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Is Masturbation a Sin?
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Post Coincidence manogod
Hey, is it just a coincidence that this thread about masturbation got a sticky?
Just askin
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Ken Shelton
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2/29/08 10:44 am


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This post is somewhat graphic for a post on this forum. I try not to be too graphic. It describes some of the Biblical passages. So be warned and skip if you do not care to read.

The real issue for me is whether the Bible teaches that masturbation is a sin.

Some people in history have called it 'Onanism' as if the story of Onan implies that masturbation were a sin. Actually, he was doing coitus interruptus. Masturbation may or may not have been involved. The thing he did that displeased the Lord was in not raising up seed to his brother (but sleeping with the woman nontheless.)

Orthodox Judaism forbids ejaculation out the birth canal, probably based on arguments around the Onan passage. Maybe they based the idea on all the passages about the importance of hacing children as well, and their whole philosophy of sex and reproduction.

The Law of Moses does not forbid masturbation in that long list of sexual sins that Israel was forbidden to commit, and for which certain Gentile groups were driven out of the land of Canaan.

Some people have argued that Jesus statement that if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you is a reference to masturbation. One could sin with the hand in connection to sexual lust without masturbating. I'm thinking of an episode of nightcourt where the Dan got his hand somehow into the judge's joke powder, and all the women got out of the elevator Dan was in with hand prints on their backsides.
I'm not quite sure on that. I think one of the gospels says hand or foot in another context.

I do think it is possible for someone to masturbate without having lustful thoughts. Some married couples might testify to the fact that they can have intercourse without thinking about sex, so why couldn't someone masturbate the same way?

I've read that the Greek Orthodox consider masturbators to be 'malakos.' Malakos means soft. It is a word in I Corinthians 6 in that list of sins that mentions 'abusers of themselves with mankind, nor effeminate....' Abusers of themselves with mankind are referred to as 'homosexuals' in the NIV. The Greek word, Arsenokoites, I think, looks like Paul took the words arseno, for man, and koite, for sex right out of the verse that says do not lay with a man as one does with a woman.

I think 'malakos' or the 'softy' is the catamite, the other dude in the nasty homosexual sex act, the subserviant or passive guy as opposed to the arsenokoite taking. At least one Greek scholar sees it that way, too. And I think the NIV has a footnote describing the malakos there as a catamite, so by deduction, they probably think the arsenokoite is the other participant in the vile act.

A malakos might do a number of nasty things. Perhaps the Greek Orthodox see a masturbator as someone who is being a 'malakos' to himself. If that is the reasoning, then it would make sense to see the masturbator as both an arsenokoite and a malakos at the same time. I remember hearing about one campus evangelist who had ties to brother Jed admitting to being a homosexual for masturbating, since he was having sex with himself, a man.

I don't really subscribe to this view, but is the strongest Biblical argument I've heard in regard to masturbation.

There is a problem with outlawing masturbation as it relates to the couple. Does that mean neither man nor woman can do anything to 'help themselves' during marital relations? How far do you take that? What about applying KY? Is that forbidden? Do you have to ask for help?
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Post Dave Dorsey
Link, I'm saying this with all sincerely and honesty, that was the most interesting Greek study I think I've ever read. Not just because of the topic it involved. It was just a very scholarly, straight-faced look at the situation and it was amazingly interesting to read. Now 67% friendlier!
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Post Re: Memory? Memory03
Steve LaFever wrote:
Are you seriously saying you are thinking of God when you are "with" your wife?

Are you thinking of God when you go to the Bathroom?

I must admit that sometimes I don't even like to (just) lie in bed with my wife with no clothes because I know God can see me, but that is about the extent of me thinking of God when I'm with my wife. I know that sounds weird because he can see us regardless of whether we have clothes on or not. I don't have a problem taking a shower with no clothes, but for some odd reason, I feel strange to do it in other places. How's that for messed up Puritan thinking Smile

I'm sure everybody already knew I was weird, so this is just the final icing on the cake isn't it Smile

I've tried to read the Bible sometimes when I'm on the pot, and it just feels too weird and so I won't.

Yea, I know I am really warped Smile




Steve... the man said he tells his kids that masturbation was a gift from God... IF it is a "Gift" from God then l ask the question... when they are diddling with themselves, enjoying the "GIFT" from God, are they "worshiping" God in His presence? or are they thinking about someone they are attracted too, nekkid, performing sexual acts with them? that's a bit like saying "l was tempted by God" because after all, He gave me the desire for sex... l would also ask the poster if his kids were boys or girls... l can't see ANY father coaching his daughters to masturbate... Shocked Shocked Shocked

he won't answer the questions...
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2/29/08 12:51 pm


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Post This Thread Is Heartbreaking Bullseye77
I have read this thread in total amazement. It is very revealing as to the spiritual condition of the church at large. I am saddened by it. Only a couple of posts have offered any opposition to the general concensus that masturbation is acceptable. It proposed that this is a normal and inconsequential part of life. Many posters have made more than necessary confessions about their own struggles, and have written them off as baggage heaped upon them by some prudish, puritanical parents or elders. So sad.
God in His creation of man placed within him many different drives and appetites. The sex drive being one of the most powerful. There are appetites for food and water. There are desires for comfort and pleasure. It is pretty much an accepted fact that any of these desires, drives and appetites that are not controlled and limited can lead to trouble. Over-eating has it's consequences. The desire for pleasure has it's consequences revealed in alcoholism and drug addiction. But this one powerful drive, the one most difficult to control, is now given license to be fulfilled in a way that can only satisfy the flesh, and never satisfy the spiritual aspect of a marital relationship.
Reasons, of a sort, have been offered as to why this practice is acceptable. The need for physical release, medical reasons, relief from pain, etc. The bottom line is that these conditions are brought on as a response to stimuli which arouse and inflame these passions. In this modern time, it seems that every aspect of the culture is somehow intent on providing the stimuli. Sex in movies and television; the lyrics of popular music; advertising; styles of clothing, and so much more. As an aside, I have not been to Hardee's since the car wash commercial. I suppose that commercial was intended to entice more than one appetite.
The problem with masturbation is that in order to engage in it, there has to be an object of arousal. That object becomes an idol, whether it is a picture, or a memory or an unfulfilled desire. That object, or idol is set up in the mind, and for the moment, rules the mind and body. Someone is getting cheated here, whether it is the Christ Who is Lord also of the body, or the wife, who should be a part of any sexual experience. There is an aspect of worship here, but I have not time nor space to discuss that.
After the act is completed, and there is a satiation of the desire. But it is only temporary. The desire will return, the idol will be more graphic, and there will be a repetition of this cycle until a picture, or a mental idol will no longer satisfy. The appetite will be in control and a real flesh and blood partner will be required. And there are plenty of them available. Talk about guilt. Your kids will have some to deal with then.
I truly feel sorry for the children whose father tells them that masturbation is a gift from God. They are in for real trouble as they feed and cultivate their sexual appetites. Just because it's a struggle, and it is, is no reason to give in to it. And if you fall, don't lay there. Get up. Pray up. And fight on.
What is the next appetite and desire of the flesh that we will legalize with our human reasoning?
No personal attacks upon anyone intended here. But I am more convinced than ever that we need a return to God. The evidence of our spiritual mentality is written here, and in the lives of the generation we have nurtured with our new found liberal philosophies.
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2/29/08 2:34 pm


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Post Re: Memory? The CoG Bullet
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Post Dave Dorsey
Bullet, isn't the way it should be done? Colossians 3:17 says, "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him." 1 Corinthians 10:31 says, "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God."

As Link said, I intend in no way to be graphic or crude with the following. You have been warned.

I'm getting married in 36 days and have often thought about these verses in the light of my forthcoming relationship with my wife. Despite His omnipresence, and despite the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in both my fiancee and I, while I know He will be present, I do not expect that He will be watching. But with that said, I can assure you that each and every time my wife and I make love, we will be doing it (this post is in abject, total seriousness and no pun was intended) in the name of the Lord Jesus, we will be doing it to the glory of God, and I can absolutely assure you that we will be giving thanks to God the Father through the Lord Jesus the whole way through.

How can I say that about such a carnal, fleshly act? Because when my wife and I make love, God will not in any way view it as a carnal, fleshly act. To Him it will be the absolute perfect culmination of the relationship He created for us. It will have been done His way (we will have never had sex with each other before our wedding night, we will both be striving above all else to pleasure and prefer the other over ourselves, we will not in any way defraud each other, and our sexual relationship, physically pleasurable as it may be, will transcend that and will stand as the absolute spiritual, soulish and physical fulfillment of the agape love we have for one another.) And I can promise you without doubt that it will be pleasing to Him, and that it will bring Him glory.

As to eating at a buffet, certainly an obedience of those scriptures and a life lived in the Spirit and exhibiting the fruit of the Spirit could exemplify itself there. Can God be glorified by our dining experience at an all-you-can-eat? Certainly so, we know that God created food that tastes good, and we know He is glorified when we resist the fleshly desire of gluttony and live reserved before Him.

As far as pooping goes, there's not much there that could either bring glory to or detract glory from God. But I will say this: I love a good childish bathroom joke, but lately I have been working to remove that sort of thing from my life, because I know -- for me, in my life -- it does not bring glory to God. So I don't know how that necessarily pertains to the application of Col 3:17 and 1 Cor 10:31 in the bathroom, but I can say that I certainly strive to do nothing that would fail to bring glory to God in that area of my life.

And so that brings us back to the topic of this thread. I know you've heard of Keith Moore, I think you and I have discussed him before. I remember him preaching along this line once. He was talking specifically about the use of tobacco. Anyone who is sincere in interpreting the scriptures will concede that, while tobacco use may not be helpful, to paraphrase 1 Cor 6:12, it is certainly in no way ever deemed unlawful. So in answering the question, "Is it a sin to smoke?" Brother Keith referenced these verses. He said something like, "If you can take a big old drag off a cigarette and do it in the Name of the Lord Jesus and to the glory of God, then you go right on ahead and do it!" No judgment, no condemnation. If you can do it in line with these verses, then certainly there is no reason why you shouldn't.

So I would say concerning masturbation, while other posters may be correct that there is nothing specifically referencing masturbation in our Biblical text, you should do it only if you can do it in the Name of the Lord Jesus and to the glory of God.

In 36 days, I will enjoy the wife of my youth in the Name of the Lord Jesus and to the glory of God. From now on, I will be more circumspect when I am eating, because thinking about this post has opened my eyes in that regard. I will be even more watchful about the things that come out of my mouth, making sure that they are in the Name of the Lord Jesus and to the glory of God. And if one can masturbate in the same way, then I would certainly encourage him to do so.

I won't hold my breath.
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2/29/08 3:46 pm


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trips, indeed that is the way it should be done. I couldn't agree more.

A natural, biological, God-given function in your body *is* a gift from God.
The same gift can become a curse used in the wrong way or outside of glory to God.

Yes, I can see how masturbation could be to the glory of God in the same way that eating a steak could be. I thank God for a big greasy hamburger or a plate or fried streak-o-lean with some redeye gravy and grits, because GLORY TO GOD it's a gift. Is it good for me? Not long term. Not if I have it every day. It will kill me. If I eat three plates of it now it will make me sick. But once in awhile, glory to God...it is a fine thing and I praise God for it.

speaking of smoking-Charles Hadden Spurgeon had a guest preacher in his church one night who didn't know of his love for fine cigars, and in the pulpit really gave the tobacco smokers a hard time. After the sermon Spurgeon went to the pulpit, and knowing that everyone in his church knew of his love for cigars, he was obliged to answer. While respecting his guest speaker, CHS made it clear that tonight, after church he would relax at home, and smoke a cigar to the glory of God. So yes, it can be done.

Two packs of Marlboros a day will kill you, and do it slowly and painfully.
A fine Cuban cigar, if you have a taste for them-is a wonderful treat to be used for the glory of God. I could smoke one (on occasion) and read my Bible and have a great time with the Lord. I'd say a blessing over one. Tobacco in itself is not evil, it's the way it's put to use.

Like I say, good for you on your standards. Its what God has put on your heart. You are very fortunate that in a few days you're going to go on your honeymoon and I hope you get all the sex you ever dreamed of and it keeps up for the rest of your natural life. But there are others in different situations, who have biological needs that the Lord placed in them for a reason. Miss Right may not be there for them-ever. Does that mean they must suffer in perpetuity just so they can be close to God?

I really believe you're making a law where there isn't one. Yours is a choice and a personal standard-and a real fine one-for you. The scripture does not require your personal stand, and I don't believe you or anyone here have established that it comes close to doing so.

Blessings...

Bullet




tripsD wrote:
Bullet, isn't the way it should be done? Colossians 3:17 says, "And whatever
I won't hold my breath.

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In response to Bullseye
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The problem with masturbation is that in order to engage in it, there has to be an object of arousal. That object becomes an idol, whether it is a picture, or a memory or an unfulfilled desire. That object, or idol is set up in the mind, and for the moment, rules the mind and body.


It seems like all the reasoning here that masturbation is a sin is based on the idea that you have to lust and have dirty pictures in front of you or in your mind to do it. I associate masturbation with teenagers. Not all teenagers need an 'object of arousal' to engage in it. Just hear someone say 'sex' and blood starts flowing to certain body parts in some of those teen years, for some of them. Not everyone is 50 or 60.

And not everyone thinks in pictures, either. I don't accept the premise that one has to lust after some person to engage in this behavior. If that is the soul basis of arguing against it, that is not really a valid argument, imo.

Also, let's suppose some married man is called off to Iraq. He engages in this behavior but is thinknig about his wife. I don't see how you can condemn a man for fantasizing about his own wife. Why would it not be wrong for him to make love to her, but wrong for him to think about doing it? If the argument that it must involve fantasy is your only argument, then I would say it is weak indeed, because it does not have to involve fantasizing about someone, and in some cases it could involve fantasizing about someone you are allowed to fantasize about (your wife.)

I once read about a ferrel child. Her grandmother just stuck her up in an attic from her childhood and barely talked to her. When she was discovered, she was put in the custody of some linguists, I think, who studied her language ability or lack thereof. I heard of her in a sociology class inc ollege as well. The sociology professor talked about her lack of social awareness and said she would just sit there and masturbate. Do you think she was necessarily fantasizing about someone? I doubt it. She probably didn't meet people before she figured out she could do that.

I listed some of the theological arguments I had read along these lines in a prevous message.
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2/29/08 10:17 pm


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Post Bullseye, while I see and understand where you are caseyleejones
coming from, one must consider scripture.

A general rule that I teach is where scripture is silent, one must follow conscience

There are many traditions that have been passed on to us by our elders in which some are good and some are bad. Yet, many of them would not pass scripture test.

The bible also says that if I base a belief on conscience or conviction, I am to keep that between myself and God.

Here are some issues. Some used to think there there was only one Godly sex position and in your bedroom only. Why? Who knows.

While there are other factors such as neighbors seeing through your windows as to why you should not have sex on the couch, that is not in scripture.

I have pastor friends who stood up in the pulpit and said oral sex is of the devil.

What does scripture say?

Though I would not feel comfortable telling little Johnny and Suzie to release his or her valve every morning, I have to ask...what does scripture say.

Lastly, in time past parents have caught their kids doing their thing and then they scolded them callling it dirty and what not. However, when we get older, we realize there was a real possiblity and mommie and daddie were doing to each other what they called us dirty for doing.

My point, if your concience says its wrong, then it is wrong for you. However, I cannot let someone elses convictions shape or mold my beliefs.

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Post Not sure if this has been mentioned Pastor Gary
Not sure if this has been mentioned in this long thread, as I admit I have not read every post, but...

In a "Ministry Issues in Gender and Human Sexuality" class I took in seminary, we dealt with this in passing.

One point I have not yet heard is that some married men masturbate as an act of love for their wives. If a man experiences premature ejaculation during sex with his wife, she can be left unfulfilled and frustrated by the duration of the act. A man who is aware and caring might choose to masturbate several hours before (in anticipation of intercourse) as a way of diminishing the speed of response during sex, thereby providing a better experience for his wife.

Just wanted to add that to the mix of thoughts.
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Post Could it be categorized as Randy Johnson
Debauchery? An overindulgence in sensuality?

As human beings created in the image and likeness of God we are spirit-beings and a tri-unity of spirit, mind and body. This fusion of three elements in to one being means that whatever happens to one affects the other two in some way.

We can try to compartmentalize our physical actions in our minds all we want, but since we are a tri-unity there is nothing that we can do with our bodies that does not impact our entire being.

Could it be that some people masturbate for the same reason that some people overeat?? It's not necessarily connected to sex as much as it is connected to self-comfort, a way to feel better about ourselves in a very physical manner.

Could it be that for some people masturbation is not triggered by a need for sexual release but by a need for emotional release.

An example. Suppose I'm a physically healthy male, I don't think about sex all the time (I know, an oxymoron), but there is a girl to whom I am especially attracted. For one reason or another she is not interested in me beyond friendship. I"m hurt emotionally, so I go home and masturbate, imagining an acceptance and relationship with her that has no chance of reality, but it gives me comfort to imagine what it would be like if she accepted me and wanted me. In this case, the masturbation is an accompaniment to my psychological/emotional self-comfort. Sex is a secondary issue. Can anyone relate to what I'm saying?
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Post Re: Not sure if this has been mentioned Dave Dorsey
Pastor Gary wrote:
Just wanted to add that to the mix of thoughts.

I sort of assumed the conversation here was focused on premarital masturbation. Within a marriage, it seems as perfectly reasonable as any other sexual act, so long as it's done with mutual consent. The example you cited is very good, as is the question of a man or wife who are apart from each other. In that case, I would think it wouldn't matter how lustful your thoughts are; if you're thinking of your wife and not defrauding her, you really can't, by definition, be commiting adultery.

My objection to masturbation is the same as my objection to any other sort of premarital sexual activity.
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Post Re: Not sure if this has been mentioned Randy Johnson
tripsD wrote:
Within a marriage, it seems as perfectly reasonable as any other sexual act, so long as it's done with mutual consent.


It would be interesting to hear a spouse's opinion about it. I have a feeling very few women would be thrilled with the idea of their husband's practice of this.
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Post Re: Not sure if this has been mentioned Dave Dorsey
PastorRandy wrote:
It would be interesting to hear a spouse's opinion about it. I have a feeling very few women would be thrilled with the idea of their husband's practice of this.

So there's the catch, the "mutual consent."
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Post Re: Not sure if this has been mentioned Randy Johnson
tripsD wrote:
PastorRandy wrote:
It would be interesting to hear a spouse's opinion about it. I have a feeling very few women would be thrilled with the idea of their husband's practice of this.

So there's the catch, the "mutual consent."


Well, my guess would be that if a husband did this without his wife's approval or knowledge, when she found out she would be hurt and think there was something wrong with her or that he thought there was something wrong with her, and that she didn't meet his needs.
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Post Re: Could it be categorized as Memory03
PastorRandy wrote:
Debauchery? An overindulgence in sensuality?

As human beings created in the image and likeness of God we are spirit-beings and a tri-unity of spirit, mind and body. This fusion of three elements in to one being means that whatever happens to one affects the other two in some way.

We can try to compartmentalize our physical actions in our minds all we want, but since we are a tri-unity there is nothing that we can do with our bodies that does not impact our entire being.

Could it be that some people masturbate for the same reason that some people overeat?? It's not necessarily connected to sex as much as it is connected to self-comfort, a way to feel better about ourselves in a very physical manner.

Could it be that for some people masturbation is not triggered by a need for sexual release but by a need for emotional release.

An example. Suppose I'm a physically healthy male, I don't think about sex all the time (I know, an oxymoron), but there is a girl to whom I am especially attracted. For one reason or another she is not interested in me beyond friendship. I"m hurt emotionally, so I go home and masturbate, imagining an acceptance and relationship with her that has no chance of reality, but it gives me comfort to imagine what it would be like if she accepted me and wanted me. In this case, the masturbation is an accompaniment to my psychological/emotional self-comfort. Sex is a secondary issue. Can anyone relate to what I'm saying?




is that not the perfect example of "lust of the flesh"? desiring someone/something that is beyond your reach with no realistic chance of her ever marrying you? yet your loins still burn/ache for them, so you lye there dwelling on the thoughts that they have submitted to your advances... those are the very situations that romance novels are made of... all it is is giving into temptations...
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3/1/08 9:27 pm


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Post Re: Not sure if this has been mentioned Memory03
PastorRandy wrote:
tripsD wrote:
PastorRandy wrote:
It would be interesting to hear a spouse's opinion about it. I have a feeling very few women would be thrilled with the idea of their husband's practice of this.

So there's the catch, the "mutual consent."


Well, my guess would be that if a husband did this without his wife's approval or knowledge, when she found out she would be hurt and think there was something wrong with her or that he thought there was something wrong with her, and that she didn't meet his needs.




ok guys, realistically, ask your wives if it is ok with her for you to masturbate... l would dare say that she would wonder "ok, whats wrong with me that he would rather masturbate that make love with me"?
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3/1/08 9:31 pm


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Post Re: Not sure if this has been mentioned Dave Dorsey
Memory03 wrote:
ok guys, realistically, ask your wives if it is ok with her for you to masturbate... l would dare say that she would wonder "ok, whats wrong with me that he would rather masturbate that make love with me"?

Mem, for my part, I would never want to when the real thing was just a bit away. I was talking specifically about times when the two were apart for an extended period of time, or in a case such as the one Pastor Gary described. I think in the manner you describe it's certainly defrauding one's spouse to enjoy something without them.
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3/1/08 9:39 pm


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Post Re: Not sure if this has been mentioned Memory03
tripsD wrote:
Memory03 wrote:
ok guys, realistically, ask your wives if it is ok with her for you to masturbate... l would dare say that she would wonder "ok, whats wrong with me that he would rather masturbate that make love with me"?

Mem, for my part, I would never want to when the real thing was just a bit away. I was talking specifically about times when the two were apart for an extended period of time, or in a case such as the one Pastor Gary described. I think in the manner you describe it's certainly defrauding one's spouse to enjoy something without them.




there is no substitute for the "real thing"...
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