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If Shrimp and Lobster are an ABOMINATION (link included)
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Post If Shrimp and Lobster are an ABOMINATION (link included) Yo Dude
according to the Bible...why do we allow that now, but not another well-known abomination?

Saw some great and similar questions on Fallwell.com--a pro-gay site that purposely uses Falwell's name. It is the most respectful anti-fundamentalism site that I believe I have seen--and intelligent.

Asks some very good questions.
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Post Re: If Shrimp and Lobster are an ABOMINATION (link included) TheoloJohn
Homosexual acts are still abominations because the New Testament still condemns them as sins against God, against one's fellow man, and against nature.

Eating shrimp and lobster are no longer abominations because God said all foods were now clean for the New Covenant believer. Jesus said it in his ministry, and God reiterated this point to Peter in Acts 10.
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Post Out of context Tracy S Hamilton
TheoloJohn,

Don't want to mess you up but that is really taking scripture out of context. Eating that will not keep you out of heaven, but it is still not good for your body.

Acts 10 is not talking about food. He was talking about the Gentiles in verse 15. when he said.... "don't call anything unclean that God has made clean."

He was letting Peter know that he needed to go to the Gentiles and share the word. If you continue reading you will never find anywhere in scripture that Peter ever ate anything that was "unclean", but he did go and preach to the house of Cornelius.

Many have used this passage to say it's OK to eat anything they want. And the fact is.... you can...... but you will still pay the price at some point because it is not a matter of salvation but of the quality of life you live.


Just some thoughts.


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4/21/06 8:24 pm


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Post Re: Out of context The PH Bullet
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
TheoloJohn,

Don't want to mess you up but that is really taking scripture out of context. Eating that will not keep you out of heaven, but it is still not good for your body.

Acts 10 is not talking about food. He was talking about the Gentiles in verse 15. when he said.... "don't call anything unclean that God has made clean."

He was letting Peter know that he needed to go to the Gentiles and share the word. If you continue reading you will never find anywhere in scripture that Peter ever ate anything that was "unclean", but he did go and preach to the house of Cornelius.

Many have used this passage to say it's OK to eat anything they want. And the fact is.... you can...... but you will still pay the price at some point because it is not a matter of salvation but of the quality of life you live.


Just some thoughts.


Tracy



That's not out of context at all. The context is food. When Peter fell into the trance he was *hungry* (verse 10). God sent the vision as food to a man who is starving, and says "kill and eat" and he does it three times.

The context is the ceremonial law. The Lord was showing Peter that it had been fulfilled. The prohibitions agains shellfish and all the other regulations that sometimes today don't make a lot of sense in our culture were based upon one thing-separation of God's people from the Gentiles as holy. Many parts of the ceremonial law had physical benefits as well, but the primary thing was to completely set apart God's people from their heathen neighbors.

Now God says-kill and eat. And by the way, as you mull it over in your mind I'm about to send you to a Gentile to minister to him. You need to treat him just like a Jewish brother and love him, because all things are now clean. The ceremonial law no longer separates.

Jameison Fausett Brown Commenatry says:
Act 10:15 -
What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common — The ceremonial distinctions are at an end, and Gentiles, ceremonially separated from the chosen people (Act_10:2Cool, and debarred from that access to God in the visible ordinances of His Church which they enjoyed, are now on a perfect equality with them.

John Gill said:
what God hath cleansed; that is, hath pronounced clean and lawful to be used, as he now had all sorts of food, Mat_15:11. Distinctions both of men and meats were now to be laid aside; and the Jews themselves own, that what is now unclean, will be clean in the time to come, or the times of the Messiah; they say (f),



Matthew Henry said:
What God hath cleansed, that call thou not common. He that made the law might alter it when he pleased, and reduce the matter to its first state. God had, for reasons suited to the Old Testament dispensation, restrained the Jews from eating such and such meats, to which, while that dispensation lasted, they were obliged in conscience to submit; but he has now, for reasons suited to the New Testament dispensation, taken off that restraint, and set the matter at large - has cleansed that which was before polluted to us, and we ought to make use of, and stand fast in, the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free, and not call that common or unclean.






so I believe it's narrow and out of context to make it either/or...because the vision clearly speaks both to animals to eat, and souls to receive. God is calling them clean. It's about the ceremonial law.


Just some thoughts.

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Post Re: If Shrimp and Lobster are an ABOMINATION (link included) philunderwood
to say that peter's vision was about food, and that that was the context, is an abomination!

he "used" food as an illustrator to show the age had passed from law/exclusion to grace/inclusion. sure, that legitimized eating what you want, but as tracy said, it will be at your own risk. we cannot believe food was the context whether peter was hungry or not.
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Post Re: If Shrimp and Lobster are an ABOMINATION (link included) TheoloJohn
I was not making Peter's vision "all about food." I said that God reiterated the fact that He had made all foods "clean" in giving that vision. Yes, I am aware that all foods being clean was only the illustration in that vision, but one cannot escape the fact that the vision was also about food and not just about Gentiles being brought into the kingdom.

This vision, while obviously about the issue of Gentiles now being included in the people of God, makes its point by referring to something God had said before in Jesus' ministry--that God had now made all foods clean. Therefore, the idea that we are being inconsistent by forbidding homosexual activity and then eating shellfish is only an inconsistency for those who reject the New Testament itself. The fact that all foods were now no longer considered unclean by God is stated or clearly implied many times in the New Testament, just as is the fact that homosexual activity is still a detestable thing in God's sight. (I will gladly provide all Scripture references pertinent to this discussion if any are in doubt on regarding these two plain facts, but for the time being I have to run).

Of course, I realize that unless he has changed his position, philunderwood believes that people can be practicing homosexuals and genuinely born again Christians at the same time, but that is another issue altogether. I can't wait to see him argue that God has now made homosexual activity okay.
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Post Re: If Shrimp and Lobster are an ABOMINATION (link included) The PH Bullet
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Post Re: If Shrimp and Lobster are an ABOMINATION (link included) philunderwood
i was trying to be humorous saying that was an abomination. didn't work. Shocked
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Post Re: If Shrimp and Lobster are an ABOMINATION (link included) The PH Bullet
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Post Out of context?....Show me Tracy S Hamilton
Again, I will say... Show me where Peter ever ate anything that God declared "unclean"..... I believe if this was an issue of food. Why did scripture not tell us that Peter went and ate all the unclean foods that God had already forbid him to eat.

The answer is simple: because this passage is not about food. TheoloJohn said that God "reiterated" the fact. My question would be... If God was talking about food..... where did he say the first time to eat anything you want. He didn't.

Please understand...... you CAN eat anything you want. Just understand the fact that you will pay the price at some point in time. What you eat is not a matter of your salvation, but a matter of the quality of life that you will have.

What God gave the Jewish people as dietary laws were for their benefit. Why? Because God created everything for a purpose. Some animals he created to clean the mess up so the clean animals could eat in the proper environment. God created everything but he didn't create everything to be put on the table to eat.

Something on shellfish you might like to know. And by the way.... Lobster, crab-legs, shrimp...... i loved them ALL!!!!
But when scientist want to check the toxicity of water. In other words, if they want to check the levels of poisons in the water. One of the main ways they do that is by sticking an instrument into shrimp, lobsters and crabs to get their readings.

I do know that most people use these scriptures to justify eating anything they want. But if the Bible is not enough, even when scientific proof is there that certain things are detrimental to our health and we keep eating it anyway...... do we really need to keep coming to God and asking him to heal us when we get sick..... ..... But, I'm glad we can.

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4/22/06 10:59 pm


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Post Let me save ya'll some time. TheBeebs
Any of you who think that seafood is an abomination, send it to me. I'll risk it.


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4/23/06 12:37 am


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Post Re: If Shrimp and Lobster are an ABOMINATION (link included) TheoloJohn
The vision makes no point at all if in fact God had not called all foods clean. I agree that the broader point of the vision was that we should not consider any people unclean, but God had indeed called all foods now clean or else Peter's vision is sheer nonsense and contradictory to God's own word.

Paul's writings also further deal with the issue of how much of the Old Testament Law still applies under the New.

As far as what's healthy for you, that is an entirely different, though related, subject.
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Post Re: Out of context TheoloJohn
Tracy S Hamilton wrote:
TheoloJohn,

Don't want to mess you up but that is really taking scripture out of context.


Hi Tracy,

Of course, given your assumption that I was saying that Peter's vision in Acts 10 was solely concerned with unclean and clean foods, I can see why you would assume that I was taking scripture out of context. However, as I said in my followup post, I was not saying that Peter's vision was all about food.

Therefore, your response certainly hasn't "messed me up" in the least.

Blessings,

John
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Post Ugh..not this again ijustwanttopraiseGod
Lobsters and Shrimp Are and always will be the 'cockroaches' of the sea....eat them if you like...no you won't go to hell for eating them, but good grief....the Lord was ONLY trying to let us know what's good for us and what aint......ask your doctor...he'll tell you the same...they feed off the bottom of the sea and do a little research and you'll find out whats on the bottom of the sea....sludge...ewww...same reason God put pigs here...to keep the place clean...ya know...they'll eat anything...and it's stored in their fat....some things just aren't considered food....or else we'd be digging up corpses...ewwww...
Eat whatever ya like...but some things just aren't good for ya...when in doubt...go to the instruction manual...He aint left nothing out... Smile
Blessings....
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Post Re: If Shrimp and Lobster are an ABOMINATION (link included) The PH Bullet
TheoloJohn wrote:
The vision makes no point at all if in fact God had not called all foods clean. I agree that the broader point of the vision was that we should not consider any people unclean, but God had indeed called all foods now clean or else Peter's vision is sheer nonsense and contradictory to God's own word.

Paul's writings also further deal with the issue of how much of the Old Testament Law still applies under the New.

As far as what's healthy for you, that is an entirely different, though related, subject.


exactly. It was about the end of the ceremonial law. He's not saying you must eat the formerly unclean stuff, or even that it's good for you. No one has said that.

He's simply saying you now won't be cut off from your people for doing so. You are free to eat. You are also free to wear clothes with mixed fibers. You are now free in Christ, and that also means you better not turn your nose up a the Gentile who will be placed in your path to minister to.

Nobody said it was JUST about food folks. But is IS about food. The entire context demands it. Food was a part of the ceremonial law. Ergo...



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Post Having some fun with "out of context" Tracy S Hamilton
John,

Hey, the part of taking the passage out of context was suppose to be a little humor..... but I guess it was very little.

But I still believe that the particular passage doesn't have anything to do with food. But we can agree to disagree.

And I do agree with you. These foods are not good for you. I am just still amazed that people use this passage to say that they can eat anything they want and then wonder why certain things come their way.

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Post Re: If Shrimp and Lobster are an ABOMINATION (link included) Porpoise Driven Neptune
abc

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Post Re: If Shrimp and Lobster are an ABOMINATION (link included) TheoloJohn
1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons,
1Ti 4:2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, being seared in their own conscience,
1Ti 4:3 forbidding to marry, saying to abstain from foods which God has created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creation of God is good, and nothing to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving.
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified through the Word of God and prayer.


I honestly have to wonder about so many of those "Christian health gurus" that pretty much say eating certain foods are sinful, and say that we all should go back to eating a "kosher" diet as stipulated by the Old Testament Law. Are they fulfilling prophecy? Are they giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons? Quite possibly.

Pass the shrimp, honey...
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Post Re: If Shrimp and Lobster are an ABOMINATION (link included) Porpoise Driven Neptune
abc

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Post oh yeah! ijustwanttopraiseGod
Very Happy
1Ti 4:4 For every creation of God is good, and nothing to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving.

Thank You for the harvest we are about to receive...
Honey...pass the reefer!! Shocked

HA! oh my...tooo funny...
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