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Are All Rapes Created Equal?
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Post Some trees be taller thin others old time clergyman
But yuh kin hang a rapist from it jest as well. Hey, DOC
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4/28/06 8:02 am


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Post All rape is wrong no matter what the motivation, but... Anakrino
Are we thinking rationally?

Do some of you actually believe that a woman's actions (or how she presents herself) never lead to or encourage rape? To say that rape is always about power/control and never about human sexuality is absurd. Is murder always about power....no, there are many motivating factors to murder. The same is true of the horrendous crime of rape. And yes, I did just compare rape to murder. Different men rape others (men are raped by men as well as women) for different reasons and motivations. Is rape ever justified? Absolutely not!!!

Does a woman, young or old, ever put herself in a position, by her actions or presentation, that sexually entices a man and makes it more likely that he will rape her if he is so inclined? I say "Yes!" and it doesn't make me ill-informed or evil. It is just my opinion based on my observation of human behavior.
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4/28/06 8:19 am


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Post Re: All rape is wrong no matter what the motivation, but... Memory03
Anakrino wrote:
Are we thinking rationally?

Do some of you actually believe that a woman's actions (or how she presents herself) never lead to or encourage rape? To say that rape is always about power/control and never about human sexuality is absurd. Is murder always about power....no, there are many motivating factors to murder. The same is true of the horrendous crime of rape. And yes, I did just compare rape to murder. Different men rape others (men are raped by men as well as women) for different reasons and motivations. Is rape ever justified? Absolutely not!!!

Does a woman, young or old, ever put herself in a position, by her actions or presentation, that sexually entices a man and makes it more likely that he will rape her if he is so inclined? I say "Yes!" and it doesn't make me ill-informed or evil. It is just my opinion based on my observation of human behavior.




you make very valid points. while it is totally up to all people to control their actions. ANYONE can be seduced... the trouble seems to be that when some people get their motor cranked they automatically want to race, they are not content to idle...
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4/28/06 8:26 am


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Post rape is rape .. (links) Rafael D Martinez
Memory03 wrote:
Rafael D Martinez wrote:
Or anyone close to you.

Let's see how lenient you'll be then.

Rape is RAPE. If any of my nieces, God forbid, EVER get in the situation where they foolishly enticed a boy due to their hormones flowing, and if in the end she realizes that this isn't where they wanted to be but found the boy unstoppable, do you think that's going to lessen my outrage or my desire to see justice done?

How does circumstance somehow "lessen" the violation of a woman's body by the force of a man's lust? If a woman says NO, even if she carnally and sensually entices with some wicked teasing, the man needs to zip it, take a shower and leave. Just because she seems like she's being the way she is never excuses the act of violence.

All you seem to be setting forth to do is somehow defend the act of violence as if one degree is worse than another .. Dude, you just love stirring the pots of the outrageous, don't you?

agape

rafael



Raf, I totally respect everything you say. But you/Me/everyone must understand that we all react differently when anything tragic hits close to home. I am taking an objective view. I don't trust everyone who cries wolf, especially when they have done it more than once.


We are talking about Yo Dude's posited situation:

If the police find out in Rape Situation 1 that the man rapes a woman because she refused consent, how is the "situation lessened" if the woman in Rape Situation 2 where she at first enticed him then refused consent? How do you some how say one is "worse" than the other. Nobody wins in these. It's crazy to believe that.

What if it came out during investigation that a rape wasn't a rape at all but was consensual sex that the woman tried to turn into a rape case?

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_74901.asp

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_78880.asp

(these links are explicit)

The truth will come out if police do their job and witnesses are good.

In this case, 7 UTC athletes were accused of raping a girl under Finley Stadium last fall. The articles show how the truth came out that the woman had consensual sex with multiple partners. Admittedly not all cases are as easy to prove, but the point is that the charge of rape was so serious these young men were kicked off their team and out of school .. BEFORE the trial even ended and the judge dismissed charges. It was a sleazy world of morally corrupt men and women this occurred in, but the police didn't care. The DA and judges didn't care.

Yo's catching it here and rightfully so. To try to minimize by "degrees of severity" this vile act is just WRONG.

agape

rafael
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4/28/06 8:35 am


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Post Rape is violence SkyPilot
Rape is about violence, assault, pain and degradation. It is the experience of power over the powerlessness. It is brutal and should never be excused, mitigated, condoned or set-aside. All rape should carry appropriate and similar sentencing.

Rape is wrong and rape is violence -- there is nothing "sexual" about rape.

To believe that one rape is somehow different than another because of the occupation, flirtatiousness, situation or any other factor is to lessen the impact of the violence. If I am in a bad neighborhood and I am assaulted it should be treated the same as if I am in a good neighborhood. Terrorism is terrorism whether I am in Oklahoma City or The Gaza Strip. Theft is theft no matter the circumstances. If I am stupid and I flash a roll of $100 bills does not negate the severity of the crime nor the punishment that accompanies it.

The only caveat to this line of reasoning would be if a person is involved in something illegal and it directly leads to the crime against them. For instance, I am selling drugs and I get beat up by my supplier for loosing a nickel bag or for being late with my payments. But even that, when taken to the extreme, would indicate one life is worth less than another, i.e. dealer killed in drug turf war.

All people, no matter their status......are equally Worthy of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, therefore any crime against a person is equal to all other similar crimes and should carry equal sentencing.
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4/28/06 10:11 am


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Post A female's viewpoint who's been there... lftp80
First off, I think YoDude has some very valid points. I have nieces, sisters, friends, etc - that if, God forbid, something like this ever happened to them I would definitely want the book thrown at the offender. BUT - I would have to examine the ENTIRE situation.

That said - here is a personal story. Several years ago, at a backslidden stage in my life, I found myself in a very uncomfortable and WRONG situation. I made the choice and through my own actions put myself in a position that I realized I wanted out of but it was too late!

When the moment of clarity and truth hit me and I wanted out, I couldn't - I had no choice but to either become violent and risked being physically hurt, or to continue and act as though it was consensual. I already knew the strength and control this guy possessed. I was more scared of trying to contest that, than just going ahead with everything that was happening. I know that I would have been what is socially called "raped" - if I would have tried to get away. But instead, I chose to not fight, and consented, and left peacefully - then promptly quit my job the next morning (the guy was my boss) and left the state!

I could have pressed charges. How stupid would that have been? I made the choice and put myself in that position!!!! It was my fault!!! Do I want him to be punished?? Yeah. I feel sure I'm not the only one that had been in that position with him. But at that moment - I made the choice - there was no way out. I did not physically say "NO" b/c I knew it was too late and there was no use. Tears are falling as I write this, b/c I've never really talked about it much, but I felt it needed to be said.

The choices I made put me in the position I was in. To me that is not the same as walking down the street, or being in my home, and someone raping me. It is a different situation - consequences, IMHO should be different. Unless, like said before, the guy is a repeat offender, etc.

I was raised in a Christian home, my Dad is an evangelist. I have been in church my whole life. I wasn't starved for affection or needing attention. I had a good life. I made a BAD choice. I pay for the consequences everyday. I realize that some women live the lifestyle they do b/c they feel it's the only way. We all know there are better ways to make money! The gutter way is not the only way! Everyone knows that and we need to let those that are blinded to that realize they are worth so much more! God sent His son for ALL of us. We do need to reach out to those who've never known a Godly lifestyle.

But to those like me, who know a better way - I made the choice. IMHO all rapes are NOT created equal. To me, I was raped, to you, it may have sounded like I had consensual sex.

Those girls are dancers. They know what comes with the territory. They know what they are paid to do. Does that mean they deserved to be raped?? NO!!! By all means NO!! BUT, the situation is different! Do the offenders deserve to be punished? YES. Of course. But not the same as someone who breaks into peoples houses and rapes innocent women and children.

All is IMHO and with love.
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4/28/06 10:38 am


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Post "there is nothing "sexual" about rape. " Anakrino
What????

What are you talking about? What kind of pseudo-science brought you to that conclusion? The truth is that rape is about "sex" and it's also sometimes about power and control, while other times it's just about violence.

Here is one study by the Harvard School of Public Health that demonstrates one factor for rape:

"Drinking Environments Increase Risks
Rape is more common on college campuses with higher rates of binge drinking – and alcohol use is a central factor in most college rapes, finds a new study released by the Harvard College Alcohol Study.
Overall, one in 20 (4.7 percent) women reported being raped in college since the beginning of the school year – a period of approximately 7 months – and nearly three-quarters of those rapes (72 percent) happened when the victims were so intoxicated they were unable to consent or refuse. These were among the findings of a study of 119 schools nationwide, by researchers at the Harvard School of Public Health College Alcohol Study, Saint Joseph's University and the University of Arizona, published in the January 2004 issue of the Journal of Studies on Alcohol.

Most significantly, women from colleges with medium and high binge-drinking rates had more than a 1.5-fold increased chance of being raped while intoxicated than those from schools with low binge- drinking rates. "
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4/28/06 2:08 pm


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Post Re: A female's viewpoint who's been there... Memory03
lftp80 wrote:
First off, I think YoDude has some very valid points. I have nieces, sisters, friends, etc - that if, God forbid, something like this ever happened to them I would definitely want the book thrown at the offender. BUT - I would have to examine the ENTIRE situation.

That said - here is a personal story. Several years ago, at a backslidden stage in my life, I found myself in a very uncomfortable and WRONG situation. I made the choice and through my own actions put myself in a position that I realized I wanted out of but it was too late!

When the moment of clarity and truth hit me and I wanted out, I couldn't - I had no choice but to either become violent and risked being physically hurt, or to continue and act as though it was consensual. I already knew the strength and control this guy possessed. I was more scared of trying to contest that, than just going ahead with everything that was happening. I know that I would have been what is socially called "raped" - if I would have tried to get away. But instead, I chose to not fight, and consented, and left peacefully - then promptly quit my job the next morning (the guy was my boss) and left the state!

I could have pressed charges. How stupid would that have been? I made the choice and put myself in that position!!!! It was my fault!!! Do I want him to be punished?? Yeah. I feel sure I'm not the only one that had been in that position with him. But at that moment - I made the choice - there was no way out. I did not physically say "NO" b/c I knew it was too late and there was no use. Tears are falling as I write this, b/c I've never really talked about it much, but I felt it needed to be said.

The choices I made put me in the position I was in. To me that is not the same as walking down the street, or being in my home, and someone raping me. It is a different situation - consequences, IMHO should be different. Unless, like said before, the guy is a repeat offender, etc.

I was raised in a Christian home, my Dad is an evangelist. I have been in church my whole life. I wasn't starved for affection or needing attention. I had a good life. I made a BAD choice. I pay for the consequences everyday. I realize that some women live the lifestyle they do b/c they feel it's the only way. We all know there are better ways to make money! The gutter way is not the only way! Everyone knows that and we need to let those that are blinded to that realize they are worth so much more! God sent His son for ALL of us. We do need to reach out to those who've never known a Godly lifestyle.

But to those like me, who know a better way - I made the choice. IMHO all rapes are NOT created equal. To me, I was raped, to you, it may have sounded like I had consensual sex.

Those girls are dancers. They know what comes with the territory. They know what they are paid to do. Does that mean they deserved to be raped?? NO!!! By all means NO!! BUT, the situation is different! Do the offenders deserve to be punished? YES. Of course. But not the same as someone who breaks into peoples houses and rapes innocent women and children.

All is IMHO and with love.




I am so sorry for all the pain and suffering you are/have experiencing/experienced. I know that it was very tough for you to post that. I don't think for one minute that any of us condemn nor sit in judgment of you. I pray that God's grace is sufficient for you and will totally heal you. You are loved here!
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4/28/06 8:36 pm


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Post Yodude: StevDav
Was you created equal?

That was a stupid post, come on man.

Rape is rape. Period.
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4/28/06 8:39 pm


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Post about power? Link
Who invented that idea that rape is not about sex, but about power. It was probably some feminist woman who did not know what she was talking about.

Maybe it was some liberals who were against outlawing pornography. You know Bundy started off as a porn addict I hear.

If rape were only about power, and not sex, then rapists would give women noogies, or beat them up, instead of raping them.

It does make sense to say that rape is not about sex. My guess it is some kind of indoctrination used in some kind of self-help program for rape victims. Some women who go to battered women's shelters are indoctrinated to believe that if a man is violent toward women, he will always be that way. I suppose that keeps the women from going back, but it is contrary to the teaching of scripture since man in Christ is a new creation.

On the issue of rape, I can understand YoDude's point to a certain extent, but I don't really agree with it. If a girl teases a boy, and he rapes her, he still raped her. What bothers me is people getting bent out of shape if you tell a girl if she dresses or acts that way, she's more likely to get raped. They act like you are making excuses for rapists. No, it's just common sense. If a girl dresses like a prostitute on some mean streets of a city at 2 AM, that's not a safe thing to do.

YoDude said that he thought a guy who raped an innocent girl should be killed. Is that Biblical? In the Old Testament, a man who raped a virgin would be forced to pay the bride price for her, and would have to marry her if her father consented, and never divorce her. The passages on the subject don't clearly mention it, but judges were also empowered to give up to 40 stripes to an offender.
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4/29/06 4:46 am


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Post StevDav... Yo Dude
Man, think for yourself, and don't just spout the liberal ideology.

No one is arguing that rape is ever justified. But when you mix raging hormones, provocative actions/dress, and alcohol, you get something a bit different from a 40-year-old man forcing himself on a 14-year-old.

And something different from a man breaking into the home of stranger and doing these things.

If a woman purposely places herself in such charged situations and then wants to act like she is as innocent in the matter as the chaste wife who thought she was locked safely in at home, we'll I'm afraid I must award you the "I am a tool of the feminist left" sign.

READ my post, and stop "just feelin'" it. I have never acted as if rape is justified. I have said, however, that there ARE mitigating circumstances, just as our legal system claims there to be in cases of murder.

Yes, the man should be punished. But are you trying to tell me that the woman who dressed provocatively, acted uber-sexual, etc., does not bear some responsibility.

Love ya, but that just ain't the case.
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4/29/06 11:38 am


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Post Re: Are All Rapes Created Equal? StevDav
Dressing provocative (Although wrong) is not breaking the law.
Drinking (although wrong) is not breaking the law.
Dancing (although wrong) is not breaking the law.

Rape however is breaking the law.
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4/29/06 11:54 am


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Post I have always thought about that statement and could not caseyleejones
figure it out.

Quote:
Rape is about power, not sex


It really makes no sense when you think about it.
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Post ! caseyleejones
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Post Re: ! Memory03
caseyleejones wrote:
Laughing






that's one way to jack up your post numbers casey... Wink
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4/29/06 1:30 pm


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Post all rape equal? define 'rape' sango malamu
I think what you all are discussing cannot even be decided by our Judaical system nor our political system. It is a warped justice system we live in.

True case as reported to me by both concerned.

Several years ago, a man and his wife assisting me in a church. They started have marital problems, partly his fault because of his work and attitude. One night after she had relented in to him, and during the act of intercourse she started screaming at him to stop, nearing his climax he refused to and she started fighting him. The next day he reported to me that she had called and lawyer and the police to charge him with rape.

They eventually ended up divorced.

Do you all define this as rape?


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4/30/06 2:41 pm


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Post Re: all rape equal? define 'rape' Link
sango malamu wrote:


Several years ago, a man and his wife assisting me in a church. They started have marital problems, partly his fault because of his work and attitude. One night after she had relented in to him, and during the act of intercourse she started screaming at him to stop, nearing his climax he refused to and she started fighting him. The next day he reported to me that she had called and lawyer and the police to charge him with rape.

They eventually ended up divorced.

Do you all define this as rape?


If I remember the details of my law class in high school, under Common Law, and under Georgia law, it is only rape if the act of penetration is forced or nonconsentual.

I don't think rape in marriage should be covered by the same set of laws as regular rape. Maybe they could classify some cases under the category of assault. Divorce courts recognize spouse have a right to 'consortion', which mean the law recognizes that married couples are to have sexual relations.

Just imagine if the wife says 'no' but the husband starts kissing her neck and yadayadayada, she goes along with it as an active participant without verbal consent. The next day, she charges him with rape because she said 'no.' I wonder how many men (or women) would not be in jail if this were defined as rape.
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4/30/06 10:21 pm


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Post Re: all rape equal? define 'rape' TheBeebs
sango malamu wrote:
I think what you all are discussing cannot even be decided by our Judaical system nor our political system. It is a warped justice system we live in.

True case as reported to me by both concerned.

Several years ago, a man and his wife assisting me in a church. They started have marital problems, partly his fault because of his work and attitude. One night after she had relented in to him, and during the act of intercourse she started screaming at him to stop, nearing his climax he refused to and she started fighting him. The next day he reported to me that she had called and lawyer and the police to charge him with rape.

They eventually ended up divorced.

Do you all define this as rape?



She consented to intercourse. What happened later is called "coitus interruptus"...or revenge.


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5/1/06 12:31 am


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Post Re: I have always thought about that statement and could not TheBeebs
caseyleejones wrote:
figure it out.

Quote:
Rape is about power, not sex


It really makes no sense when you think about it.


Tell ya what, Casey. We'll let you and Link spend a couple of weeks at Parchman Pen and see if you change your mind.


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Post Re: all rape equal? define 'rape' Land of Middle Girth
TheBeebs wrote:
sango malamu wrote:
I think what you all are discussing cannot even be decided by our Judaical system nor our political system. It is a warped justice system we live in.

True case as reported to me by both concerned.

Several years ago, a man and his wife assisting me in a church. They started have marital problems, partly his fault because of his work and attitude. One night after she had relented in to him, and during the act of intercourse she started screaming at him to stop, nearing his climax he refused to and she started fighting him. The next day he reported to me that she had called and lawyer and the police to charge him with rape.

They eventually ended up divorced.

Do you all define this as rape?



She consented to intercourse. What happened later is called "coitus interruptus"...or revenge.



I wonder how many "rapes" are actually revenge.
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