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Can a Believer Speak in Tongues at Will?
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Post Ichthus77
Poimen wrote:
One could just as easily ask...

Can you foretell the future (accurately) at will?
Can you perform healings or various other miracles at will?
Can you speak a word of wisdom or knowledge at will?
Can you speak a message in tongues (for interpretation) at will?
Can you interpret a message in tongues at will?
Can you raise the dead at will?
Can you drink something deadly (and not be harmed) at will?
Can you take up poisonous snakes (with no possibility for harm) at will?

When coupled with it's counter parts the answer to the original question becomes clear...

No.



We can also ask:

Can you "dance before the Lord with all your might" at will?
Can you "sing with the understanding" at will?
Can you clap your hands unto the Lord at will?
Can you praise the Lord at will?
Can you shout unto the Lord at will?
Can you "lift up holy hands" at will?
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Memory03 wrote:
when someone turns it on and off like a spicket, it is just like that video with the two morons having a conversation in tongues on stage... nothing but embarrassment to the pentecostal church...


Memory,

There is a passage of scripture that gives us a lot of detail about speaking in tongues.

I'd appreciate a response to the specific arguments laid out in my post. It is clear from I Corinthians that Paul is talking about genuine gifts. See verse 12. Paul is correcting using tongues--a genuine gift-- out of turn (v. 14-28.)

Let's go with what the Bible teaches.
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4/3/08 8:10 am


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Post Jason Adams
I am so glad to see that folks like Memory have been delegated by God to judge other men of God while here on earth.

It is so refreshing to know that we really don't have to wait until the Judgement Day to find out who is wrong!

You know, there are a lot of things I question in this world, both in church and out. But I am not going to set myself up as judge and jury over what someone else is doing or failing to do. If I have a serious problem with it I will pray about the situation or the person seeking God's will and purpose for that situation and person.

We need to be very careful what we say and how we say it about another Christian. Unfortunately too many times we open our mouths long before our brains let alone our spirits are engaged.
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4/3/08 8:11 am


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Post roughridercog
Memory03 wrote:
when someone turns it on and off like a spicket, it is just like that video with the two morons having a conversation in tongues on stage... nothing but embarrassment to the pentecostal church...


That's when it becomes a sideshow instead of intimacy with God. Good point, Mem.
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Post Worship1980
I have only been filled with the Spirit since December. It was the most wonderful experience next to salvation that I have ever had. I am new in the Spirit so let me ask a question....I quess I thought that after being filled I would speak in tongues regularly (in prayer, during service etc) but I have not. I am so worried that I will be in the flesh (not of the Spirit). Do you think I am hindering the Spirit from speaking through me? Friendly Face
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4/3/08 8:29 am


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Post Ichthus77
First a disclaimer: I do not believe in teaching people to speak in tongues and I believe when you first receive it is 100% God initiated (except that you have to be yielded). When I first spoke in tongues I did not initiate it at all! I wasn't even expecting it, and wasn't in church, but I had been praying for it days earlier and was praising the Lord in song with a full heart. When I speak in tongues it is a fluent language and is constantly changing and varied and has never been in my experience one or two phrases repeated over and over or always the same thing. Ever since I received 23 years ago, I have had the ability to start or stop, pray outloud or quietly, or only in my mind.
However, I never GIVE the utterance becuase I have no control over WHAT comes out. No control over the language itself. I can only start or stop.

I think if all Spirit-filled believers are truthful, they can too. But they are afraid to because they have been taught that it is "not of God" and would be of the flesh because of this old teaching. If it is not of God when you start it, WHY is it the same tongues as when you are "taken over" by the Holy Ghost? How can the same tongue (language) be "of God" in one second and "something wrong" the next? (Not referring here to the misuse of tongues).

Some of the same old timers use to teach that when you get the Holy Ghost you say a few phrases in tongues and then maybe never again, and that if you have it permanently like I do then that is the gift of tongues, but i don't beleive that.

I think this "you can only speak in tongues when you are taken over by the Spirit and in an ecstatic emotional state" is primarily an old COG idea. I have never heard the same thing in other Pentecostal organizations like AOG or Foursquare. Just the opposite. And many times this teaching creates non-tongue speaking Pentecostals for all practical purposes in many cases. People who go for weeks , months, and years w/o speaking in tongues. They just sit there until maybe a really anointed evangelist comes through and they get all excited and caught up and emotional and yell out in tongues again over and over the same sentence they got years ago when they first received. I could be totally wrong on this, but it even seems sometimes like the ones that "can do it at will" seem to have a full fluent language and many that think they can only do it "when really worked up" have something very repetitious.

I don't know what I would do without being able to pray in tongues!!
There have been countless times when under intense pressure and attack, feeling discouraged and downcast and not able to pray at all. Feeling nothing at all and starting to pray in tongues. Still feeling nothing, but as I pursist, all of a sudden being flooded with His joy, presence, and anointing! It is a wonderful weapon against the enemy and against are own flesh and carnal emotions!! Hallelujah!!
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4/3/08 8:34 am


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Post Worship... res0515
too often when people get "filled" they think just because they spoke in tongues, that is all there is. We must be continually filled. We do that by seeking and praying. We should and can, if we are "filled" pray in the Spirit.
Yes I believe that we can speak and pray and sing in tongues at will. I also believe that that is different than giving a message in tongues. Messages and interpretations are without doubt as the Spirit gives the utterance.

I can drive by an accident scene, and start praying in the Spirit, because I do not know what to pray for but the Spirit does. I would encourage you to pray daily in the Spirit. Worship and allow the joy of the Lord to fill you.
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4/3/08 8:44 am


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Post I'm with J on this one Nature Boy Florida
Since I shouldn't quote his post(bad Acts manners), please read it.
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Post eagle1
Poimen wrote:
One could just as easily ask...

Can you foretell the future (accurately) at will?
Can you perform healings or various other miracles at will?
Can you speak a word of wisdom or knowledge at will?
Can you speak a message in tongues (for interpretation) at will?
Can you interpret a message in tongues at will?
Can you raise the dead at will?
Can you drink something deadly (and not be harmed) at will?
Can you take up poisonous snakes (with no possibility for harm) at will?

When coupled with it's counter parts the answer to the original question becomes clear...

No.


A better question is Can you pray at will? And with that in mind the answer is even more clear... Yes
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4/3/08 10:16 am


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Post Ichthus77
eagle1 wrote:
Poimen wrote:
One could just as easily ask...

Can you foretell the future (accurately) at will?
Can you perform healings or various other miracles at will?
Can you speak a word of wisdom or knowledge at will?
Can you speak a message in tongues (for interpretation) at will?
Can you interpret a message in tongues at will?
Can you raise the dead at will?
Can you drink something deadly (and not be harmed) at will?
Can you take up poisonous snakes (with no possibility for harm) at will?

When coupled with it's counter parts the answer to the original question becomes clear...

No.


A better question is Can you pray at will? And with that in mind the answer is even more clear... Yes


Amen. Speaking in tongues is simply prayer in the Spirit. Holy Spirit guided prayer. Unless it is a "message in tongues" to the congregation it is not the same at all as "ecstatic utterance" in the sense of OT prophets who were "taken over" by the Word of the Lord.
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4/3/08 1:05 pm


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roughridercog wrote:
Memory03 wrote:
when someone turns it on and off like a spicket, it is just like that video with the two morons having a conversation in tongues on stage... nothing but embarrassment to the pentecostal church...


That's when it becomes a sideshow instead of intimacy with God. Good point, Mem.


Can you show your view in the word. How can you interpert I Corinthians 14 to indivuate that you cannot speak in tongues at will.
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Post Memory... urbothwrong
Memory03 wrote:
if you can turn it on and off, where is the "As the Spirit gives the utterance"?


Acts is the only place that is found. When you read on over to Jude - it says building up your most Holy faith by praying in the Holy Ghost - period.

When my dad bought me my first car 14 years ago - he had to teach me how to drive it because it was a stick shift. He first started out by telling me clutch in, switch gears, & gradually release clutch while hitting accelerator. Now, that I'm 30...I can drive a stick, the car (my gift from my dad) is mine - and I don't need daddy to remind me how to drive it or when I can drive it.

Since tongues is a gift - would Acts 2 not imply the "showing you how to use it" - compared to Jude? The gift is yours - do you still need permission or shown how to use it?

Just a thought!
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Post J Ryan Herrington
I'm trying to figure out how you could use 1 Cor 14 to prove you can speak in tongues at will . . . . . Acts-celerater
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4/3/08 1:23 pm


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Post Re: Memory... J Ryan Herrington
urbothwrong wrote:

Acts is the only place that is found. When you read on over to Jude - it says building up your most Holy faith by praying in the Holy Ghost - period.

When my dad bought me my first car 14 years ago - he had to teach me how to drive it because it was a stick shift. He first started out by telling me clutch in, switch gears, & gradually release clutch while hitting accelerator. Now, that I'm 30...I can drive a stick, the car (my gift from my dad) is mine - and I don't need daddy to remind me how to drive it or when I can drive it.

Since tongues is a gift - would Acts 2 not imply the "showing you how to use it" - compared to Jude? The gift is yours - do you still need permission or shown how to use it?

Just a thought!


You can't pit two scriptures against each other friend. In your explanation, it sounds as if tongues is something you learn to use. So that means we condition ourselves to remember what we spoke so that we can turn it on when we desire to. If indeed we can turn it on, then we have conditioned ourselves psychologically as well as routinely to say the same things.

At some point, we need to recognize that everything that's jibberish ain't God.
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4/3/08 1:26 pm


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Post Re: Memory... Ichthus77
J Ryan Herrington wrote:
urbothwrong wrote:

Acts is the only place that is found. When you read on over to Jude - it says building up your most Holy faith by praying in the Holy Ghost - period.

When my dad bought me my first car 14 years ago - he had to teach me how to drive it because it was a stick shift. He first started out by telling me clutch in, switch gears, & gradually release clutch while hitting accelerator. Now, that I'm 30...I can drive a stick, the car (my gift from my dad) is mine - and I don't need daddy to remind me how to drive it or when I can drive it.

Since tongues is a gift - would Acts 2 not imply the "showing you how to use it" - compared to Jude? The gift is yours - do you still need permission or shown how to use it?

Just a thought!


You can't pit two scriptures against each other friend. In your explanation, it sounds as if tongues is something you learn to use. So that means we condition ourselves to remember what we spoke so that we can turn it on when we desire to. If indeed we can turn it on, then we have conditioned ourselves psychologically as well as routinely to say the same things.

At some point, we need to recognize that everything that's jibberish ain't God.



....and everything that's gibberish and intense emotion and shouting isn't always God either.

To me it would seem to be more of God (or at least more supernatural) if it is a language and not the same syllables over and over or the same phrase repeated each time they speak.
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Post J Ryan Herrington
Completely agree with your brother. Acts-celerater
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J Ryan Herrington wrote:
I'm trying to figure out how you could use 1 Cor 14 to prove you can speak in tongues at will . . . . .


Please read my two posts which explain these points. Look especially at Paul's arguments about using tongues (a legitimate gift) in an orderly manner leading up to verse 28, which shows that it is possible for someone to use the genuine gift of the Spirit in a disorderly manner.

1. The passage is clearly talking about the genuine gift of tongues.
2. If the Spirit made the person speak in tongues at a particular moment, we cannot say it was out of order.
3. Paul's teaching tongues-speakers that there are times to refrain from speaking in tongues shows that the choice of when to speak in tongues is under their control, at least in some cases.

I notice that I post things like this, and folks like OTCP, Mem, and Rough Rider don't respond to the particular arguments of scripture.

Can you guys comment on the specifics of I Corinthians 14 which contradict the believe that the timing of when to speak in tongues is not under the believers control.
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Post i see ur point urbothwrong
but if you are Walking in the spirit....it's not hard to speak in tongues.

and of course you control it.....are you telling me that the Holy Ghost grabs your tongue and shakes it? or do you control it?
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'as the Spirit gave them utterance' does not disprove the idea that one so gifted can speak in tongues at will.

The question is whether the Spirit will give utterance any time we choose to use the gift. I Corinthians shows that it is possible to use the gift in a way contrary to the Lord's commandments for church order, so presumably, the timing of when to use the gift is not always completely from the Spirit.

I Corinthians 14 says nothing about fake tongues. the issue here is real tongues. Paul says if you zealous of spiritual gifts, seek to excel to the edification of the church. So this is a real gift. And the issue here is that people were wanting to use a real gift, tongues, in a way that would nto edify the body (without intepretation.)

The answers are right there in I Corinthians 14. But it would be typical of this forum, honestly, for those who disagree to just ignore that fact and continue arguing for their viewpoint. Sad
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Post J Ryan Herrington
Link wrote:
J Ryan Herrington wrote:
I'm trying to figure out how you could use 1 Cor 14 to prove you can speak in tongues at will . . . . .


Please read my two posts which explain these points. Look especially at Paul's arguments about using tongues (a legitimate gift) in an orderly manner leading up to verse 28, which shows that it is possible for someone to use the genuine gift of the Spirit in a disorderly manner.

1. The passage is clearly talking about the genuine gift of tongues.
2. If the Spirit made the person speak in tongues at a particular moment, we cannot say it was out of order.
3. Paul's teaching tongues-speakers that there are times to refrain from speaking in tongues shows that the choice of when to speak in tongues is under their control, at least in some cases.

I notice that I post things like this, and folks like OTCP, Mem, and Rough Rider don't respond to the particular arguments of scripture.

Can you guys comment on the specifics of I Corinthians 14 which contradict the believe that the timing of when to speak in tongues is not under the believers control.


I think it's a matter of interpretation with 1 Cor 14. We agree on your first point. The second point is iffy. The Spirit doesn't "make" anyone speak in tongues. He gives us the utterance. We either quench the Spirit or obey the Spirit. As for point 3, the fact that Paul is speaking on when to refrain actually reflects the opposite to me. I see Paul as telling the Corinthians to stop the speaking in tongues at will because it's out of order with the Spirit. I don't feel it shows that we have control as much as it shows order and purpose of tongues in a service or meeting.

I'm not saying we don't have control. Having control and having the ability is two different things. I have control over my finances, but it doesn't mean I have the ability to pay my bills.
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