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were there any female apostles
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Post Highly Favored BlessedinMsTn
HighlyFavoured wrote:
Nope..not offended.

I have full assurance that in the end...I will be held accountable to God..not man.

And I am at peace with that.

I didn't ask for this calling on my life...or to walk in the office of a prophet...but it's there...whether it's to teach/preach to men or woman..he never specified..he just said go..and I finally answered to the call.

Have a blessed day!


You mentioned that you are a Prophet... please know that I believe women are perfectly allowed by God to PROPHESY..... and the examples of prophesying by women is found all through the scripture.... but EVERY TIME... that you find it with Huldah, Deborah or other women they were always "FORETELLING FUTURE EVENTS...

If this is what you are doing... then you are in doing exactly what God has allowed women to always do.. Foretell the future...
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10/22/08 10:58 am


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Post HighlyFavoured
Quote:
When did God ever in all of history allow a woman to rebuke a man?




So let men start teaching sunday school and ONLY let men teach the teens...we need to make this universal..when does this cross over?? I don't get it. It's like we are pulling at straws here. It doesn't look like any one is going to agree on this subject.

I respect you Blessed for you opinion in this matter. BUT in one of your posts you said to me:


if I must be honest and if you asked me I would tell you that I do not believe it is Gods perfect place for a woman to be.....

I would never ask you..I stopped seeking mans approval a long time ago.




[/b]
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10/22/08 12:25 pm


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Post I knew BlessedinMsTn
HighlyFavoured wrote:
Quote:
When did God ever in all of history allow a woman to rebuke a man?




So let men start teaching sunday school and ONLY let men teach the teens...we need to make this universal..when does this cross over?? I don't get it. It's like we are pulling at straws here. It doesn't look like any one is going to agree on this subject.

I respect you Blessed for you opinion in this matter. BUT in one of your posts you said to me:


if I must be honest and if you asked me I would tell you that I do not believe it is Gods perfect place for a woman to be.....

I would never ask you..I stopped seeking mans approval a long time ago.




[/b]


Highly Favored, I never thought you would ask a mans approval... I understood that from the beginning....
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10/22/08 1:37 pm


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Post Re: Keith Whitt - thanks for your posts on this thread... PastorJackson
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
Bro. Whitt

May I say how much I have always appreciated the tones of your post, I have and will continue to see the Word as more concrete than you propose it to be. If not, then who is the final authority? Who should we trust to correctly interpret it all for us? Are you telling us that you have interpreted it correctly? If so, then wonderful my brother. Can you say with complete assuredness that you are have attained that level? If so, then I am ready to follow.

If not then I feel very safe standing on the plain teaching of the scriptures concerning the place of men and women.

I have read your post, please don't think I havn't just skimmed through them but have given each of your example and honest examination.... I am prepared to address them now....

To me Brother, this goes beyond a woman preaching, this comes to the subject of "Proper Place or Positiing" in Gods Divine Order. How would it see to you if Christ had tried to place himself above his Father?

He never did it? Why not Brother, and please read my words... Why did Christ not try to instruct the Father? It was out of order and has been from the beginning.

Why can you and I as men not instruct Christ? Because he is our head.. we are under him in Gods Divine Order

Why can your children not instruct you wife have any authority over her? Because it is out of order

Why can a woman not rebuke a man nor have authority over him? Because my brother, it is the perversion of Gods order, is it not?

Now, lets look at your examples.... lets look at all your "exceptions" rather than the rule......

Can you at least agree with me that in all of history the MAN is traditionally in the Word of God, the leader? Except of course for Jezebel

Does scripture not tell us "I sought for a MAN"

Even in the original covenant.. was the Covenant not made through the circumcision of the MALE? The female could only enter into Covenant with God through the male?

We are talking about a God that changes not, arnt we? So an honest observation at all of history will confirm to us Gods ideal, will it not?

YOU SAID

1. As you know the Bible was not written in King James English. Anytime a word is translated into another language an element of the original is lost, hidden, or mistranslated (due to the bias of the translator -- that's the reason every RSV should be thrown away!). We "dig" to recover the original meaning, nuances, and authorial intent that may not be evident in English. This is then applied to the culture in which we minister, or is Scripture a concrete book for you? That is, it has only first-century meaning for us today. After all, none of us are Corinthians, Romans, Timothy, etc., so what we can apply today is really limited, according to your view.

MY RESPONSE

You may not believe this but I was aware that the Bible was not written in King James English. However I do believe in the Sovereignty of God and I believe the very same God that protected his Word and used humans to give us his words was just as able to protect it through translation to King James......

With that said. I also realize human frailties and I acknowledge that some words have lost original meaning......... and concerning women in ministry I could "go there" with you unless Paul had been aware of your attempt to undermine his words........ and he made provision for that by causing the issue to transcend culture and he brings it all the way back to EDEN.


Honest questions brother.

<B> YOU SAID<B>
2. Your prooftext (1 Tim 2:12) about a women not teaching a man was written in the present infinitive. It can well be translated, "At this point in time, I do not allow a woman to teach...." If he wanted to say that a woman may never teach, there were clear grammatical ways of saying that, but Paul did not use them, though he used them elswhere to prohibit things permanently. Perhaps, digging -- which is what I call intense Bible study -- is not so bad after all.

<B>MY RESPONSE<B>

Bro. Whitt, I take comfort in the fact that Paul does not pin this subject on culture but rather on "Beginnings" and Divine Order. So may I ask you how long in your understanding does he place a ban on "Bishops being the husband of one wife" was that also for a "period of time" did he use the grammar that you said was at his disposal to clarify this subject?

<B> YOU SAID <B>

3. So you believe Scripture is contradictory?

<B> MY RESPONSE <B>

NOT AT ALL

YOU SAID

Did Deborah (also a prophetess; Jud 4:4) not lead (i.e., exercise authority over men) Israel -- the church in the wilderness according to Stephen?

<B>MY RESPONSE<B>

Brother all women can prophesy. In our church any woman that has a Prophecy that she is willing to have judged by the elders is given the freedom to prophecy which is a "DIVINE UTTERANCE"

Do you not find it the least bit ironic that when referring to men in the NT. when referring to them as preaching the word prophesy is NEVER USED.. only with women......Why is this? Because not ONE TIME is a woman found PREACHING in the NT......

Let me define my understanding of preaching Bro. Whitt, you tell me where I am wrong... Actually let's let the first church age Messenger, Paul do that for us....

PREACH THE WORD - Ok, what does that mean... REBUKE, REPROVE, EXHORT

When did God ever in all of history allow a woman to rebuke a man?

Why would he start now?

Now, more about Deborah... you know as well as I do that scriptures teach us that ALL MEN had gone astray and NO MAN would do the job and just as God used a donkey... or even sinners before he will use what he must.. his ideal is to use a man

Deborah was referred to as a "mother in Israel" she WAS NOT Israels spiritual leader.. she was their JUDGE.. the JUDGES were the political leaders.. in war and otherwise....

Even Deborah knew she was OUT OF PLACE.... let her tell us in her own words

Judg 4:5 - And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.


Did they come to her for anything else besides her political position? NO.. she was a JUDGE.. she was a political leader.. not their PASTOR

God has always allowed women in political leadership because that is NOT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.. that is the KINGDOM OF DARKNESS of which Divine order means nothing

Lets continue


She begged Barak a MAN to lead the people of God.. he was too much of a coward to take his rightful place the leader and SHE KNEW SHE WAS OUT OF ORDER..... and she told him so

Judges 4:9 - And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour; for the LORD shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman. And Deborah arose, and went with Barak to Kedesh.

SHE TOLD HIM that the HONOR should go to a MAN not a WOMAN but because he WOULD NOT LEAD - she had to..... she was the EXCEPTION and NOT THE IDEAL

But look at what she says here once the battle is over

She did not say she arose as a PASTOR or LEADER she simply served a MOTHER to keep the nation together until Gods MAN would RISE UP and this man would be BARAK

Judges 5:7 The inhabitants of] the villages ceased, they ceased in Israel, until that I Deborah arose, that I arose a mother in Israel.

Then finally watch as Israel gets it IN ORDER ---- they along with Deborah recognize that Deborah is out of her place in having to lead the men of Israel -

Judges 5:12 - Awake, awake, Deborah: awake, awake, utter a song: arise, Barak, and lead thy captivity captive, thou son of Abinoam.


Awake Deborah and SING - Arise BARAK and LEAD

Finally the MAN God desired to use..... after Deborah served as a MOTHER in Israel.. he rose to his rightful place.. Deborah went to her rightful place.. and now BARAK is called to LEAD


<B>YOU SAID<B>

Does not a prophetess teach and conduct ministry (read Hulda's "Thus saith the Lord" to men in 2 Kgs 22:14-20; and Anna's message of salvation in Luke 2:26)?

<B> MY RESPONSE <B>

No they do not brother... a Prophetess gives a "thus saith the Lord" by divine utterance..... I find it so ironic that in the OT when one prophesied they were telling about "What was gonna happen" but now you guys try to make Prophesying TEACHINg or PREACHING... tell you what to make this fair... can you show ONE INSTANCE in the OT where Prophesying was anything besides "Forthtelling"?

If you can then we will talk more about what a Prophets supposed to do. THEY PROPHESY - they FORETELL

Hulda was not TEACHING, please brother.. please at least acknowledge she was FORETELLINg

It is amazing Bro. Whitt how you try to make Huldah some kind of leader of men.. when your own scriptures tell us she was the seamstress.. keeper of the warddrobe -

II KINGS 22:15 - Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, [even] all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:

WOW, a perfect example of PROPHESYING - I beg you Bro. Whitt what was she teaching? What was her sermon title? or her lesson title? She was not LEADING anyone or anything.. she was operating in the place that God has always allowed women to operate "DIVINE UTTERANCE OF FUTURE EVENTS"

Now when we arrive at the NT... you will try to tell us that when a woman is allowed to PROPHESY she is allowed to preach..... so for fair argument I beg you to show me ONE TIME in the OT where Prophesying meant anything other than what you just saw HULDAH doing........ when did the meaning change? When you dug and found the REAL meaning of Prophesying?

<B> YOU SAID <B>

Do female deacons (Phebe in Rom 16:1-2, where she is to be received "in the Lord") not exercise authority in the church?

<B> MY RESPONSE <B>

Oh dear Brother Whitt. those translators might have had more Divine Protection than you acknowledge when they translated this word into Servant... could it be that they knew that GOD CHANGES NOT and he had forbidden for a woman to have any authority over a man.......

I love how you AFTER DIGGING use the word DEACON here when Paul explains rather plainly her truly role in the church... she was a SUCCOURER

a female guardian, protectress, patroness, caring for the affairs of others and aiding them with her resources

She was a woman who SERVED as a patroness... she was obviously a wealthy women who used her resources to AID PEOPLE

How you can make a church Deacon out of this woman... when scripture forbids it.. just blows me away dear brother......

You cannot create what God has forbidden!

<B> YOU SAID <B>

Did Priscilla not help educate (teach) Apollos (Acts 18:26)? Interesting how many times she is named first, contrary to cultural norms (Acts 18:18; Rom 16:3)! What role did she serve in the church that met at her house (1 Cor 16:19)?

<B> MY RESPONSE <B>

And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto [them], and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

Notice Priscilla was SITTING IN THE CHURCH LISTENING.... when she HEARD Apollos preaching..... She was not LEADINg.. she was listening.... she and her husband (THEM) invited him home together they told him about a more perfect way...

End of story.. case dismissed.. nothing more, nothing less.... a private conversation in the confines of a womans home.. whre God happens to make her queen.. of her home... she was in perfect order here with her husband.....

Again not ONE TIME do we see her leading anything....

Concerning what role did she play at the church in their home? Probably the same one she played in the local church.. sitting and listening and loving people

Again until you can answer that question concretely.. .you know better than to build a doctrine on silence.

<B> YOU SAID <B>

What do you propose that Junia did that distinguished her from others among the apostles (using your view of Romans 16:7)?

<B> MY RESPONSE <B>
Again, silence, we can do nothing here.. we have nothing concrete, this scripture is debatable and you must acknowledge that.. and as such no doctrine can rest on this scripture.

<B> YOU SAID <B>

What is it your wife does, if it is not teaching? You've made it plain that you stopped her from preaching. And have you ever heard her teach? Then, did she not teach you?

<B> MY RESPONSE <B>

Brother, I would never disrespect you.. but you have mispoken here.. read her own testimony.. she came to me about her desire to speak only to men.... I made her do NOTHING



Bro. Whitt,, which questions have I refused to discuss that causes you to say that you will no longer discuss this?


With that said. I also realize human frailties and I acknowledge that some words have lost original meaning......... and concerning women in ministry I could "go there" with you unless Paul had been aware of your attempt to undermine his words........ and he made provision for that by causing the issue to transcend culture and he brings it all the way back to EDEN.

That is the 2nd time you have made that accusation that someone is attempting to undermine Paul's words. Because we question or disagree with YOUR interpretation does not mean we are undermining his words. Oh and for the record I still have not gotten a answer to my question I posted about showing me scriptural proof that women can not be apostles. Paul made admonitions to the church that was not his opinions but a direct mandate from God, ie Bishops being the husband of but 1 wife etc. Notice he did not say I, which takes it from a God centered command to a man centered one. Thanks I look forward to your answer.
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Post curly
Doesn't the Bible say , greet the brethren with a holy kiss. Now don't get me wrong. but I don't never greet the brethren with a holy or unholy kiss. Now if it said greet all the pretty sisters with a holy kiss, I think I might could manage that. My point is do we do everything that a verse in the Bible says to do? What about jewelry rings, makeup etc. I not again it , but fer it. nuck nuck nuck Acts Enthusiast
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Post Pastor Jackson BlessedinMsTn
FOLLOW ME as I FOLLOW CHRIST

We must believe that PAUL was the VOICE of his church age and as such he was FOLLOWING CHRIST... He told us to FOLLOW HIS COMMANDS

To now try and say "Well that was Paul"

Paul said if we preach any other doctrines than he preached.. it doesn't matter wer'e an Angel... we would be cursed.. thats a pretty concrete voice to follow......dont ya think?

So why try to diminish his commands to women as if its just a man speaking?

I love how you guys try to make this sound like just some chauvanist man speaking in a chauvnistic society and perhaps this was not Gods command....

Very next verse he took care of those who would try to say "he didn't mean what he said" he took it waaaaaay past his personal opinions...

VERY NEXT VERSE

For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

You see.. he brought it back to GOD and the BEGINNING... telling us that his teaching transcends custom and time
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10/22/08 3:50 pm


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Post Re: Pastor Jackson PastorJackson
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
FOLLOW ME as I FOLLOW CHRIST

We must believe that PAUL was the VOICE of his church age and as such he was FOLLOWING CHRIST... He told us to FOLLOW HIS COMMANDS

To now try and say "Well that was Paul"

Paul said if we preach any other doctrines than he preached.. it doesn't matter wer'e an Angel... we would be cursed.. thats a pretty concrete voice to follow......dont ya think?

So why try to diminish his commands to women as if its just a man speaking?

I love how you guys try to make this sound like just some chauvanist man speaking in a chauvnistic society and perhaps this was not Gods command....

Very next verse he took care of those who would try to say "he didn't mean what he said" he took it waaaaaay past his personal opinions...

VERY NEXT VERSE

For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

You see.. he brought it back to GOD and the BEGINNING... telling us that his teaching transcends custom and time


Excuse me what do you mean you guys? I have never tried to make it sound like that, next I see what you are saying, but this really contradicts Joel. Why would God pour out his Spirit and all of the gifts that are for "everyone" if he did not want them to be used by 1/2?
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10/22/08 6:21 pm


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Post Re: Pastor Jackson BlessedinMsTn
PastorJackson wrote:
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
FOLLOW ME as I FOLLOW CHRIST

We must believe that PAUL was the VOICE of his church age and as such he was FOLLOWING CHRIST... He told us to FOLLOW HIS COMMANDS

To now try and say "Well that was Paul"

Paul said if we preach any other doctrines than he preached.. it doesn't matter wer'e an Angel... we would be cursed.. thats a pretty concrete voice to follow......dont ya think?

So why try to diminish his commands to women as if its just a man speaking?

I love how you guys try to make this sound like just some chauvanist man speaking in a chauvnistic society and perhaps this was not Gods command....

Very next verse he took care of those who would try to say "he didn't mean what he said" he took it waaaaaay past his personal opinions...

VERY NEXT VERSE

For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

You see.. he brought it back to GOD and the BEGINNING... telling us that his teaching transcends custom and time


Excuse me what do you mean you guys? I have never tried to make it sound like that, next I see what you are saying, but this really contradicts Joel. Why would God pour out his Spirit and all of the gifts that are for "everyone" if he did not want them to be used by 1/2?


Pastor Jackson... do you not read my writing? Honestly, I have always said that women were in perfect order to PROPHESY... but not to teach, preach, correct. lead or instruct men in the ways of God... it puts her out of her place.. her husband is to teach her and the children in the ways of God....

Propesying in every instance of scripture is telling something of DIVINE UTTERANCE>. it is not a prepared sermon of instruction.. When Abagus PROPHESIED he told what was gonna soon happen to Paul...

Women are perfectly in their right to prophesy....... this is not a Five Fold Ministry position in the church.. it is a gift and every believer is entitled to the gifts of the Spirit
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10/22/08 6:34 pm


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Post Re: Pastor Jackson PastorJackson
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
PastorJackson wrote:
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
FOLLOW ME as I FOLLOW CHRIST

We must believe that PAUL was the VOICE of his church age and as such he was FOLLOWING CHRIST... He told us to FOLLOW HIS COMMANDS

To now try and say "Well that was Paul"

Paul said if we preach any other doctrines than he preached.. it doesn't matter wer'e an Angel... we would be cursed.. thats a pretty concrete voice to follow......dont ya think?

So why try to diminish his commands to women as if its just a man speaking?

I love how you guys try to make this sound like just some chauvanist man speaking in a chauvnistic society and perhaps this was not Gods command....

Very next verse he took care of those who would try to say "he didn't mean what he said" he took it waaaaaay past his personal opinions...

VERY NEXT VERSE

For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

You see.. he brought it back to GOD and the BEGINNING... telling us that his teaching transcends custom and time


Excuse me what do you mean you guys? I have never tried to make it sound like that, next I see what you are saying, but this really contradicts Joel. Why would God pour out his Spirit and all of the gifts that are for "everyone" if he did not want them to be used by 1/2?


Pastor Jackson... do you not read my writing? Honestly, I have always said that women were in perfect order to PROPHESY... but not to teach, preach, correct. lead or instruct men in the ways of God... it puts her out of her place.. her husband is to teach her and the children in the ways of God....

Propesying in every instance of scripture is telling something of DIVINE UTTERANCE>. it is not a prepared sermon of instruction.. When Abagus PROPHESIED he told what was gonna soon happen to Paul...

Women are perfectly in their right to prophesy....... this is not a Five Fold Ministry position in the church.. it is a gift and every believer is entitled to the gifts of the Spirit

Yes I do, jeeze. Perhaps I was not clear, I am talking of the 5 fold. This is for every believer so why exclude the women?
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10/22/08 6:38 pm


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Post Re: Pastor Jackson BlessedinMsTn
PastorJackson wrote:
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
PastorJackson wrote:
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
FOLLOW ME as I FOLLOW CHRIST

We must believe that PAUL was the VOICE of his church age and as such he was FOLLOWING CHRIST... He told us to FOLLOW HIS COMMANDS

To now try and say "Well that was Paul"

Paul said if we preach any other doctrines than he preached.. it doesn't matter wer'e an Angel... we would be cursed.. thats a pretty concrete voice to follow......dont ya think?

So why try to diminish his commands to women as if its just a man speaking?

I love how you guys try to make this sound like just some chauvanist man speaking in a chauvnistic society and perhaps this was not Gods command....

Very next verse he took care of those who would try to say "he didn't mean what he said" he took it waaaaaay past his personal opinions...

VERY NEXT VERSE

For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

You see.. he brought it back to GOD and the BEGINNING... telling us that his teaching transcends custom and time


Excuse me what do you mean you guys? I have never tried to make it sound like that, next I see what you are saying, but this really contradicts Joel. Why would God pour out his Spirit and all of the gifts that are for "everyone" if he did not want them to be used by 1/2?


Pastor Jackson... do you not read my writing? Honestly, I have always said that women were in perfect order to PROPHESY... but not to teach, preach, correct. lead or instruct men in the ways of God... it puts her out of her place.. her husband is to teach her and the children in the ways of God....

Propesying in every instance of scripture is telling something of DIVINE UTTERANCE>. it is not a prepared sermon of instruction.. When Abagus PROPHESIED he told what was gonna soon happen to Paul...

Women are perfectly in their right to prophesy....... this is not a Five Fold Ministry position in the church.. it is a gift and every believer is entitled to the gifts of the Spirit

Yes I do, jeeze. Perhaps I was not clear, I am talking of the 5 fold. This is for every believer so why exclude the women?


No Pastor the Five Fold is not for women.. because this is the headship of the church.. the gifts that are given to CORRECT the church... and women are forbidden to Rebuke or Correct the Sons of God... it would be just as wrong as allowing your children to correct your wife... nothing against the children but it is out of Divine Order
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10/22/08 6:48 pm


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Post Bro Whitt BlessedinMsTn
I would be interested in your responses to my response to you
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10/22/08 8:57 pm


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Post Re: Pastor Jackson PastorJackson
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
PastorJackson wrote:
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
PastorJackson wrote:
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
FOLLOW ME as I FOLLOW CHRIST

We must believe that PAUL was the VOICE of his church age and as such he was FOLLOWING CHRIST... He told us to FOLLOW HIS COMMANDS

To now try and say "Well that was Paul"

Paul said if we preach any other doctrines than he preached.. it doesn't matter wer'e an Angel... we would be cursed.. thats a pretty concrete voice to follow......dont ya think?

So why try to diminish his commands to women as if its just a man speaking?

I love how you guys try to make this sound like just some chauvanist man speaking in a chauvnistic society and perhaps this was not Gods command....

Very next verse he took care of those who would try to say "he didn't mean what he said" he took it waaaaaay past his personal opinions...

VERY NEXT VERSE

For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

You see.. he brought it back to GOD and the BEGINNING... telling us that his teaching transcends custom and time


Excuse me what do you mean you guys? I have never tried to make it sound like that, next I see what you are saying, but this really contradicts Joel. Why would God pour out his Spirit and all of the gifts that are for "everyone" if he did not want them to be used by 1/2?


Pastor Jackson... do you not read my writing? Honestly, I have always said that women were in perfect order to PROPHESY... but not to teach, preach, correct. lead or instruct men in the ways of God... it puts her out of her place.. her husband is to teach her and the children in the ways of God....

Propesying in every instance of scripture is telling something of DIVINE UTTERANCE>. it is not a prepared sermon of instruction.. When Abagus PROPHESIED he told what was gonna soon happen to Paul...

Women are perfectly in their right to prophesy....... this is not a Five Fold Ministry position in the church.. it is a gift and every believer is entitled to the gifts of the Spirit

Yes I do, jeeze. Perhaps I was not clear, I am talking of the 5 fold. This is for every believer so why exclude the women?


No Pastor the Five Fold is not for women.. because this is the headship of the church.. the gifts that are given to CORRECT the church... and women are forbidden to Rebuke or Correct the Sons of God... it would be just as wrong as allowing your children to correct your wife... nothing against the children but it is out of Divine Order


you are completely mistaken. There is absolutely nothing in scripture to back what you just said up. In fact you have shot down your argument about prophesying.
To(G1161) anotherG243 the workingG1755 of miracles;G1411 to(G1161) anotherG243 prophecy;G4394 to(G1161) anotherG243 discerningG1253 of spirits;G4151 to(G1161) anotherG2087 divers kindsG1085 of tongues;G1100 to(G1161) anotherG243 the interpretationG2058 of tongues:G1100


Since in 1 cor 12:7 ButG1161 theG3588 manifestationG5321 of theG3588 SpiritG4151 is givenG1325 to every manG1538 toG4314 profitG4851 withal.
11Co 12:7)

G1538
ἕκαστος
hekastos
hek'-as-tos
As if a superlative of ἕκας hekas (afar); each or every: - any, both, each (one), every (man, one, woman), particularly.

1Co 12:27 NowG1161 yeG5210 areG2075 the bodyG4983 of Christ,G5547 andG2532 membersG3196 inG1537 particular.G3313
1Co 12:28 AndG2532 GodG2316 hath setG5087 someG3739 G3303 inG1722 theG3588 church,G1577 firstG4412 apostles,G652 secondarilyG1208 prophets,G4396 thirdlyG5154 teachers,G1320 after thatG1899 miracles,G1411 thenG1534 giftsG5486 of healings,G2386 helps,G484 governments,G2941 diversitiesG1085 of tongues.G1100


So the bible tells us that this is for everyone, not just men but everyone, and since we are all one body you are telling the foot it is not needed. I have asked repeatedly for scripture to back up what you are saying and I give you scripture. Please back up what you are saying, and not because I said so.



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10/22/08 9:13 pm


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Post Re: Pastor Jackson BlessedinMsTn
PastorJackson wrote:
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
PastorJackson wrote:
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
PastorJackson wrote:
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
FOLLOW ME as I FOLLOW CHRIST

We must believe that PAUL was the VOICE of his church age and as such he was FOLLOWING CHRIST... He told us to FOLLOW HIS COMMANDS

To now try and say "Well that was Paul"

Paul said if we preach any other doctrines than he preached.. it doesn't matter wer'e an Angel... we would be cursed.. thats a pretty concrete voice to follow......dont ya think?

So why try to diminish his commands to women as if its just a man speaking?

I love how you guys try to make this sound like just some chauvanist man speaking in a chauvnistic society and perhaps this was not Gods command....

Very next verse he took care of those who would try to say "he didn't mean what he said" he took it waaaaaay past his personal opinions...

VERY NEXT VERSE

For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

You see.. he brought it back to GOD and the BEGINNING... telling us that his teaching transcends custom and time


Excuse me what do you mean you guys? I have never tried to make it sound like that, next I see what you are saying, but this really contradicts Joel. Why would God pour out his Spirit and all of the gifts that are for "everyone" if he did not want them to be used by 1/2?


Pastor Jackson... do you not read my writing? Honestly, I have always said that women were in perfect order to PROPHESY... but not to teach, preach, correct. lead or instruct men in the ways of God... it puts her out of her place.. her husband is to teach her and the children in the ways of God....

Propesying in every instance of scripture is telling something of DIVINE UTTERANCE>. it is not a prepared sermon of instruction.. When Abagus PROPHESIED he told what was gonna soon happen to Paul...

Women are perfectly in their right to prophesy....... this is not a Five Fold Ministry position in the church.. it is a gift and every believer is entitled to the gifts of the Spirit

Yes I do, jeeze. Perhaps I was not clear, I am talking of the 5 fold. This is for every believer so why exclude the women?


No Pastor the Five Fold is not for women.. because this is the headship of the church.. the gifts that are given to CORRECT the church... and women are forbidden to Rebuke or Correct the Sons of God... it would be just as wrong as allowing your children to correct your wife... nothing against the children but it is out of Divine Order


you are completely mistaken. There is absolutely nothing in scripture to back what you just said up. In fact you have shot down your argument about prophesying.
To(G1161) anotherG243 the workingG1755 of miracles;G1411 to(G1161) anotherG243 prophecy;G4394 to(G1161) anotherG243 discerningG1253 of spirits;G4151 to(G1161) anotherG2087 divers kindsG1085 of tongues;G1100 to(G1161) anotherG243 the interpretationG2058 of tongues:G1100


Since in 1 cor 12:7 ButG1161 theG3588 manifestationG5321 of theG3588 SpiritG4151 is givenG1325 to every manG1538 toG4314 profitG4851 withal.
11Co 12:7)

G1538
ἕκαστος
hekastos
hek'-as-tos
As if a superlative of ἕκας hekas (afar); each or every: - any, both, each (one), every (man, one, woman), particularly.

1Co 12:27 NowG1161 yeG5210 areG2075 the bodyG4983 of Christ,G5547 andG2532 membersG3196 inG1537 particular.G3313
1Co 12:28 AndG2532 GodG2316 hath setG5087 someG3739 G3303 inG1722 theG3588 church,G1577 firstG4412 apostles,G652 secondarilyG1208 prophets,G4396 thirdlyG5154 teachers,G1320 after thatG1899 miracles,G1411 thenG1534 giftsG5486 of healings,G2386 helps,G484 governments,G2941 diversitiesG1085 of tongues.G1100


So the bible tells us that this is for everyone, not just men but everyone, and since we are all one body you are telling the foot it is not needed. I have asked repeatedly for scripture to back up what you are saying and I give you scripture. Please back up what you are saying, and not because I said so.



Wink


Pastor PLEASE.. PLEASE PLEASE.. what is your point?

I have agreed with you about the gift of Prophesy....... what else do you want me to say? Women can prophesy..

Surely you know.. even the CHURCH OF GOD teaches that just because ones prophesies does not place them in the 5 FOLD MINISTRY OFFICE of a PROPHET

This is common knowledge among the Pentecostal... so lets be clear a woman can prophesy... of course.. she can foretell the future but this does not position her in the OFFICE of a Prophet in the NT
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10/22/08 9:20 pm


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No Pastor the Five Fold is not for women.. because this is the headship of the church.. the gifts that are given to CORRECT the church... and women are forbidden to Rebuke or Correct the Sons of God... it would be just as wrong as allowing your children to correct your wife... nothing against the children but it is out of Divine Order




WOW...there should be ALOT of churches that need to close down. Cause in some the women are in these offices.


Once again..this will come full circle and make no sense at all.
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10/22/08 9:44 pm


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Post The churches should not be shut down BlessedinMsTn
HighlyFavoured wrote:
Quote:
No Pastor the Five Fold is not for women.. because this is the headship of the church.. the gifts that are given to CORRECT the church... and women are forbidden to Rebuke or Correct the Sons of God... it would be just as wrong as allowing your children to correct your wife... nothing against the children but it is out of Divine Order




WOW...there should be ALOT of churches that need to close down. Cause in some the women are in these offices.


Once again..this will come full circle and make no sense at all.


No, the church shouldn't be shut down... changes should be made and proper order brought to the house of God.

That dear woman should do like Deborah did in the OT when she knew she was out of place when she was leading the MEN OF ISRAEL.. she stepped down and told BARAK to arise and LEAD...... she was truly a woman with a right Spirit...
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10/22/08 9:50 pm


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Like I stated before...let's make this universal...


You cannot just apply what you are saying to adults...women have taught babies all the way to teen...they have corrected and rebuked..if you are going to do what it says..then do it all the way.
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10/22/08 9:56 pm


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HighlyFavoured wrote:
Like I stated before...let's make this universal...


You cannot just apply what you are saying to adults...women have taught babies all the way to teen...they have corrected and rebuked..if you are going to do what it says..then do it all the way.


A child is not a man... now lets be honest.. God set the children under the authority of their mothers..... she is in perfect order rebuking her children.. God commands it of her.. but for her to correct or rebuke her head is just as perverted as a child correcting or rebuking their parents... not that the mother is any better or more special to God than the child but both have their places in headship and Divine Order...

For a woman who's head is the man... unfortunately that is the scriptures.. for her to correct and rebuke or teach her head.. is just so out of order
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10/22/08 10:01 pm


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OK...once again..when is the cross over??? Come on..let's get real...how old will he be before he is considered a man..and one that a woman in the church can't rebuke or correct.

That's not a silly question...


There is a difference with being under a covering and over a man. It is first a difference in attitude, and then in action. Sometimes women seek to manipulate and control the man, to dominate him and to work her own way. The teachings and prophetic utterances of a woman with these attitudes will often be abrasive, harsh, demanding and intruding...opposite of a quiet and gentle spirit.



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10/22/08 10:28 pm


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When Paul gave the qualifications for the office of the "bishop" (overseer or elder), his introductory statement leaves this office wide open to both sexes. He wrote in first timothy 3:1, "if a man [tis] desire the office of a bishop"...



Tis is an indefinite pronoun, which means "anyone" male or female, someone or certain one, usually meaning both sexes. If the Lord wanted only males for this office, Paul would have used aner, the unmistakable word for "man". TIS is used generically throughout the New Testament,, Mt 11:27, Lk 9:23,Jn 6:51..and so on.

It was specifically used by Jesus to designate those who are born of water and the Spirit, of whom He later said, "He that receiveth whomsoever [TIS] I send receiveth Me".[/i]
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10/22/08 10:45 pm


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HighlyFavoured wrote:
When Paul gave the qualifications for the office of the "bishop" (overseer or elder), his introductory statement leaves this office wide open to both sexes. He wrote in first timothy 3:1, "if a man [tis] desire the office of a bishop"...



Tis is an indefinite pronoun, which means "anyone" male or female, someone or certain one, usually meaning both sexes. If the Lord wanted only males for this office, Paul would have used aner, the unmistakable word for "man". TIS is used generically throughout the New Testament,, Mt 11:27, Lk 9:23,Jn 6:51..and so on.

It was specifically used by Jesus to designate those who are born of water and the Spirit, of whom He later said, "He that receiveth whomsoever [TIS] I send receiveth Me".[/i]


How can you do this in good conscience?

Honestly and respectfully how can you try to make the word MAN here be open for both men and women? How far will people go to try and make a doctrine in the scriptures that are not there.....

Did you fail to go to the next verse? Where this MAN.. same word must be the HUSBAND of ONE WIFE??? So..... was he allowing here for Lesbiaism?

When does the madness stop? When do people acknowledge that not ONE WOMAN is found leading any NT church in the scriptures.. they didnt write one book of the Bible. there was not one who was a disciple,,, not one of the 12 Apostles were women.... and then Paul forbids them to lead the church....

How much more scriptural evidence does one need to finally just submit to it?

But to say that this word MAN means man or woman... is sad... when the next verse makes it MORE THAN PLAIN that he was in reference to the MALE SPECIES.. only MEN can be husbands....
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10/22/08 11:53 pm


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