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The Bible doesn't condemn or condone masturbation

 
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Post The Bible doesn't condemn or condone masturbation doyle
The longest trip in the world is a guilt trip and there's plenty of things in the Bible to make us all feel guilty or unworthy. Romans 3:23 alone puts us in our place when it says "All have sinned and have lived below the standard that brings glory to God."

The Bible doesn't flinch one bit in condemning adultery, homosexuality, incest, bestiality, rape and on and on but there's no mention of masturbation.

Even the ancient Jewish writings such as the Talmud, say nothing about it. That's rather strange for if one has ever read Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers or Deuteronomy there are few things in life, including sexual matters, not dealt with.

In seeking to bolster teachings about this topic, some have attempted to twist the scripture concerning the incident when a guy "spilled his seed on the ground and God killed him." But that wasn't masturbation. That guy had been commanded by God to have intercourse with that woman so the seed-line would continue. But he withdrew and spilled his seed on the ground instead of doing what God said.

When asked about the subject of masturbation, how is the preacher to respond? Some people want the preacher to be their conscience. That's not what we were called to do. We are preachers and teachers of the Gospel and to my knowledge, the topic of masturbation isn't mentioned in there anywhere.

One of the really difficult things we deal with when it comes to a subject like this, is that we've bought into the belief that sex is sin. I once asked a large group of older teens who did they think invented sex; God or the devil. Almost all of them said it was the devil.

But though it blows our mind to consider, it was God who thought it up and created the human being with the inner urges for it so the human race would continue.

Even so, we who love the Lord can very definitely feel guilty or far less than worthy because of our struggles with sexual matters.

Since the Bible is basically silent on the topic is it possible each individual has to give an account of their actions in accordance with their motives and their heart for God? Is this one of those matters where Paul says "Work out your own salvation."

As a minister I certainly wouldn't heap more guilt and condemnation on people but neither would I make statements that the Bible condones it. I'd just state the case that while the Bible says much (MUCH) about various practices of sexual immorality, it doesn't deal with the topic of masturbation nor does it call it immoral.

The Bible definitely DOES DEAL STRONGLY with our thought life and though I'm a theological conservative and believe the Bible is the Word of God, I hesitate to teach what it doesn't.

If it was required that the human being become thoughtless prior to sex, would it be possible to have sex?

Doyle
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Last edited by doyle on 3/4/08 3:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post Cletus Bob
how about this scripture:

Romans 6:13- "and do not go on presenting the members of your body as instruments of unrighteousness..."

now, I'm not trying to be crude here, but I have heard the male 'genitals' referred to as a 'member' many times...and if Paul isn't talking about that 'member' being used as an instrument of unrighteousness, what is he talking about?
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Post Re: Doyle...I am certain this must have been brought up... Poimen
Tom Sterbens wrote:


If that is the case...one must ask, "What does the hand have to do with the whole recreating of the "look/lust/adultery(sexual act) scenario?"

How does one recreate this spirit of this sexual violation with just the use of, my eyes, my thoughts, and my hand?

It seems to be a very distinct combination of unique components that would seem to add up to something.........

What do you think.........??


In the given passage, your presentation's implications seems to be valid.
However, I would note that any act of adultery, whatever the part or parts used to commit the sin, is wrong. Thus masturbation as a means of facilitating sexual immorality would be wrong, yes.

The problem is that some propose one can engage in the physical act of masturbation without committing adultery in their thoughts or heart.

I find that extremely difficult to believe (except in the case of married persons thinking holy thoughts, and sex is holy in marriage, about their spouse). Yet, since Scripture is not explicit on masturbation I can only teach on adultery, lust, motivation, temptation, and sexual purity.

I am confident that the Holy Ghost is well able to apply the light of the gospel on the situation to the conscience of any erring thereby. Wink
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Post Poimen
Cletus Bob wrote:
how about this scripture:

Romans 6:13- "and do not go on presenting the members of your body as instruments of unrighteousness..."

now, I'm not trying to be crude here, but I have heard the male 'genitals' referred to as a 'member' many times...and if Paul isn't talking about that 'member' being used as an instrument of unrighteousness, what is he talking about?


well, certainly any member used for sinful purposes is used wrongly. But that does not address masturbation specifically, though it can and does include it when such is an act of impurity.
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Post Doyle, you are correct.....the bible does not say one caseyleejones
way or the other. What some people are attempting to do is take a conviction of theirs and then wrap scripture around it. We all do it.

Tom, that is exactly what you have done here bro.

However, the scripture is silent. When scripture is silent, then my conscience is involved. What is wrong for you may not be for me. That is what scripture states.

However, your convictions are to be kept between yourself and God and not on others.

We also have cultural issues that we are bound to as well when our convictions are formed.

You can judge me on scripture, but you cannot on your convictions or on culture.

be blessed
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3/4/08 8:57 am


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Post surprisingly Da Sheik
What no one seems to be mentioning is that while something may indeed be lawful, it certainly doesn't mean it is expedient. I'm not convinced that masturbation is lawful, but even if it is, I would never encourage someone to do it.

For every one in a billion men or women who are able to commit this act without sin, there are probably millions who become enslaved to this. Masturbation and pornography always seem to go together.
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3/4/08 9:42 am


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Post Dave Dorsey
The notion that this is a matter of conscience and not law continues to baffle me. If you can masturbate prior to wedlock without adulterous lust, passion and desire for a particular person or situation burning in your heart then you are certainly doing it differently than I ever did.

The fact that Jesus said if you even look at a woman with lust in your heart you've already committed adultery with her is more than enough grounds to establish this act as sinful. The Bible may not directly condemn masturbation but it certainly condemns adultery.
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Post Trips, I for one will not take the view of the original caseyleejones
poster of the other thread and say its a gift from God. However, I do understand your point of what it can lead to.

Is the ACT wrong or is it our thought process? One can lust in church as easily as in the act of masturbating.

You will also not see me defending the act as being okay. ....though I cannot stand and defend it either.

I have not stated my conviction on the matter because as I stated before that is between God and me.

Me, I would tend to oppose it and think it is wrong for me. That is my conviction. Yet, I cannot find it in scripture to the contrary.

Nobody has yet made this a matter of law or scriptures at this point. Sure, some have taken scripture, danced around it, made inferences and used logic...but it just is not there.

Lastly, I think that it might also be a product of our culture. Today we marry at 25 or much older. When marriages were arranged, there was much less divorce. Marriage took place in early teens. Maybe that is when marriage should be taking place and the way God intended.
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Post Sheik, you are correct..... caseyleejones
There are many things lawful for me to do but not profitable. Thus, I consider my conscience as well as those around me.

I do not drink because of conscience, pure and simple. Not mine, but my children and those I go to church with. I have a good friend who is a wonderful bible teacher and spirit filled ....and....has a glass of wine once in while.
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Post What causes masturbation to be sinful? doyle
Without natural urges put into the human life by God so the human race would continue, there probably wouldn't be any sex. There must be the natural drive or desire for there to be sex even among people who are married.

By the time the human being is about 12-14, there are urges that begin in that person, natural urges. In young men, seed begins to form whether they are Christians or not. That happens naturally and evidently was planned by God since He's the one who designed the human being.

Or, do we believe while God wasn't looking the Devil slipped evil urges into God's design?

If we believe the release of that naturaly-produced seed is sinful before marriage, even if it's in the form of what some call a wet dream, then are we ready to say God causes sin?

The urges are natural, the seed develops without the male having to even try. If there was no development of seed there would be something physically wrong with that person's body. If no seed developed even we preachers would advise the person to go to the doctor.

Yet, when the natural desire for sex develops in a young person and seed is automatically formed in the body of the male, we somehow feel it is sin if that seed is released. Are wet dreams more holy than masturbation? Doesn't the person who has such dreams think sexual things?

Of course, none of us are advocates of such dreams or of masturbation but regardless how we personally feel about the topic, THE BIBLE DOES NOT mention it.

Doesn't that strike you as rather odd? It rails against homosexuality, adultry, incest, rape etc, but there is no mention of masturbation.

All I'm doing in these articles is try to respond to the question a poster asked, "Is Masturbation Sin?"

Though like many other posters I can't genuinely grasp how it would not be sin, I'm trying to do some critical thinking.

WHAT CAUSES masturbation to be sin?

As shown previously, there's no sin in the need or the seed. So, what makes it sin?

Is it sinful for the seed to come out of the male body before marriage?
How can that be? The body automatically produces the seed and keeps on doing so for decades whether the person is married or not. The body is not designed to hold decades of naturally-produced seed.

Are we saying seed that stays in the body is not sin but if the seed comes out of the body except for marriage, it is sin? Are wet dreams sin when they happen while the person is asleep?

While we do mostly agree that the thought life can be sin, does that include while he's asleep? How does one control his thinking while asleep?

Not meaning here to be crude in any way, but if there's no sin in the natural need or the seed, is it the touching that's sin? I think not. We touch ourselves all the time when shaving, bathing, putting on creams and checking ourselves for lumps and bumps.

We've basically established there is no sin in the need or the seed. Both are natural and the human being doesn't even have to try for those two things to happen.

We've also established that a person touching themselves is not sin.

We've also established that the Bible definitely does teach that our thought life can be sin. I suppose the Lord's words "If a man looks on a woman to lust after her..." haunts every sincere Christian man.

Is it the combining of such thoughts with the desire for physical pleasure that's the sin? Are we saying pleasure is sin?

I don't pretend to know any more about this topic than any of the rest of our viewers but I think the ole automatic guilt trips on this topic are not pleasing to God either.

I don't know the answers either but if the Bible doesn't deal directly with the topic why do we have so much difficulty in saying that?

Doyle
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Post Tom, what scripture are you specifically caseyleejones
talking about? The one you mentioned or the one regarding convictions? Acts-perienced Poster
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Post Dave Dorsey
Quote:
WHAT CAUSES masturbation to be sin?

As shown previously, there's no sin in the need or the seed. So, what makes it sin?

The insanely lustful, adulterous throughts that go through one's mind while he's doing it. By this logic, there should be nothing whatsoever wrong with pornography or perhaps even premarital sex. After all, the need comes from God! Is it my fault that I haven't been able to find a good spouse yet? I still have a need and it still has to be fulfilled!

If you can masturbate without thinking of someone and lusting after her, congratulations, you're better than I ever was. But as another poster said, it leads to bondage. Soon whatever you're doing is not going to be enough. You're going to need to think of something. Then even thinking of something won't be enough, you'll have to see it. And then soon just seeing a woman won't be enough, she'll have to be naked. And soon a still picture of a naked woman won't be enough to fulfill that "God-given need."

When you yield to your flesh, next time your flesh will demand more. You'll become sin's slave. When does masturbation become a sin? Is it a sin when you're looking at pornography? If it is, then how is it not a sin when you're just imagining pornography?
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Post Re: Casey, Poimen, Doyle, anyone... The CoG Bullet
Tom, I qualify as "anyone" and I'm a fairly skilled exegete. I do try to used a sound, conservative hermeneutic.

You're reaching0-your reading your point into the scripture.

Without doing my homework-I'd say its a clear cut case of alliteration. Hand-eye-cause-effect. See-do, not necessarily see- and do the hand thing. If you take the "hand" literally then you need to take the eye literally as well. How does your right eye cause you to sin? It's taking in sensory stimuli. How does your hand cause you to sin? By acting on that stimuli. If you limit it to hand=manual masturbation, you have compromised the entire context. You've subjected the scripture to your pre-conceived point.

Also, why "right eye", "right hand"...what about left handed people. Can I close my right eye and watch porno movies with my left only? Once again, it's a literary/rhetorical device. The point is much larger than "don't do yourself."

Give us some backup from some well known commentators and I'll stand corrected if need be. I find these things are rarely for one-hit wonders, having been missed by centuries of theologians. The Puritans would have jumped all over this one if there was any meat there.

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Tom Sterbens wrote:
Please tell me your take on the passage of scripture.

This request is neither rhetorical or condescending presupposition.

caseyleejones wrote:
What some people are attempting to do is take a conviction of theirs and then wrap scripture around it. We all do it.

Tom, that is exactly what you have done here bro.

I would really like to know what this scripture is saying that would support your assertion.

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Post Okay Tom I'll give it a shot.... Mike Burgner
When Jesus said, "Whoever looks at a woman to lust after here has already committed adultery in his heart I believe He was referring to lust. He separated looking from lusting by using two separate words. It is natural and normal for men to enjoy LOOKING at women. Its in our DNA to look at women and admire how beautiful God made them. However, looking can turn to lusting very quickly if we're not careful. If you see a gorgeous woman walking right in front of you in the mall its normal to notice she is beautiful, but if you beging to look too long you will begin to imagine and fanticize about what she looks like naked, or what it would be like to have sex with her. At that point you have crossed the line and gone from looking to lusting.

Let me say that we cannot take the "holier than thou" approach and ignore the fact that we are men and enjoy looking at women. If you are a man and not attracted to women you're in denial or gay! We have to bounce our eyes away from women, pictures, commercials, etc. BEFORE we cross the line and lust. Now having said that, let me associate this with what Jesus said in Matthew 5.

I think its clear from Jesus' words that lusting is a sin as adultery is a sin. If we're lusting after women we are committing adultery in our hearts and adultery starts in the heart before our bodies get in the sack! The people of Jesus' day didn't have Playboy, Penthouse, and internet porn or Hooters billboards all over the city or TV commercials with half-naked women. This "lusting" issue is more important in our time than ever before. Some use Matthew 5 to say that masturbation is a sin because you have to look at porn while giving yourself the "right hand of fellowship." Of course if someone is looking at porn and taking care of their own business, it is lust and adultery the way I see Matthew 5.

Is is possible to masturbate without looking at porn or fantisizing about a woman? Can a single man who feels like he's about to explode relieve himself of the pressure down below without lusting? I'm not brave enough to answer these two questions---maybe someone else will tackle it, but Matthew 5 is the closest thing in Scripture we have to covering the issue of masturbation, and it leaves us with a question on the issue rather than an answer.
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Post Okay Tom I'll give it a shot.... Mike Burgner
When Jesus said, "Whoever looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery in his heart I believe He was referring to lust. He separated looking from lusting by using two separate words. It is natural and normal for men to enjoy LOOKING at women. It's in our DNA to look at women and admire how beautiful God made them. However, looking can turn to lusting very quickly if we're not careful. If you see a gorgeous woman walking right in front of you in the mall, it's normal to notice she is beautiful, but if you beging to look too long you will begin to imagine and fanticize about what she looks like naked, or what it would be like to have sex with her. At that point you have crossed the line and gone from looking to lusting.

Let me say that we cannot take the "holier than thou" approach and ignore the fact that we are men and enjoy looking at women. If you're a man and not attracted to women you're in denial or gay! We have to bounce our eyes away from women, pictures, commercials, etc. BEFORE we cross the line and lust. Now having said that, let me associate this with what Jesus said in Matthew 5.

I think its clear from Jesus' words that lusting is a sin as adultery is a sin. If we're lusting after women we are committing adultery in our hearts and adultery starts in the heart before our bodies get in the sack! The people of Jesus' day didn't have Playboy, Penthouse, and internet porn, or Hooters billboards all over the city, or TV commercials with half-naked women. This "lusting" issue is more important in our time than ever before. Some use Matthew 5 to say that masturbation is a sin because you have to look at porn while giving yourself the "right hand of fellowship." Of course if someone is looking at porn and taking care of their own business, it is lust and adultery the way I see Matthew 5.

Is is possible to masturbate without looking at porn or fantisizing about a woman? Can a single man who feels like he's about to explode relieve himself of the pressure down below without lusting? I'm not brave enough to answer these two questions---maybe someone else will tackle it, but Matthew 5 is the closest thing in Scripture we have to covering the issue of masturbation, and it leaves us with a question on the issue rather than an answer.
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