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"heal this person if it be thy will"
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Post "heal this person if it be thy will" caseyleejones
This is an area I get annoyed at. How can one pray in faith if Gods will is not known? Does not the bible say that the prayer of faith shall save the sick? We can all agree that faith can only begin where the will of God is known. So why this hail-mary prayer.

Why not continue in this prayer by saying...."God heal this person if it be thy will. If not, let this sickness remain to serve a greater purpose AND if you want this person to die of sickness we want that as well God." The latter is a restatement of the former.

I am just annoyed at people praying over me and always saying if it be thy will. Yes, Jesus prayed this, but wasnt this a prayer of consecration? Can you show me in all the times he prayed where he used this 5 word phrase outside the garden?

Could using the phrase "if it be thy will" just be an easy way out for people who choose not to get into the Word and find Gods will. Could it be an easy way to pray instead of spending time in prayer and fasting and seeking Gods will.

Bottom line, if you use this phrase alot, that tells me you dont know much of Gods will, his ways, his Word, or God himself!
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Post I was just taught that saying that cancels out the prayer... ProsperousBigMouth
where the faith and standing on the word??

Amazingly timely topic!

(Was it Pastor or John Bevere that was teaching this?)

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Post Re: "heal this person if it be thy will" Bullseye77
I have a dear brother in the church who turned 79 today. He had open heart surgery six weeks ago and has been in ICU ever since. He is barely clinging to life. His family is under extreme pressure. His wife does not even know where she is much of the time. The responsibility for making major decisions has fallen upon his son. The church has prayed. The family has prayed. I have prayed. People across the land have prayed. I am sure that at least some of us have prayed in faith. I was called in Sunday night and missed my service because this dear brother's blood pressure was so low they thought they were going to lose him. On the way to the hospital, I was praying. I thought about all the praying we had done, and I thought about the will of God. At this point I don't know if God is going to call him home or not. But as I thought about the will of God, I realized that the will of God is what is best for us, regardless of whether or not it matches up with our will. His will toward us is always good. So I just started to pray for the will of God to be done and I tell you, I began to experience peace. If this is wrong, I believe God will show me. I don't think I would have experienced the peace I did if I was out of order praying for the will of God to be done.
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Post Re: "heal this person if it be thy will" Rafael D Martinez
caseyleejones wrote:


I am just annoyed at people praying over me and always saying if it be thy will. Yes, Jesus prayed this, but wasnt this a prayer of consecration? Can you show me in all the times he prayed where he used this 5 word phrase outside the garden?

Could using the phrase "if it be thy will" just be an easy way out for people who choose not to get into the Word and find Gods will. Could it be an easy way to pray instead of spending time in prayer and fasting and seeking Gods will.

Bottom line, if you use this phrase alot, that tells me you dont know much of Gods will, his ways, his Word, or God himself!


No, it just says more about your Word of Faith hobby horse than anything else, actually.

If you - like the rest of the misinformed Faith movement - want to presume that God's will is to heal everyone, everytime, that His Will is to make everyone who loves Him rich and prosperous and with enough creative power to speak things into existence ex nihilo like God at creation, then that's your right. The First Amendment and freedom of consciences is yours. Just don't presume to call it Biblical Christianity.

The apostle John had no problem submitting his prayer answers to God's Will ..

And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. 1 John 5:14-15

So what's the problem with those who pray likewise? It's Biblical.

What does that say to your proud presumption about who supposedly doesn't know God's Word, Will or God Himself? Quite a bit. Pray about it.


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Post I would suggest answering the question. caseyleejones
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Post Bro. Martinez shared some scripture so I'll just... stp89
Share a little personal story:

Someone very near and dear to me was dying of cancer. This was a godly person and yes....a person of tremendous faith! This person had lived to retirement age and had lived a wonderful life of faith. For months the church (and their family) prayed without ceasing and believed God for a miracle. The person lingered on for quite a while...not experiencing total healing and not passing away...just hanging on. After everyone involved (most importantly the individual) had become absolutely physically, mentally, and spiritually exhausted through the whole process...the family decided it was time to pray for "the will of the LORD" to be done.

Immediately (and yes I do mean immediately)-there was a peace that came over everyone involved, and within a few weeks this person went home to their reward (one that I could only dream of I'm sure!). This same person had seen many miracles in their life and had experienced healing in their own body on numerous occasions. I realize I'm talking about someone who had lived a good life without regrets, but I believe the principle is the same. I think Divine healing can be a thorny subject- I certainly believe in healing and preach it...but my faith is not destroyed when the will of God trumps my desire for healing. I said I wasn't going to post scripture but I changed my mind....let's not forget the "and others...." of Hebrews chapter 11. They didn't receive earthly deliverance, but there's no indication that they had failed the will of God.

Sorry to ramble....
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4/4/06 9:23 pm


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Post Isn't the will of God....... sheepdogandy
ALWAYS in our best intrest?

Personally, I pursue the divine will.

We should cherish the divine will.

Isn't true faith confidence in the divine will, even if we don't understand it?

What about Abraham?

His confidence in the divine will overrode his paternal instinct when it came to sacrificing Isaac.

The other examples are too numerous to mention.

The sad truth is so many are "confessin" and "prohecyin" when they have no clue what God's will is in any situation.

Not everybody gets healed.

Just ask the Apostle Paul and Timothy etc...
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Post Re: "heal this person if it be thy will" loechin
The Will of God is the Word of God. You will never go wrong with praying God's Word. He is a God of Covenant. He will not Break It. I have seen God Heal many times and seen Miracles, however remember God is God an we ain't. Pray God's word and you will never go wrong.
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Post I still have yet to hear Paul or Jesus pray "if it be t caseyleejones
will" to anyone sick. COuld it be that Jesus already knew the Fathers will. Could it be that we have so rationalized it and making it an unsettled question? It is so clear to me in scripture for divine healing and you must work at believing otherwise.

I've heard people say they prayed Gods will over someone who was sick. Then they died, therefore it was Gods will they died. Are we then interpreting Gods will by experiences than according to his Word? Have we become a powerless church because we are experience driven.
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Post Caseylee Bullseye77
Please share your thoughts on the previous post by stp89, and also my previous post. It would appear that you are of the opinion we either do not have faith, or we do not know the Word of God, or we do not know when the Holy Spirit speaks to us. Is this an accurate assumption?
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Post Re: I still have yet to hear Paul or Jesus pray "if it Land of Middle Girth
caseyleejones wrote:
will" to anyone sick. COuld it be that Jesus already knew the Fathers will. Could it be that we have so rationalized it and making it an unsettled question? It is so clear to me in scripture for divine healing and you must work at believing otherwise.

I've heard people say they prayed Gods will over someone who was sick. Then they died, therefore it was Gods will they died. Are we then interpreting Gods will by experiences than according to his Word? Have we become a powerless church because we are experience driven.



Jesus in Gethsemane

Matt 26:39


39Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
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Post Is it always God's will to heal? Porpoise Driven Neptune
Last Sunday an African woman in our church came up to me before the service & asked me to pray for her sick grandmother back home in Nigeria. I was shocked - because this lady is in her 60s. I asked, "How hold is your grandmother?" It turned out she was 118!

My next question was, "What do you want me to pray for her? Do you want me to pray that she will make it into the Guinness Book of Records?"

She thought about it and realized that her grandmother is so old, and her bones so fragile, that she can't even move without fear of breaking an arm or a leg. We agreed to pray that her grandmother (who is saved & led the rest of the family to Christ) would be free from pain for the rest of her life - however long or short that may be. We also prayed publicly with the church in the service (and yes, I did share my comment about the Guinness Book of Records). On Monday her grandmother went to be with the Lord - old and full of years.

Was it necessarily the Lord's will that this woman should be healed and live to be 125?
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Post Re: "heal this person if it be thy will" Land of Middle Girth
But won't thinking like that upset a group of people who use God as a token for a spiritual slot-machine that is fixed on triple 7's? Shocked
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Post Re: "heal this person if it be thy will" Porpoise Driven Neptune
Land of Middle Girth wrote:
But won't thinking like that upset a group of people who use God as a token for a spiritual slot-machine that is fixed on triple 7's? Shocked


Probably. But do I care? Not one little bit.
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Post PIC Land of Middle Girth
4U, PDN


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Post Land, you did not read my post. I said that other than Jesus caseyleejones
in the garden, where else do you see it.

My point is this. Do you pray Gods protection over a trip and end with if it be thy will? As if maybe his will is for you to get into an accident. Are you willing to accept the fact that maybe God wants me to get into an accident and get maimed. Or, God bless this food if its your will. NO, the idea is absurd.

It is not until we come to healing that we tack on those lovely words.

Maybe this will help. I have had issues in my life where I went to the doctor, it is rare. I believed(or thought I did) for healing. Still went and took an antibiotic. Now I would much rather GOd had healed me. However, I am convinced so much that God wants me healed that I will do everything to get healed. However, I still believe that by his stripes I WAS healed. SO instead of blaming God, I will blame myself and get back into the Word.

If you question whether God wants to heal you or not, should you refrain from all doctors and meds so that Gods will is made manifest?

But what I will not do is allow lifes circumstances dictate as to whether the word of God is true. That is how we have rationalized us not getting healed. Furthermore, I have yet to hear where Jesus or Paul prayed, if it be thy will for anyone who was sick. I have not seen a place where Jesus questioned or chose not to heal someone. There is a miriad of scripture on Jesus healing people. Did not Jesus say he was doing the will of the Father? How, many times did Jesus say your faith has made you whole. While at the same time he chewed others out for not having faith.

I sincerely apologize if I have sounded harsh. I in no way want to hurt those who are grieving. And it is way out of line to tell those who are sick that they have no faith. However, where do we draw the line in determining Gods will? Do we base it on circumstances of life or Gods Word?

Bottom line, it just seems that instead of going to the Word for answers about healing, we use circumstances and life to dictate.

I always thing of the man who was lame that was carried by his friends. They pressed in and were persistent. They did not give up. That is the way we must do for anything. What alot of people in my opinion are praying microwave prayers. We want it instant and now. Then if we tack on if it be thy will, then we can ease our conscience and quit pressing in.

It seems, and not just here, that when you use scripture after scripture on Gods healing, the answers are experiential. Then guess which ones win out, the experiences.
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Post We ought to pray in God's will. Anakrino
1Jo 5:14 - And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

Ro 8:26 - Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

It is not always God's will to heal, therefore we ought to pray for God's guidance and seek God's will in every situation. One cannot ask for healing in faith if it is not God's will in the first place. Faith is more than just wishful thinking or claiming what we believe to be a good thing.

What if it is God's will to take this person home at this time? Do you automatically rule that possibility out every time?
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Post An experiential Scripture on healing. Anakrino
2Ki 13:14 - Now Elisha was fallen sick of his sickness whereof he died.

I think the real problem is Scriptural interpretation. Is healing in the Atonement? Absolutely, but Paul says in Romans 8 that we have received only the firstfruits of redemption on earth, i.e. spiritual redemption. Now, Paul says, we groan along with the rest of creation awaiting the redemption of our bodies. Until then, we get sick, we grow old and we die.

My Faith is not in physical healing so much as in God Himself.
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Post Anakrino, how did you come to this conclusion? caseyleejones
Quote:
It is not always God's will to heal, therefore we ought to pray for God's guidance and seek God's will in every situation.


Is not his will clear in scripture? There is no reason to seek Gods will about every single thing out there if its in his Word. Do you pray "if it be thy will" for the unsaved? Of course not.


Quote:
Until then, we get sick, we grow old and we die.


The bible is clear that we do grow old and die, where in scripture does it say that order.




[quote]1Jo 5:14 - And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
Quote:


I agree, but shouldnt we preface the fact of knowing his will WHEN we pray.


Faith is more than just wishful thinking or claiming what we believe to be a good thing.
Quote:


Excellent comment! Faith begins where Gods will is known.
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Post Re: Anakrino, how did you come to this conclusion? Porpoise Driven Neptune
caseyleejones wrote:
Is not his will clear in scripture? There is no reason to seek Gods will about every single thing out there if its in his Word. Do you pray "if it be thy will" for the unsaved? Of course not.


The Scripture says plainly that God is not willing that any should perish.

Is there a Scripture that says God is not willing that any should remain sick?

Otherwise this analogy will not hold.
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