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Why didn't Jesus pray for the World?
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Post Clowns theophorus
I personally know that Pete Zefo is a clown but not because of his recent post. He's just a clown.

Laughing
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Posts: 210
5/18/06 1:09 pm


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Post BlessedinMSTn said... Anakrino
"No No No,, contrare, contrare,, he saw the ones before they were born who wanted to say yes and for them he died....

Not for the world but for the Bride "

My question is what does the Bible have to say about that?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
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5/18/06 2:52 pm


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Post The Word Anakrino
Ro 3:22 - Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Ro 5:12 - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Ro 5:18 - Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

1 Cor 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. 16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
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5/18/06 3:06 pm


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Post Of course God loved the world BlessedinMsTn
they were his creation, for him to not love the world would have been against his very nature.. However,,,, and although we would love for the whole world to believe he KNEW they wouldnt and therefore he sent his son to die for those who would,,, because according to scripture

Whe he did foreknow he did predistinate unto salvation,,, no matter how much you dont like it, its the word,, there is a Bride Company the he foreknew and for them he died

He came to seek and to save THAT which was lost,,, that certain thing,, that certain people,, you see if he didnt foreknow them then he never lost them,, he did not come to seek and to save that which was never his
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5/18/06 4:23 pm


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Post Then perhaps Peter you wanna take a stab at the clear BlessedinMsTn
and concise scripture....

We will await your discourse on the clear meaning of this scripture....

Romans 8:29 - For whom he did foreknow, (to know beforehand) he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Perhaps you want to elaborate to this community why God (according to this own word) wrote the names of the elected before he ever created them?

Perhaps you might tell us why Jesus told his disciples that they did not choose him ( they didnt have the power to choose him) but rather he chose them!!!!!

Explain these words to us our dear Peter:
Romans 11:2 - God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Election Meaning in its original - Ecloge
1) the act of picking out, choosing

a) of the act of God's free will by which before the foundation of the world he decreed his blessings to certain persons

God's elect

Should I continue PROOF TEXTING, actually all I am doing is quoting Gods Word... if that is proof texting, you'll forgive me
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5/18/06 10:27 pm


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Post Peter, cant we both buy books on top of books in defense BlessedinMsTn
of our own views... AS a matter of fact I am reading a book now in defense of polygamy where the author is a scholar at Regent University who can PROVE where Polygamy is not forbidden by God . . . SO my point being although I do not believe in Polygamy I am as open as you are to reading books about subject to which I do not agree...

I also find it quite interesting that instead of dealing with the explicit scripture that I rendered to you, you chose to promote a new book you have found..... stands to reason

Now, I am proud that you found a nice new book to read that rails against Calvanism..... In major publishing houses there are over 800 books that rail against Arminianism . . . . .I render to you the worlds from historys greatest and most revered preacher, and I quote

""The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."—C. H. Spurgeon"

So, the point being that your wonderful new book does nothing to destroy Calvanisitc thinking as the worlds greatest theologians and preachers are Calvanist,,, you'll just have to deal with that. It would indeed be interesting to see a young man such as yourself sitting in argument with C.H. Spurgeon

Now lets deal with the bulleted list that you gave to me:::
# 1 - God causes people to sin- - - --
Lets deal with this Peter.... You and I and the entire church world has believe a fantasy we were taught in Sunday School.. We were taught that Satan was created perfect, without sin, without evil,,,,, and that one day he chose to become evil and turn against God and start a war with God and poor pitiful God was caught so off guard by Satans CHOICE that he has been trying to beat Satan every sin . . . . . . .VAIN BABBLE,,,, thats all this is . . . . You see Jesus knew the truth about Satan when he revealed it to his disciples he said "Satan was a MURDERED from his BEGINNING ''''' Not a beautiful and perfect angel but a MURDERER he was created with sin already in him to become exactly what he became . . . . . .Who do you think put the ability to become evil in him? GOD DID because GOD IS SOVEREIGN,,,,, God can do no evil therefore he created Satan to do what he cannot and will not do . . . .

Isa 45:71 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].

It is God who created evil that the law of contrast might be fulfilled and his goodness displayed . . Without darkness there is no appreciation of light,,, without evil there is no worship due to a God of goodness,, for no one even knows anything besides goodness if there is no eveil . . .

You see, the Lord knew that he would have to destroy people,, it is against his nature to destroy,, so he sends Satan to do it,,,

Isa 54:16 - Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Why did he create the waster, SATAN? that he might destroy,, in the NEw Testament we are reminded of the job of Satan, TO DESTROY

He is created as an instrument in the hand of God to bring destruction that God might bring restoration . .. you see Satan was sitting in the throneroom of God when God told him about Job,, notice Satan didnt volunteer for the job he was ASSIGNED the job,, fulfilling the purpose for which he was created,,,,,,

Romans 9:17 - For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth

Once again, God using evil to bring to pass his purposes of deliverence for his children,,,, you see its all a great drama and God has written the script in advance we all play our parts ., ., . . . . .

Judas was born "that the scriptures might be fulfilled"

Amos 3:6 - Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done [it]?

Evil WAS created by God and is USED by GOD to fulfill his purposes . . . .

How did Jesus not hate the men who were killing him,,, he realized they were BORN to do what they were doing "that the scriptures might be fulfilled"

Satan had to be real bad so that God could be real Good . . . .

Remember, it is the LORD that giveth and the LORD that taketh away.... ALso remember that JOB knew God
and he said with such clarity "When HE (not Satan) but when GOD hath tried me, I shall come forth as pure Gold"

Babylon, that horrible city with such tyrants,,, such God haters,,, were called a "golden cup in the hand of the Lord" in other words he is Soveriengn,,, if I truly believe this then it sets me free to "give thanks in all things,,,,,,,, with this revelation then """" I know this IS THE WILL OF GOD concerning me"

Whatever I'm going through right now IS THE WILL OF GOD concerning me,, wheter evil or good . . . .

They asked Jesus about the blind man, they said WHO HAS SINNED,, he said "No one" this blindess is so the WORKS OF GOD might be manifest.... Blindness was allowed by the Lord,, it wasnt Satans word but GODS WORK through the instrument of SATAN

You see Satan has a ministry of perfecting the SOns of God . . . . . . .Jesus was sent to Satan that he might be TESTED to prove his Sonship

Paul tells us about unruly church memeber, that we should "deliver them unto Satan for the DESTRUCTION OF THEIR FLESH" you see Satans ministry is to obey God in the destroying of his Sons until their flesh is destroyed and they are mature in Christ,, being counted worthy of their calling . . . . .trust me I have 32 other scriptures I would love to reference, perhaps another time
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5/19/06 3:27 pm


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Post Peter, cant we both buy books on top of books in defense BlessedinMsTn
Sorry, double post,, not intended
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5/19/06 3:28 pm


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Post Peter, I was hoping for more than a comment BlessedinMsTn
In my previous two post I have laid out my thoughts on this subject with my scriptural reference, you have not done this in either of your replies... I will look forward to a more in depth discussion
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5/19/06 6:35 pm


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Post thoughts from a newbie Holzman
He addressed the world later, this savior of the world, your savior, my savior, the homeless mans savior, the drunks savior, the drug addicts savior, the pastor who doesn't’t tend to his flocks savior, those that think they are better than others savior, those that beat Him and crucified him, etc….because we are all the same people it was all of our sins that put him on that cross…… “forgive them father, they don’t know what they are doing”, he addressed the world in that prayer and he accomplished what he came to do. Now the question why did he not address the world in the prayer in John? I don’t know what the exact truth is or the exact reason is, but I can tell you what I believe. He prayed for his friends that he spent every day with just like you and I would when we were going to leave them or when we know they are going to go through a tough time or when they are beginning a new chapter in there life, we pray for them. What did he pray for? To keep them from destruction, to keep them in unity and to sanctify them in truth. This wasn't’t a bout predestination this was about a friends love and concern for one another and wanting them to succeed in what they do. By the way this is my 1st post, I just found out about this board today.
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5/31/06 7:26 pm


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