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We speak what will be...
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Post What have you spoken into being? wahoo
Yo, just wondering, how often do you speak to the sick and they are healed or to the dead and they are raised? When have you spoken to the bank account and it was increased or to the hungry and they have been fed.

It seems to be that scripture is full of stories of those who loved God but did not have every obstacle in their life set aside as a result of that love.

Hebrews tells us that many died not yet having seen their promise fulfilled, how do you respond to such Biblical statements?
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4/11/06 12:20 pm


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Post Wahoo... Yo Dude
Well, we know that we CAN ask amiss.

And we know that God is not going to set aside His ultimate divine plan just because we ask Him to.

And we know, for instance, that all the commanding in the world won't reveal the day and hour of Jesus' return.

And we know that in this world we will have tribulation.

I do recall, however, speaking of finances, that Smith Wigglesworth told the Lord that if the heels of his shoes ever got run down (i.e., could not afford proper shoes, etc.), he would go back to plumbing. He never went back to plumbing.

Yes, some folks are in financial straits. Sometimes because of poor decisions and actions. And sometimes because they have not fully grasped that everything the Father has is ours, and that, according to our level of maturity, He entrusts us with all that He has.

At the same time, we ask ourselves why Jesus would teach the disciples to pray "give us this day our daily bread," or to "lead us not into temptation."

I believe the answer is, very clearly, prayer can cause to happen what would not have happened otherwise. Likewise, what we speak in faith can cause to be what would not have been otherwise.

The woman who touched the hem of Jesus' garment...can we doubt that if she had resisted that urge that she would NOT have been healed at all? That is, there are things required of US--things that God would be perfectly willing to do for us--IF WE WOULD BE SPEAK THEM, ASK FOR THEM, PRAY FOR THEM, ETC.

In my home is a refrigerator stocked with foods of all sorts. Now, my wife fixes me dinner every night. That is taken care of. But what if I wanted an extra scoop of ice cream between meals? Well, being an adult, I can simply open the refrigerator myself and obtain it. That is, it would not have happened otherwise! The ice cream would not have just magically appeared--I had to make it happen.

Likewise, there are things that God does with no urging from us. We need not command the sun to rise in the east every morning. We need not command gravity to remain steady.

But if we want something else, so to speak, we WILL have to act. Sometimes we pray, sometimes we ask, and sometimes we can simply speak it and it happens.

Yes, I have spoken some things. They are simple things. I'm nothing special. But I connected to the Spirit and realized that I was dealing with a principle of great power.

A young boy was kidnapped by a convicted child molester in Florida a year or two ago. It happened on Monday, I believe. I did not read about it until toward the end of that week. A great and divine intensity came upon me. Still not knowing that this had happened DAYS BEFORE, I slipped from my office and went into the restroom where I could have a bit more privacy. I SPOKE--through tears of passion and anointing--that the boy would be found THAT SAME DAY and that all would be well.

That evening, a few minutes after arriving home, guess what was on the news? FOUND! UNHARMED!

Now, I know others were praying. But I also KNOW what happened in that bathroom. I spoke and I felt all of heaven weigh in behind me! From the moment on, THE OUTCOME COULD NOT HAVE BEEN OTHERWISE! Why? Because the King of Kings backed me up!

Now, I can only report how it is for me.... And I have found that my compassion is most stirred when children are in peril (or in one case, when my mother faced some worrisome tests).

I know that some people seem to have a gift for praying for, say, the blind, or the crippled, or the deaf. I don't know how it all works, except to say that perhaps those things touch their compassion more deeply, stirring that spiritual intensity in them, allowing them to speak in faith.

In any case, IF WE ALL would act on whatever it was that stirred us to this level of intensity, I dare say we would find that everything was covered. That every sickness could be dealt with, every situation, and so on.

I can only say it as the Word says it: I can but speak what I have seen.

And from my study of scripture, I have found nothing that indicates otherwise, all the negative comments notwithstanding.
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4/11/06 12:45 pm


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Post Yo, what about this? wahoo
Did not the Apostle Paul have a thorn in his flesh that was not removed? Did he not have enough faith to ask for its removal or could it be it was part of his destiny to carry the affliction?

What about death? We are all destined to die and then be judged? My speaking healing to my body will not cause it be so if my time has come to die, correct?

What about those that cannot handle an abundance of finances in their life and God is aware of that fact--do they still speak abundance and gain that abundance even if it will cause them to lose focus on the Father?

It seems that when Jesus taught us to pray "give me this day my daily bread" that He was saying, I know what you need, trust me and I will provide it, you don't even have to spell it out for me.

I want all the Father has for me but do not want to assume I can speak into existence that which was not determined to be mine already. And if it was determined to be mine already, why should I have to speak it if I am living in right relationship with Him?
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4/11/06 2:39 pm


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Post Wahoo..."All things are yours" Yo Dude
You raise very valid points. I do believe, however, that my position addresses them.

As I said, we cannot ask in faith and be outside of God's will. Faith will not cooperate with what is amiss. God simply will not allow it. And if what Paul was going through was God's will--and it was, due to Paul's apparent predilection to be exalted--Paul's requests were turned down.

(Now, COULD Paul have prayed it away? Hmmm...I guess I would ask whether Jesus COULD have made the cup pass from Him? I DO believe that there are TIMES when God gives us a choice: "My perfect will or something else?"

As I said in a previous post, we do not change the ULTIMATE will of God.

As for sickness, the Bible tells us that it is appointed unto man once to die. Can enough faith circumvent it? Yes. I have no doubt that ENOUGH faith would cause a man to be like Enoch. Further, there are people on the earth (or will be) who will never die. Why? Because they will be alive when the Lord returns, and will go from this mortal to immortality...without stopping off in the grave.

And Jesus implied that He COULD have willed that John tarry (live) until Jesus returned. We cannot limit the Lord just because of medical science.

But, I am convinced that most would not have the faith for this...or would simply wish to go on to be with the Lord (as Paul struggled with).

I do not believe anyone has to die sick. Some argue that old-age is a sickness. But that would imply that we are growing sicker every day. I believe that old-age is part and parcel of death--the last enemy to be destroyed--but is not sickness, per se. That is, there need not be pain, cancer, headaches, etc. Just the things that are suitable to the idealized state of man at that age.

Now, does that mean that I have the faith for that? No. Only until 80...after that, it's all gravy. (I felt the Lord showed me that I would live a long life--I don't deserve one, but I'm thankful for the promise.)

As for finances, well, just as Paul apparently could not handle the abundance of the revelations, there are people that cannot handle finances. We read in the scripture of the heir being under servants and tutors until he comes of age. Some people have not matured in God, and are not able to handle significant finances. Or they may not be givers, or they may be spendthrifts, etc.

Just as I would not entrust my son with a razor blade, neither will God entrust His little ones with things that would endanger them.

And that explains Paul, too.

Now, as for the Lord's prayer, do you think there is any significance to Jesus telling us to say, "Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done"? Might it be that we are being shown that these things just do not happen passively? That we are to (for lack of a better term) RELEASE these things into existence through our prayers and words.

Of course, God COULD just unleash His will tonight. But for whatever reason, He has chosen to work WITH and THROUGH His children. WE do our part by speaking His will into the physical world--"in earth as it is in heaven."

Does God want to bring healing? Then WE lay our hands on them and pray!

Does God want people to hear the Good News? Then WE witness and preach!

Does God want to develop people? Then WE disciple and mentor them!

Is God willing to move that mountain? Yes. But it most cases it will be because we call on it to be done, and not "just because" He was so inclined.

There are many things I do for my own son. But some I do ONLY if He asks me to. If my son says, "PLAY!" don't you know that I will? It is my good pleasure to bring him joy and happiness! HOW MUCH MORE OUR HEAVENLY FATHER?
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4/11/06 3:58 pm


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Post Have a good day Yo wahoo
We are going to disagree about this and that's okay. I've got children as well and they know they do not have to speak it in order to get the things they need, their needs will be met because I love them and want them to be blessed.

Their simply speaking something in addition to that rarely moves me to simply respond as a result of their faith that I will. There are times I will choose to do just do really cool stuff for them as an expression of my love and there are times they make requests that I honor--but not because they speak it.

Seems to me it is the same with our Heavenly Father.
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4/12/06 7:39 am


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Post Wahoo...I understand perfectly. Yo Dude
Your take is not "wrong" or "bad." I would just say that it is limited.

Yes, God does things for us out of love. And He does things for us when we ask in faith. But as we mature, there are times when we--in a very real sense speaking FOR God--command things to happen.

Think of Peter and John with the crippled man. Did you hear anything like, "Lord, if it be Your will to heal this man...." Or did you hear anything like, "Lord, will you please heal this man?"

No.

It was just "rise up and walk." They SPOKE it. And because of faith in the name of Jesus, it was done. And it would not have happened otherwise, very likely.

But as I said, your take is perfectly legitimate and noble. And so I just say be it unto us according to our faith, my good brother.

Love.
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4/12/06 9:06 am


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Post Let's go back to what you said, Yo .. it's classic WOF .. Rafael D Martinez
>>I am saying that, if we have the faith, we can SPEAK safety to ourselves and our families, we can COMMAND provision in time of need, we can CALL FORTH healing in time of sickness.

How? We are the CHILDREN of the most high God. We are not distant servants, or those who are afar off. We are His CHILDREN. And if you're earthly father would provide for you in time of need, even with limited resources, HOW MUCH MORE will your Heavenly Father do that for HIS CHILDREN?

And so, yes, we realize that there is danger all about us. We can hope and wish that all will be well...or we can SPEAK IN FAITH what WILL BE...and it WILL BE! <<


The Word of Faith thesis statement is that your CONFESSION .. your WORDS (those things you SPEAK) are what create your own reality. By your posts, you say this is something that is part of the provision of God for all believers, that this is normative Chrisitianity.

If so, as has been challenged here, why don't you go into some hospitals, or funeral parlors, and speak some of that life you say we can have just by SPEAKING IN FAITH so it WILL BE. Isn't that what Jesus did? Didn't he have a rather interesting habit of turning funerals into parties? That's what WOF'ers and preachers like to say, to make their points.

Isn't this therefore the will of the Father? Show us how it's done, Yo.

My mother spoke in faith for years, following the same twisted logic you cite here .. and denied her symptoms of diabetes that she suffered for years, but refused to confess. No one, including you, can tell me she didn't have faith. She stood on the Word, claimed her rights as a King's Kid just like Marilyn Hickey so enthusiastically intoned. And now this is costing her terribly. She can't even read the Bible she once clung to daily for her devotions and personal enrichment because her eyesight is severely impacted. She can no longer drive and is stuck in her home a lot. It is a piteous and terrible thing.

Still, Yo, if my mother's faith was some how deficient, why don't you step into the gap here and speak some new eyes to my mom? Again, I'd be certainly appreciative and my mom would too.

Do you see where your assertions will lead you? This is only the logical conclusion to what you are saying. If this is true, then go call those aren't as though they are and start helping relieve this world's sorrows. Otherwise, if not, then repent of this fallacious reasoning. It simply isn't Scriptural. Your theology tickles the ears .. but it will only tantalize the afflicted with high sounding promises that will dead end their faith.

agape

rafael
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4/12/06 10:19 pm


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Post Yo.... keep the faith Tracy S Hamilton
Yo,

Hey, just wanted to let you know that you have validity in your statement. Our words are powerful. That is why there are literally 100's and 100's of verses about our words and illustrations of others in scripture where God was insistent about their words. Why? Because words are creative.

I may not agree with them to the extent that you do, but I will give you the point that words are powerful and creative.

I think that many who disagree do so because it allows them no responsibility for some of their circumstances that they are in. It is kind of ..... "well, that is just the way the ball bounces" mentality.

If we reject the idea that words are creative and powerful, we will have to delete passages of scripture. James 3 needs to be removed. Joshua 1 needs to be removed along with many others.

My style of ministry is probably the total opposite of Hagin, Copeland, and many others. Our church style is more Andy Stanley, Ed Young Jr. etc. to which there are many on here who disagree with those as well.

But at the same time, I do see how our words do effect our own lives and ministry.


Tracy
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4/12/06 10:52 pm


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Post Re: We speak what will be... singer4him
Along those same lines would be this scripture:

Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruit. Proverbs 18:21


I'm not going to say that I agree or disagree with everything that Yo has said in this post. I haven't read everything but when I read the previous post, I was reminded of this scripture. We need take thought and be cautious as to what we say...or so says Solomon.
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4/12/06 11:53 pm


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Post Re: We speak what will be... Porpoise Driven Neptune
Amen. I boldly speak the Trinity! Acts-celerater
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4/13/06 2:01 am


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Post Rafael...an unworthy tactic... Yo Dude
First, I have NEVER claimed to have the kind of faith needed to, say, walk into a hospital and empty it.

I DO CLAIM, however, that that faith IS accessible and possible to us. And if Jesus said that greater works than these shall you do, then SHAME ON YOU for mocking my position.

I have had some degree of success with my faith, but I am so far below what COULD be....

All I know is that the scriptures and the Spirit compel me to exhort that it is available, it is there.

Now, I know next to nothing about WOF'ers, but I will not be intimidated by you calling my position WOF, as though that in itself disqualifies it. If they have misunderstood faith, or if they have abused this revelation, then that is on them. I am not going to stop begin Pentecostal because of the Peter Popoffs of this world!

As for your dear mother.... All I can tell you is that, according to the understanding I have, all the confession, and prayer, and pleading, and crying, and affirmations count for naught alongside true faith.

In fact, I think that is where the WOF'ers went wrong. They KNEW that faith would do these great things. But, alas, they preached faith as being something along the lines of "just confessing it," or "claiming it." And that is not faith, Rafael.

A revelation:

From my experience, I have learned (and it was confirmed to me in the autobiography of Oral Roberts) that faith is A KNOWING. Say you lose your car keys. You search high and low, far and wide. Nothing. Then it hits you--I left them in the pocket of my raincoat!

Now, at that moment, you KNOW where you left them...but there is no observable evidence available to you at that very moment. It is truly the "evidence of things not seen." Then, you find your raincoat, and your faith becomes sight, for there are your keys.

In I John, the Bible says that:

1 John 5:14-15
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

I did not "get" this for many years. I thought it was saying, "God hears us, and since He does, we can be assured that we will get our petition."

But then I realized, at least for me, that the emphasis is own, "if we KNOW that He hear us." For that means that FAITH was present. There is that absolute knowledge and assurance that God will do what we have asked. There is a spiritual intensity that surrounds it that is beyond just confessing and affirmation.

Now, this passage refers to ASKING God. And that is largely what we should do. But there are times when we just know that we are to SPEAK things into being (and by that, I am not necessarily referring to a car magically materializing in your driveway--but I am saying that if you need a car, you COULD speak that you WILL have a new car, and if you have spoken in faith, it will come to pass).

I don't have to pray about whether God will heal a suffering child. I intuitively understand that it's His will.

I don't have to pray about whether God wants to fill someone with the Holy Ghost--I don't have to inquire whether God wants my family to have sufficient food--I just intuitively understand (actually, it may be that I simply spiritual discern) that it is is will.

And on those things, we speak.

Now, Rafael, your mother sounds like a saint. And I can only applaud her for standing steadfast on what knowledge she did have. God CAN heal without faith (Lazurus didn't have any at all). But for whatever reason, He holds some things in His hand that respond only to faith.

Crying isn't the answer. Pleading isn't the answer. Affirmations aren't the answer. Confession isn't the answer. FAITH IS THE ANSWER!

Do I have that faith yet? I do not. But I never will unless I began to journey down this road that leads in that direction--that leads to an understanding that we are the ambassodors of Christ, and as such, we are EMPOWERED to do His works on this earth in all the might and power that He did.

Love.
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4/13/06 9:27 am


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Post Porpoise...You have asked amiss! Yo Dude
Even God cannot make a square circle.

Or create something that has existed forever.

Or create a number that is equal to zero and greater than zero at the same time.

But I appreciate the thought--ha!

Love ya!
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4/13/06 9:30 am


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Post I am blessed curly
I listen to Brother Copeland sometimes along with many others. God is good to me and has prospered me beyond my dreams and expectations for which I am very thankful. Acts Enthusiast
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4/13/06 1:44 pm


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Post Typical Word of Faith dodge .. NOT ENOUGH FAITH Rafael D Martinez
That's pathetic Dude. Who has the "unworthy tactics" here? I knew you'd come up with that little dodge of yours about myself and my mother .. and others here. And that's fine, because that's the only place you can go with this stuff you're shoveling about "faith." Whenever the "faith" doesn't work, it's because we don't have ENOUGH of it. You are twisted, man. There's nothing more loathesome than to hear what you're saying here. Your heresies truly are running away with you.

And how kind of you as to so patronize my mother's crying and tears as bereft of faith, as lacking some special level you - of course - point us toward. I'm so glad you're so anointed by the Spirit that you can judge her and me and everyone else here as those who are of NOT ENOUGH FAITH.

Actually, I have to be truthful - it's summed up in one word. Pathetic. If you get to heaven, I hope you have something kinder to say to my mother when you get there. I guarantee you will, and boy will you have a red face then when you see what my mother has done with that miserable little mustard seed stuff you seem to think she's been stumbling along with. Son.

I would trust her prayers of faith any day.

agape

rafael
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4/14/06 11:56 pm


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Post Re: Rafael...an unworthy tactic... Rafael D Martinez
Yo Dude wrote:


I don't have to pray about whether God will heal a suffering child. I intuitively understand that it's His will.


Do I have that faith yet? I do not. But I never will unless I began to journey down this road that leads in that direction--that leads to an understanding that we are the ambassodors of Christ, and as such, we are EMPOWERED to do His works on this earth in all the might and power that He did.

Love.


So when can we see you clearing out the children's oncology wards at St. Jude's? That's not a question of mockery, it's a very direct application to this which you speak of, so put your tomatoes down.

Why don't Kenny Copeland, Oral Roberts and Benny Hinn put their "anointed" noggins together and start working the hospitals, psych wards, hospices and death beds of the land? Why doesn't Joyce Meyers or Marilyn Hickey go about doing good, destroying the works of the Debbil? Do you know why? BECAUSE THIS "FAITH" IS A FABLE .. and God is in charge here, not us.

Oh, and you don't HAVE that "faith" yet?

So how do you know it works the way you say it does? HOW?

agape

rafael
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Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Galatians 4:16

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4/15/06 12:06 am


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Post Re: We speak what will be... curly
Do you do all these things? Acts Enthusiast
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4/15/06 10:06 am


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Post Rafael...my response Yo Dude
You said:

That's pathetic Dude. Who has the "unworthy tactics" here? I knew you'd come up with that little dodge of yours about myself and my mother .. and others here. And that's fine, because that's the only place you can go with this stuff you're shoveling about "faith." Whenever the "faith" doesn't work, it's because we don't have ENOUGH of it. You are twisted, man. There's nothing more loathesome than to hear what you're saying here. Your heresies truly are running away with you.

No, let me tell you what is really pathetic--to say that the great God of love and mercy and comfort WILLS your mother to die a slow, cruel death...all for some unfathomable purpose that we claim must surely be there, even though we for some purpose it is not revealed to us.

When the disciples could not cast out the demon, did Jesus say, "Well, my Father must will it so?" NO! He put the blame where it ought to go--on the diciples for not having the faith--nor the prayer and fasting needed--to do the job.

My saying I don't yet have the level of faith is not a "dodge." It's just the truth. Let me ask you something, since you seem to know all things: Can Christians pray for the sick and they recover? Do we have the power and authority through Jesus? Did the early church do these things? Has something changed?

We can? THEN WHY AREN'T YOU OUT THERE DOING IT AND EMPTYING THE HOSPITALS???

Because, quite simply, you realize that while we have the power and authority in principle, and may even be able to walk in it to a certain degree, most have not yet attained to that degree of faith, etc. That is, IT IS AVAILABLE, but not ATTAINED, for the most part. We see glimmers of it, but not the whole thing.

And you take me to task for the SAME THING!


You said:

And how kind of you as to so patronize my mother's crying and tears as bereft of faith, as lacking some special level you - of course - point us toward. I'm so glad you're so anointed by the Spirit that you can judge her and me and everyone else here as those who are of NOT ENOUGH FAITH.

My brother, it is as though you placed chip on your shoulder and dared me knock it off. "My mother is sick and she believed--how dare you say that she was not truly believing."

Rafael, what am I supposed to do with that? Just say, "OK, I guess you're right, and I will just ignore the scripture and the Spirit, and back down"?

Rafael, your mother has simply done what I and millions of other Christians through the centuries have done in such situations--prayed the best she knew!

I did it that way for many years--and still do when I don't get to the faith level. God is a good God--sometimes He just understands that "we believe--help Thou our unbelief," and just does it because we ask, because we need it, because we plead.

But sometime he does not. And that is when ONLY FAITH will do the job. I don't always get to that level--most of the time not. But I have found that when I do--WHEN I DO!--it will be as I have spoken. Because God backs it up!


You said:

Actually, I have to be truthful - it's summed up in one word. Pathetic. If you get to heaven, I hope you have something kinder to say to my mother when you get there. I guarantee you will, and boy will you have a red face then when you see what my mother has done with that miserable little mustard seed stuff you seem to think she's been stumbling along with. Son.

No arguments from scripture. Just you taking umbrage at a perceived insult to your mother. First, I would NEVER insult your dear mother. But I am not going to decide that the scriptures and the Spirit are incorrect because of your negative experience. God is a healer whether EVERY SINGLE PERSON we pray for fails to get healed!

I am not going to hold God to blame for lack of healing--I'm going to hold US responsible. He said that the prayer of faith WILL save the sick! Did He say it? DID HE SAY IT? DID...HE...SAY...IT?

And if He did, then I choose to believe that the prayer of faith WILL do just that, and if that doesn't happen, I am not going to say that God went back on His word. I'm going to say that we just didn't pray the prayer of faith.

So call me pathetic. It doesn't change anything. It only ensures that you stay bound and limited by your so-called "orthodoxy" that prevents you from seeing what the scriptures and the Spirit are showing. You could see more...but apparently you have already decided--scriptures or not--that certain things are the case...and so you hold to them. I have no doubt you'll make heaven, but Rafael, you're leaving a lot on the table behind you.

Love.
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4/15/06 12:25 pm


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Post Which Scriptures do you want "arguments" from? Rafael D Martinez
Those that spin out of your own private interpretation? No thanks. You can keep those "words" all to yourself, thank you. I won't face God in judgment for adding to His Word.

Neat way to avoid responsibility for your heresies: we now have to quote verse and chapter to you each time we disagree with your mystical rumination. Sorry, I'm not buying it. And even if I did, I've already seen how easily you can wiggle out of accountability .. just simply claim "well, that's not in the Bible," and "your orthodoxy is blinding you."

Fine. May I as blind to you as possible when it comes to the Word.

So again, I say, before you speak of argument from Scripture, you need to make clear which version you speak of .. the written kind or the ones you add to the Bible to complete your own private "orthodoxy."

So which is it, Yo?
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4/16/06 7:30 am


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Post And you STILL haven't sent us your healing itinerary Rafael D Martinez
When will you be heading to the hospitals close by the TV stations?

Yo, there's probably quite a few hospices with dying AIDS patients close by? When shall we hear of your "attainable" level of faith in action?

You started this post, and this is only the logical end of where your high sounding words will lead you. I'm only asking the same question an unbeliever would. The same question a hard boiled fiftyish guy who watches Benny Hinn's testimonials over a beer a few years after losing his tongue talking wife who "stood on the Word" to cancer will ask you.

That is where life is YO. You can float along in that never-never land of experimental faith .. sooner or later, reality's going to touch you in such a way as to remind you that God is sovereign, faith can only go so far and His will ISN'T always to do as we "speak." The moment is coming, brother. I fear you will be so utterly beyond ability to handle it when it comes.

I've consigned my mom years ago to the hands of God. I have walked in peace since then. Don't continue your insulting treatment of how my faith and hers is somehow inferior to your "revelation knowledge". I have no power whatsoever to heal her. God's potential to do so is found in the vastness of the power of Jesus. But we asked, He sent us to doctors. What's the problem? How many doctors do YOU go to?

Deeds, friend .. not words. Put your money where your mouth certainly has trod. Start showing us those "deeper works." Let me know when you clear out the first nursing or funeral home. I will be there and take digital pictures and I will POST them on this board. Give me a week or so to get time off work to travel to the site and document it.



agape

rafael
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Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Galatians 4:16

These are trying times. Everyone's trying something and getting caught. The Church Lady, 1987
Acts-dicted
Posts: 7719
4/16/06 7:39 am


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Post The following scriptures would make Jesus unpopular on ACTS caseyleejones
and in most churches.

Mat 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

Mat 8:26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Mat 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

Mat 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.

Why do we brush these aside. Are we so numb to the Word of God that circumstances whatever they may be is accepted as Gods will? I am shocked to see people are using circumstances to drive their theology.

I appreciate Yo what you have said. However, it seems that the scriptures that you listed will not override peoples tradition.

Rafael, I would suggest that if you want to debate the issue, use scripture that would outline your position. The only thing you have done thus far is insult, use circumstances as a basis for Gods will, and damn Yo to hell.
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4/16/06 8:08 am


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