked me for the verses that I use in my argument, I gave them to you,,, I know not what else you ask me for Rafael . . .

It is one thing to disagree but then to outright tell a fellow minister that he is "unworthy of a Christian Minister" Rafael, I have given my life to the church, the work of God,, 62 nations I have declared Gods Word in ,, since twelve years old SOLD out to a life of ministry,, and someone like you would dare tell me that I am "Unworthy of a Christian Minister" simply because along with thousands of others I believe something happened in the Garden that's not in the mainstream.....

And please let me make it finally clear to you, I don't CLAIM to have a Doctorate, I HAVE ONE . . . .

There's a huge difference,, one is a lie,, and sir you nor anyone else will ever hear me LIE.........
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Post .. missing link? whoa ... Rafael D Martinez
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
I absolutely respect your idea and opinions... What gets me is that everyone on this board, including yourself acted as if I was making up an idea about a missing link . . .You know as well as I do,, that there are many scientist who say they HAVE PROVEN there is a missing link and many that say they HAVEN'T... my only contention is that according to the Bible,, something happened in the womb of Eve,, God cursed the animal that did it,, and we believe that this animal is the missing link......

Hey,, It's America, it's what I believe... again my apologies for coming across in the manner that I did


It is telling when one cites the flawed speculation of Darwinian evolutionism that rejects the creation account of the Bible in an attempt to provide some shred of evidence for a patently unbiblical doctrine.

Talk about STRANGE bedfellows here .. in this thread of all things!

It may be your Constitutional right to believe this, Shane. This is true.

Just don't call it Christian. It's unbiblical and utterly unproven.
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Last edited by Rafael D Martinez on 5/23/06 10:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post Rafael, I do not post under my real name, for you to refer BlessedinMsTn
to it on this board is uncalled for and a violation of this board......

Should someone to follow my website link so be it, but for you to refer to me with a REAL NAME is out of bounds.. I have never given my name on this board and should have expected you to know better than to do it as well....
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Post Re: Rafael, I do not post under my real name, for you to ref Rafael D Martinez
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
to it on this board is uncalled for and a violation of this board......

Should someone to follow my website link so be it, but for you to refer to me with a REAL NAME is out of bounds.. I have never given my name on this board and should have expected you to know better than to do it as well....


Then you should remove your website from this board. There's no violation here. You've outed yourself the second you put it on here. What "anonymity" are you expecting here?

If you don't like me to call you by the name your own parents gave you, fine. I don't know what the beef is, but I won't.

Just please focus on my questions .. Blessed ..

Just call me "Anointed", then .. ;)

agape

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Post on calling someone wrong? Try the Bible .. Rafael D Martinez
2 Timothy 4:1

1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Titus 1:13

This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Titus 2:15

These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Sha - Blessed, sounds like some wrong people are to be corrected here.
If I'm wrong, prove it. If I'm in error, show me from the Scriptures.

Deal with the point at hand, Blessed. Don't go off on the messenger now.
You have a "Message" don't you? LET'S HEAR IT! If there are really that many people on your message boards so well versed in this doctrine, why is it so hard for you to share what your "Message" says from THE WORD? Color me skeptical.

BlessedinMsTn wrote:


And please let me make it finally clear to you, I don't CLAIM to have a Doctorate, I HAVE ONE . . . .

There's a huge difference,, one is a lie,, and sir you nor anyone else will ever hear me LIE.........


Call off your dogs, Blessed.

I didn't question your claim to HAVING a doctorate.

But I DO question the QUALITY of it .. BIG difference.

This thread has underscored a big issue that a doctorate in ministry should have prepared you for, but apparently has not. If you can't understand the basics of Biblical interpretation I've asked you to abide by which everyone else here seems to understand in one way or another, then what good is that doctorate?

And by the way, where is the World Vision University? Who credentialed this institution? Who holds the credentials there?

Remember, I asked for Scriptural evidence of the Serpent Seed teaching. THAT's why I started this thread .. not to bait you or malign you. It's becoming plainer to me that there really is NOTHING to this at all and that you defend an empty doctrine.

Will you go to hell for it? Probably not. But if you want to talk about red faces in the Judgment Day, I don't think mine will be quite as rosy as yours if you persist in this unbiblical error.

1 Corinthians 3:15

If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

I just pray mine be not red at all. Or yours, Blessed. I want you, more than you can imagine, to enjoy the rewards of your labor for our Lord. I don't want you to lose anything our Lord has for you.

This "message", however, is instead a hideous "mess." It is a blot on your robes, brother. Turn away from it speedily, I pray!



agape

rafael
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Last edited by Rafael D Martinez on 5/23/06 11:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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