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were there any female apostles
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Post One thing I know BlessedinMsTn
curly wrote:
I believe that God can and does use women. I do not doubt that. I was just wondering if female apostles was Biblical.


Male Apostles are biblical........ were still waiting for the proof that females are
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Post curly
I heard that H.B. Seymour has some good teaching on the subject of apostles. Acts Enthusiast
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10/15/08 10:57 pm


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Post Re: One thing I know PastorJackson
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
curly wrote:
I believe that God can and does use women. I do not doubt that. I was just wondering if female apostles was Biblical.


Male Apostles are biblical........ were still waiting for the proof that females are


I have asked for a scriptural prohibition on women being Apostles. I don't mean Paul I mean Jesus or God saying it. 1 Tim. 2: 12 but I do not permit a woman to teach a man or exercise authority over him; rather, she is to remain at peace. For one this is what he would do, I do not see anything in the scriptures to say that what others would do. I might not allow anyone but my Asst Pastor to take up tithes but someone else might let their deacons. Also we are not talking about Senior Pastors here the bible is clear on being the husband of one wife unless you are talking of Ellen. Very Happy
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10/16/08 11:03 am


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Post Re: One thing I know BlessedinMsTn
PastorJackson wrote:
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
curly wrote:
I believe that God can and does use women. I do not doubt that. I was just wondering if female apostles was Biblical.


Male Apostles are biblical........ were still waiting for the proof that females are


I have asked for a scriptural prohibition on women being Apostles. I don't mean Paul I mean Jesus or God saying it. 1 Tim. 2: 12 but I do not permit a woman to teach a man or exercise authority over him; rather, she is to remain at peace. For one this is what he would do, I do not see anything in the scriptures to say that what others would do. I might not allow anyone but my Asst Pastor to take up tithes but someone else might let their deacons. Also we are not talking about Senior Pastors here the bible is clear on being the husband of one wife unless you are talking of Ellen. Very Happy


Pastor Jackson.. you have just opened up a very dangerous can of worms.. to tell me that you don't want the words of Paul but rather of God.... I thought it was the Holy Spirit speaking through Paul and thus the reason his writings are part of our scriptures... are you now devaluating his part of the Word?
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Post Re: One thing I know PastorJackson
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
PastorJackson wrote:
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
curly wrote:
I believe that God can and does use women. I do not doubt that. I was just wondering if female apostles was Biblical.


Male Apostles are biblical........ were still waiting for the proof that females are


I have asked for a scriptural prohibition on women being Apostles. I don't mean Paul I mean Jesus or God saying it. 1 Tim. 2: 12 but I do not permit a woman to teach a man or exercise authority over him; rather, she is to remain at peace. For one this is what he would do, I do not see anything in the scriptures to say that what others would do. I might not allow anyone but my Asst Pastor to take up tithes but someone else might let their deacons. Also we are not talking about Senior Pastors here the bible is clear on being the husband of one wife unless you are talking of Ellen. Very Happy


Pastor Jackson.. you have just opened up a very dangerous can of worms.. to tell me that you don't want the words of Paul but rather of God.... I thought it was the Holy Spirit speaking through Paul and thus the reason his writings are part of our scriptures... are you now devaluating his part of the Word?


No that is not what I said I said that the instructions he gave were HIS instructions to the body and he emphasized that Notice the other instructions in the bible did not have the caviat "I" that is not the same as the Holy Spirit. I am not devaluing what was said but I am not going to preclude a whole group just because our understand of a persons opinion might be mistaken, that is why I am asking for instructions such as a leader must be the husband of one wife etc. Something that reinforces his statement. Did that make sense? Thanks.
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10/16/08 11:37 am


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Post Pastor Jackson BlessedinMsTn
You see Paul, being the Messenger of the Church Age... knew that folks like you would come along and question his words on this subject.. he knew people would want to take it HIGHER than him... so be obliged us when he brought us BACK TO THE BEGINNING in the garden of Eden and showed us why a woman could never be in any authority over the man... because GOD SAID SHE COULDN't in Eden... and as long as this earth remaineth we are still under this Divine order that God instituted

You know what is so funny brother.. no one questions Pauls credentials when he says "The head of every man is Christ" we have no problem with recognizing his authority to say such a thing... but when it comes to his instructions for women in the church.. we now want MORE evidence than just his words.... thankfully he gave them to us
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10/16/08 12:16 pm


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Post Re: Pastor Jackson PastorJackson
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
You see Paul, being the Messenger of the Church Age... knew that folks like you would come along and question his words on this subject.. he knew people would want to take it HIGHER than him... so be obliged us when he brought us BACK TO THE BEGINNING in the garden of Eden and showed us why a woman could never be in any authority over the man... because GOD SAID SHE COULDN't in Eden... and as long as this earth remaineth we are still under this Divine order that God instituted

You know what is so funny brother.. no one questions Pauls credentials when he says "The head of every man is Christ" we have no problem with recognizing his authority to say such a thing... but when it comes to his instructions for women in the church.. we now want MORE evidence than just his words.... thankfully he gave them to us


The only thing I questioned is when he said I do something everything else is God saying do you see what I am saying here? I am not questioning his credentials. Thanks, All I am doing is asking questions. Rolling Eyes
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10/16/08 1:33 pm


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Post Re: Pastor Jackson John Jett
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
You see Paul, being the Messenger of the Church Age... knew that folks like you would come along and question his words on this subject.. he knew people would want to take it HIGHER than him... so be obliged us when he brought us BACK TO THE BEGINNING in the garden of Eden and showed us why a woman could never be in any authority over the man... because GOD SAID SHE COULDN't in Eden... and as long as this earth remaineth we are still under this Divine order that God instituted

You know what is so funny brother.. no one questions Pauls credentials when he says "The head of every man is Christ" we have no problem with recognizing his authority to say such a thing... but when it comes to his instructions for women in the church.. we now want MORE evidence than just his words.... thankfully he gave them to us


Ok, I'll bite. Blessed, I believe you open your own "can of worms" when you invoke the curse of Gen 3 as defence of subjugation of women. We are redeemed from the curse. Paul himself said that there is no difference between men and women who are all in Christ. Why this trip about having to be powerful and in control of women? Are you compensating for something brother? Wink
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10/16/08 1:59 pm


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Post Re: Pastor Jackson PastorJackson
John Jett wrote:
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
You see Paul, being the Messenger of the Church Age... knew that folks like you would come along and question his words on this subject.. he knew people would want to take it HIGHER than him... so be obliged us when he brought us BACK TO THE BEGINNING in the garden of Eden and showed us why a woman could never be in any authority over the man... because GOD SAID SHE COULDN't in Eden... and as long as this earth remaineth we are still under this Divine order that God instituted

You know what is so funny brother.. no one questions Pauls credentials when he says "The head of every man is Christ" we have no problem with recognizing his authority to say such a thing... but when it comes to his instructions for women in the church.. we now want MORE evidence than just his words.... thankfully he gave them to us


Ok, I'll bite. Blessed, I believe you open your own "can of worms" when you invoke the curse of Gen 3 as defence of subjugation of women. We are redeemed from the curse. Paul himself said that there is no difference between men and women who are all in Christ. Why this trip about having to be powerful and in control of women? Are you compensating for something brother? Wink



Quote:
Are you compensating for something brother? Wink


ROFL
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10/16/08 2:03 pm


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Post Bro Bob
Quote:
We are redeemed from the curse.


Are you saying that we are no longer subject to it?
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10/16/08 4:30 pm


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Post John Jett
Bro Bob Hodo wrote:
Quote:
We are redeemed from the curse.


Are you saying that we are no longer subject to it?


Spiritually speaking yes (you're trying to set me up for the "death" part of the curse, I know), how could you be subject to something you're redeemed from? Especially if that thing were a curse? But eternally speaking ALL parts of the curse are removed, including death. But Jesus didn't work in the curse either when He elevated the status of women all around Him. This is one of the reasons he was hated by the legal scholars, they didn't like it when he would rebuke them and defend women! This was radical behavior in ancient near-eastern culture!
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10/16/08 4:46 pm


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Post SpeaktoNations
weren't the Epistles the wives of the Apostles?
Our denominations closed minded stance on women in ministry is archaic and fundamentally wrong to the scriptures and to our constitution. I pray to see the day our women will rise up and be recognized as the leaders in Christ they are.
The same men who won't approve women to be pastors of a church will vote for one as VP. So hypocritical. But hey, who cares? No real change is coming when we get more of the same from the golf cart mafia mentality of our pastors.
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10/16/08 5:10 pm


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Post Re: One thing I know curly
PastorJackson wrote:
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
PastorJackson wrote:
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
curly wrote:
I believe that God can and does use women. I do not doubt that. I was just wondering if female apostles was Biblical.


Male Apostles are biblical........ were still waiting for the proof that females are


I have asked for a scriptural prohibition on women being Apostles. I don't mean Paul I mean Jesus or God saying it. 1 Tim. 2: 12 but I do not permit a woman to teach a man or exercise authority over him; rather, she is to remain at peace. For one this is what he would do, I do not see anything in the scriptures to say that what others would do. I might not allow anyone but my Asst Pastor to take up tithes but someone else might let their deacons. Also we are not talking about Senior Pastors here the bible is clear on being the husband of one wife unless you are talking of Ellen. Very Happy


Pastor Jackson.. you have just opened up a very dangerous can of worms.. to tell me that you don't want the words of Paul but rather of God.... I thought it was the Holy Spirit speaking through Paul and thus the reason his writings are part of our scriptures... are you now devaluating his part of the Word?


No that is not what I said I said that the instructions he gave were HIS instructions to the body and he emphasized that Notice the other instructions in the bible did not have the caviat "I" that is not the same as the Holy Spirit. I am not devaluing what was said but I am not going to preclude a whole group just because our understand of a persons opinion might be mistaken, that is why I am asking for instructions such as a leader must be the husband of one wife etc. Something that reinforces his statement. Did that make sense? Thanks.



I thought that all Scriptures was given by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. You are not saying that what Paul said was not given by the Spirit. Are you?
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10/16/08 9:37 pm


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Post Bro Bob
You are setting yourself up, I am just pointing out the obvious.

Quote:
Genesis 3: 14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.


I'm just looking for the part that is no longer applicable. I know there are some who don't believe these words anymore, but I see no expiration date.

BB
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10/16/08 9:54 pm


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Post Re: Pastor Jackson BlessedinMsTn
John Jett wrote:
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
You see Paul, being the Messenger of the Church Age... knew that folks like you would come along and question his words on this subject.. he knew people would want to take it HIGHER than him... so be obliged us when he brought us BACK TO THE BEGINNING in the garden of Eden and showed us why a woman could never be in any authority over the man... because GOD SAID SHE COULDN't in Eden... and as long as this earth remaineth we are still under this Divine order that God instituted

You know what is so funny brother.. no one questions Pauls credentials when he says "The head of every man is Christ" we have no problem with recognizing his authority to say such a thing... but when it comes to his instructions for women in the church.. we now want MORE evidence than just his words.... thankfully he gave them to us


Ok, I'll bite. Blessed, I believe you open your own "can of worms" when you invoke the curse of Gen 3 as defence of subjugation of women. We are redeemed from the curse. Paul himself said that there is no difference between men and women who are all in Christ. Why this trip about having to be powerful and in control of women? Are you compensating for something brother? Wink


Do snakes still crawl?

Do women still hurt in childbirth?

Now tell me how redeemed from the curse we are! Only in Spirit.. in the natural order of earth everything remains the same
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10/16/08 10:04 pm


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Post BlessedinMsTn
John Jett wrote:
Bro Bob Hodo wrote:
Quote:
We are redeemed from the curse.


Are you saying that we are no longer subject to it?


Spiritually speaking yes (you're trying to set me up for the "death" part of the curse, I know), how could you be subject to something you're redeemed from? Especially if that thing were a curse? But eternally speaking ALL parts of the curse are removed, including death. But Jesus didn't work in the curse either when He elevated the status of women all around Him. This is one of the reasons he was hated by the legal scholars, they didn't like it when he would rebuke them and defend women! This was radical behavior in ancient near-eastern culture!


Could you name the women that Jesus elevated into any leadership position? Can't wait for the answer
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10/16/08 10:05 pm


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Post Political Government and Spiritual Headship are different BlessedinMsTn
SpeaktoNations wrote:
weren't the Epistles the wives of the Apostles?
Our denominations closed minded stance on women in ministry is archaic and fundamentally wrong to the scriptures and to our constitution. I pray to see the day our women will rise up and be recognized as the leaders in Christ they are.
The same men who won't approve women to be pastors of a church will vote for one as VP. So hypocritical. But hey, who cares? No real change is coming when we get more of the same from the golf cart mafia mentality of our pastors.


Deborah was allowed by God to be in political leadership as a Judge.... so we have scriptural precedence for God allowing a woman to lead a nation.... Queen Eshter.... but NEVER ONE TIME is she allowed to teach, rebuke, exhort or reprove men.. because it's simply out of Gods divine order
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10/16/08 10:07 pm


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Post Bro. Hodo BlessedinMsTn
Bro Bob Hodo wrote:
You are setting yourself up, I am just pointing out the obvious.

Quote:
Genesis 3: 14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.


I'm just looking for the part that is no longer applicable. I know there are some who don't believe these words anymore, but I see no expiration date.

BB


Perfect stated..... since there is no longer male nor female in Christ.. then I personally believe we should quit preaching against men marrying men.. since we are so elevated spiritually that our natural genders are no longer applicable in this life....
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10/16/08 10:08 pm


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Post Re: One thing I know PastorJackson
curly wrote:
PastorJackson wrote:
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
PastorJackson wrote:
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
curly wrote:
I believe that God can and does use women. I do not doubt that. I was just wondering if female apostles was Biblical.


Male Apostles are biblical........ were still waiting for the proof that females are


I have asked for a scriptural prohibition on women being Apostles. I don't mean Paul I mean Jesus or God saying it. 1 Tim. 2: 12 but I do not permit a woman to teach a man or exercise authority over him; rather, she is to remain at peace. For one this is what he would do, I do not see anything in the scriptures to say that what others would do. I might not allow anyone but my Asst Pastor to take up tithes but someone else might let their deacons. Also we are not talking about Senior Pastors here the bible is clear on being the husband of one wife unless you are talking of Ellen. Very Happy


Pastor Jackson.. you have just opened up a very dangerous can of worms.. to tell me that you don't want the words of Paul but rather of God.... I thought it was the Holy Spirit speaking through Paul and thus the reason his writings are part of our scriptures... are you now devaluating his part of the Word?


No that is not what I said I said that the instructions he gave were HIS instructions to the body and he emphasized that Notice the other instructions in the bible did not have the caviat "I" that is not the same as the Holy Spirit. I am not devaluing what was said but I am not going to preclude a whole group just because our understand of a persons opinion might be mistaken, that is why I am asking for instructions such as a leader must be the husband of one wife etc. Something that reinforces his statement. Did that make sense? Thanks.



I thought that all Scriptures was given by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. You are not saying that what Paul said was not given by the Spirit. Are you?


No, not at all, but remember all messages from the Spirit are filtered thru us mere mortals and I know I am not perfect and sometimes I allow my viewpoints to get in on a word from God. I am saying that it is interesting we place so much on his opinion on this. This place in the bible is completly different in that this is not a teaching or a direct message from God this is Paul saying basicly in my church this is how I do it. But even in this context he is speaking to a congragaton and not the body at large. And I still can not get an answer, to my question. I assume that means it can't be answered. Most people on this board require "Proof" everytime something is said, all I am asking for is proof to back it up. The church has excluded women based on 1 sententce that looks in my opinion to be Paul's personal viewpoint. I personaly do not thing women are apostles but I would like to know scriptuarly. I am just trying to stir some debate and thought. Thanks.
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10/16/08 10:14 pm


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Post Re: Bro. Hodo John Jett
BlessedinMsTn wrote:
Bro Bob Hodo wrote:
You are setting yourself up, I am just pointing out the obvious.

Quote:
Genesis 3: 14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.


I'm just looking for the part that is no longer applicable. I know there are some who don't believe these words anymore, but I see no expiration date.

BB


Perfect stated..... since there is no longer male nor female in Christ.. then I personally believe we should quit preaching against men marrying men.. since we are so elevated spiritually that our natural genders are no longer applicable in this life....


That's up to you. But you make a joke of the scripture. Is it because it doesn't suite your need for superiority over women. Or does the authority of that scripture come second to your authority?
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10/16/08 11:09 pm


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